Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Figures you would start the unsuccessful hunting note, Earl!  Just
    kidding.  Don't rub it in with the 9 hunters and 3100 ACRES, not
    acreAs.  It's alright.  Going out this weekend with the shadman for
    some buck only hunting.  Ready to take out "Francesca" into the mudhole
    to bring out your bigun!
    
    bob
    keep huntin
    

    You want unsuccessful, 
    	Eight men, all good hunters/woodsmen travel  16 hrs to Nova
    Scotia's trophy hunting ground Cape Bretton Island.....and get
    skunked!!!
    	1st time in 10yrs,,the lowest harvest was 3 does for 5 hunters 2
    yrs ago (I got one that year).
    	Although the hunt was unsuccessful I had a great vacation.  The
    bucks will be that much bigger next year!!!!!!
    
    Jim-who-still-waits-for-Quabbin
    

Jim,

Any sightings at least? Hunting the big woods can be tough...feast or famine!
I would think though with 8 hunters, there for a week somebody
must have at least caught a glimpse.....maybe even choked up a little?

Barry

    Barry,
    
    The deer were definately there. All total, the group saw only 6, 4 does
    and 2 bucks. I saw 10, 9 does and one fork, last year myself. I think
    the total was like 25 sightings last year.
    
    2 people missed deer this year as opposed to 4 misses last year, but we
    all seemed to connect, brought home 7.
    
    So yes, some of us choked or didn't shoot :^(  , but it was a great way
    to spend a week off.
    
    Well I'll tell you the story about the "non-shooting hunter"  That's
    what the gang has renamed me.  It was around 11:00am opening day, and I
    was waiting to pick up Ron where I had dropped him off. He was about
    20mins late so I figured he was dragging one out. I drove my pick-up to
    the top off the field to get a better veiw, no Ron,,,,but hey, is that
    a deer at the far corner??????  I jump out of the truck, load the gun,
    and throw it up across the hood. It's a small doe, around 85lbs, about
    250yds away. The doe looks at me, and continues to graze.  Well I
    decide I should take a shot (that was what I had come all this way
    for!), but I didn't want the ejected shell to crack the winshield. So I
    walk to the back of the truck, open the cap and put down the tail-gate.
    Here I am, on a perfect rest with a decent shot,,,,,,,but its opening
    day, and thats a small doe,,,a long ways away from what I'm comfortable
    with. But you never know how the rest of the week will go, so I click
    the safety off,,,,,,BOOM!!!!  Hold on,,,I didn't pull the trigger,
    Who's shooting at my deer?????? I look up from the scope, no orange,
    BOOM, the doe raises her flag and bounds into the thick stuff.
    
    I stand up to see who, and where the shots were coming from. At the far
    top corner of the field is Ron, I should have guessed. When he was
    walking out to meet me, he spotted the doe also, but was a good 400yds
    away. He crawled through the woods to get around 150yds when he saw the
    doe getting jumpy, thought it was going to bolt so he fired. He was
    only on his stomach in a bush, he stuck the gun out of the bush a
    looked down his scope, he said the deer was upside-down cause his eye
    was about 1 foot back from the gun.  Needless to say he missed.
    
    Tom missed a 6 point from the front seat of his truck, we haven't
    figured that one out :^)
    
    Well I hope it tickled your funny bone, we had a great laugh.
    
    Jim
    

Well,

You can cut my shirttail off. I blew it yesterday. I was hunting some excellent
buck sign in Peterboro NH, and was curious to try the new grunt call I
just bought (Lohman call). On the way into the woods, I spooked 3 does, so I
knew it was going to be interestin'. At about 9:30, I scared another deer
into the swamp. So I blew a few short, low grunts, and lo and behold, the deer
turns around and comes toward me, and it's a nice 6 or 8 pointer with a thick
little basket rack ! He then put some thick brush between us and stopped 45
yards out. I didn't realize until later that he was on a scraped-up main 
deer trail, and I was on a secondary trail. I aimed at him for several minutes
and got the shakes, somewhat. He never presented the shot I wanted, and I
finally took a broadside at him through the brush, with my 12 Ga. slug. I 
should NOT have taken it. I think it hit some branches. Anyway, I missed him
cleanly. After making sure he was not wounded, I moved on.  As I got further 
out towards the road, I saw another deer sneaking away. I used the grunt
again, and this deer, also, turned towards me. Then, as I was aiming, a big
doe jumped up and scared the other deer away, so I didn't get a shot.

All in all, it was my best day out this year !  I really am impressed with 
the grunt call, at least for bringing back deer that you may have spooked.
I think many times, they run off, but don't really know if it's danger or not.
In these cases, the call can certainly turn them around. I will also use it
(sparingly) around all the scrapes I found.

Dave

      Opening day was Saturday, and the three of us that usually hunt
    together (my Dad, my brother-in-law, and I) and one other guy (a
    friend of mine, and an ex-DECcie) who has hunted with us only a few 
    times headed out.  We posted my buddy, who didn't know the area very 
    well, at the end of a ridge on a power line, because if we push some-
    thing off that ridge, 9 times out of 10, it will cross right there.
    About 10:00 I spotted a deer up on the ridge, but never got a look
    at the head.  We just had a brief snow squall, so the ground was a
    little white.  I waited for my brother-in-law (we were supposed to
    meet at the top of the ridge at a certain time), and my plan was to
    pick up the tracks and follow the deer down the ridge.  A few minutes
    later I heard a shot, but it didn;t sound like it came from the power
    lines.  Finally he showed up and I picked up the track.  Sure enough,
    it headed straight for the power line.  The deer went within 20yds
    of the power line, then stopped and turned away, headed back along the 
    base of the ridge.  Turns out, my friend had gotten cold and bored and
    decided to walk a little farther up the power line.  As close as we can
    figure, that was just about the time the deer was headed down the ridge.
    It must have seen him walking, and it turned the other way.  I followed
    the track, and there was a guy gutting out a spike horn.... the one I
    had pushed to him.
    
      Later that day, my friend got another chance, and connected.  Another
    spike horn, 117lbs.  This was only his second deer, and he was unsure
    of how to gut it.  I helped him out, then helped him drag it.  Tough
    drag, almost 3 hours.  Had to drag it uphill for about 500yds, then
    down a tough hill to the road.  No snow on the ground to help either.
    Didn't get back to the truck until 4:30, so my whole afternoon was
    wasted.
    
      Real noisy in the woods yesterday.  Jumped 3 deer, but never got a 
    look at them.  Saw lots of moose sign down low.  Headed for the top of
    the ridge around 2:00 or so.  Came across a fresh pile of moose drop-
    pings and a *real* large bed.  Walked about 50 more yards and it sound-
    ed like a heard of elephants.... turned out to be 2 moose!!  Both were
    cows, and both were large!!  Got within 50yds of them before they ran.
    Even then, they didn't run too far.  Talked to another hunter later 
    in the day.  He says there is a large bull up there too.  That was 
    fun... not something you see in the woods of Vermont everyday.  In 
    fact, I have only seen one other moose in the woods.
    
      Calling for snow tonight, so I might have to take tomorrow off....
    We'll see...
    
    -Ron-

    Went hunting up in Littleton NH and saw several doe but couldn't shoot
    them(County I was in prohibited shooting doe w/rifle). Got into woods
    and bedding area around 4:15AM(about 3/4 mile in). On the return,
    around 7:30, partner and I were walking on very old cart road heading
    towards an incline into pine area. My partnet was about 6 feet in front
    of me but about 4 feet to my left. He was walking with him head looking
    off to the left when a spotted a 6 pointer about 15 feet in front of
    us. I picked up my rifle, scoped the buck, and saw very very small
    patch of orange through the 1.75X5 32MM wide angle TROPHY scope. With
    safety still on , I dropped my barrel. By this time, my partner's
    periferial(sp) vision spotted my barrel and buck. He looked up in
    excitement, raised his rifle, scoped the buck and CLICK..!@#$%%^^&. In
    all his excitement, he had left his safety on. 
    
    Later on , Pi**ed off at himself, he asked why I hadn't shot and I
    answered , as a first time hunter, I NEVER want to be spoken about as
    the guy that likes shooting over/beside someones head. I missed my
    first buck and feel VERY good about getting home without another
    accident statistic in NH woods. They're(bucks) out there and I'll get
    one. After reading/hearing the horror stories from local yocals and
    these NOTES, I feel REAL good about practicing sadfety with guns and
    good hunting practices....
    
    Happy hunting...
    
    
    
                                                           john

>>                       <<< Note 1218.7 by ROYALT::MAY >>>
>>                              -< I missed one... >-

>>    us. I picked up my rifle, scoped the buck, and saw very very small
>>    patch of orange through the 1.75X5 32MM wide angle TROPHY scope. With
>>    safety still on , I dropped my barrel. By this time, my partner's
    
>>    Later on , Pi**ed off at himself, he asked why I hadn't shot and I
>>    answered , as a first time hunter, I NEVER want to be spoken about as
>>    the guy that likes shooting over/beside someones head. I missed my
>>    first buck and feel VERY good about getting home without another
    
    john,

	You done good.  No deer's worth taking a chance of shooting
	someone.  And if your partner was a bit in front of you, he
	might have even stepped in your line of fire at the last moment.
	I hope your partner thanked you and appreciates you safety
	mindedness.

    Jerry

	John, I agree 100% with Jerry, you did the only right thing.

	I am always scared to death about accidents happening. One
	example: when you still hunt, I really don't like walking
	with my gun cocked and the safety on. Safeties have been 
	known to fail x numbers of times, and after the safety is
	gone, there is only 2-3 lbs of pressure between a nice day
	out and a disaster. I know it is difficult to still hunt
	without carrying the gun cocked, but I try to avoid it
	at all costs. Some guns (only bolt actions that cock on
	opening) will allow you to lower the handle on the cartridge
	just a notch. That way the cocking piece is still supported 
	by the bolt body (not by the sear). If you pull the trigger
	in this condition the mainspring will fall harmlessly if the
	bolt is closed. This is far from a perfect system, still
	things can go wrong. My one Sako will allow me to put the
	safety on in the "notch only position" and thus give me 
	one more system as backup.

	The best safety: don't chamber a round till you need to
	shoot, but unfortunately chambering a round can be pretty
	noisy and some situations call for a quick shot...

	FWIW						- Mike

    
    	Yes you did the right thing.  I'd like to add another comment about
    safety's - You should check it periodically throughout the day.  While
    hunting in some heavy slash this past weekend, I happened to check the
    safety on my rifle and found it in the FIRE position!  Speaks for good
    muzzle control...
    
    - Rob

    
    While sitting on a stump this saturday in Maine with my brother,
    talking about not bagging any deer this year in Maine and hoping
    to have better luck in Mass.  My brother suddenly stands up and
    fires his 7mm out over this swamp that must be 300 yards wide!
    I thought he had gone nuts! "What the @$!* are you shooting at"
    He just said "Come help me drag out my buck."  We hiked around to
    the other side and there was a 6 point 185 pounder with a hole
    thrugh its chest. I couldn't have made a shoot like that standing
    and open sights, but my brother has always been a fantastic shot.
    In the last 15 years that we've hunted together, I've helped him
    drag out 14 of his deer and he has help drag out 5 of mine.
    
    Tim

    RE .8,.9.10
    
    I carry my MArlin 336CS("double safety) .35REM chambered with a round
    and the safety ON both still and moving. The gun also has the second 
    safety where the hammer will not hit the pin(HOPEFULLY). I learned gun 
    safety as a P.O. and will ALWAYS carry those rules into the woods. If I
    see even a dot of orange/red, I WILL NOT fire a SHOT...
    
    
    
    				Happy hunting...john
    

    QUESTION?
    	All this talk about hunter safety makes me wonder how in the world
    any of the 'accidents' happen.  Do you?
    
    	While in Nova Sotia I tried to sneak up on 2 does that were on the
    edge of a field. Took half an hour to get near the edge. I was actually
    crawling on my hands and knees through the nastiest stuff you can
    imagine, trying not to make a sound. Well it might have worked had the
    deer still been in the field. I was about 30 yds from the edge when
    right in front of me two animals tore out from the thickest stuff.  The
    animals were only 10 yds in front of me.  The reason I use the term
    animals is because I couldn't make out what they were. I'm almost
    positive it was the 2 does crawling into the woods, but it could have
    been my buddy who dropped me off, another hunter, two little kids
    playing,,,,,and so on.
    
    
    
    Jim
    

    Well it happened again yesterday. A 60 year old hunter was shot in
    Francestown yesterday by a 24 year old hunter whose name has not been
    released. The 60 year old man was hunting in a field around dusk on the
    northern slopes of Crotched Mt. ski area. It wasn't mentioned yet that
    if the two were hunting together. The 60 year old man died this
    morning. That makes 3 shooting accidents this year for N.H. with 2
    fatalities. He was shot in the stomach. I hope this is the end of it
    this year. 
    							Bret

    
    I'm not a resident of N.H. so I don't know their laws but do they
    have a hunter safety law that requires X-amount of blaze orange?
    
    Walt

    re: .15
    
    Walt,
    
    	I was just up in NH last week during rifle season, got skunked. 
    The hunting rules & regulation booklet they hand you when you pick up
    your liscense states that it "recommends" you wear hunter orange. 
    Therefore, if you don't want to wear it then it's up to you.  I chose
    to look like a 6ft day-glo orange popsicle when I was out there,
    even though the area we were in had hardly any hunters.
    
    Ken

    
    NH does not have a hunter orange requirement, they periodically
    try and pass one.
    
    With the mentality of some of the NH hunters, there won't be one.
    I ran into a guy at the end of the day Saturday, who had seen a 
    big bull moose. He was up in a tree stand in all camo and a red
    hat. He was complaining that the moose had seen the hat and went the
    other way, says he can't wear orange since all the deer see him when
    they are along ways off.
    
    --Bob
    

    Well, I went out Saturday morning and Monday all day and here's what
    happened.
    
    Saturday(opening day gun) I went over to a friends farm and setup by
    a pipeline that is cut through a cedar thicket.  About 8:00 3 does
    cross the line about 100 yards down.  At 8:30 an 8 pointer, about a
    12" spread walks by at 25 yards, sniffing the ground in hot pursuit.
    I am looking for quality so I let him pass.  About 8:45 3 does cross
    about 50 yards.  At 8:50, 3 more does cross about 25 yards.  The 6 
    does make a circle around me and continue to browse.  At 10am by
    friend shows up and wants to still hunt a section of woods where he
    took an 18" spread on opening of bow season.  I am standing there
    taking a whiz and catch movement about 30 yards up the hill.  We
    are standing in an open pasture when a small 11" spread 6 point comes
    out of the woods down the hill 9 yards from us.  I said "bang" and
    the deer just looked up, turned around and walked away.  We both
    cracked up.  the deer crossed the pipeline jumped the fence on the
    neighbors property and was shot about 5 minutes later.  
    
    We then worked the section of woods slowly and a saw 3 does from about
    20 yards.  I was waiting on the edge of the thick stuff when a look 
    over and see a buck coming right at me.  He had his nose to the ground
    and walked within 10 feet of me.  He was a 7 point with about a 12"
    spread.  I was lying on the ground so he just looked at me stomped a
    few times and continued around me.  I blew my grunt when he was about
    30 yards past and he turned around and came back within 10 yards of
    me.  He finally left.  I couldn't believe he came so close.
    
    Monday morning I went to a differnt farm and eased into the woods about
    an hour before light.  I setup on a logging road that had 3 scrapes
    about 40 yards down from me.  I heard a deer come in and work the
    scrape, I kept saying "Come on Daylight"!  Another deer came in and
    chased the first off.  Then several more passed by about 30 yards. 
    Will it ever get light?  It was just starting to twinkle daylight when
    the deer went down through the woods and crossed the fence(posted
    land).  I waited until 12:00 without seeing anything and decided to
    stillhunt up to the clover field.  I found a 5 point shed 10 yards
    below the scrapes and a ton of deer droppings.  I eased up the point
    and a spike and a doe stood up about 15 yards from me.  I stopped and
    the spike layed back down but the doe had me pegged.  They ran across
    the field and I heard a couple of shots.  I then eased back to my
    original position and waited until dark.  About 5 minutes before dark I
    heard what sounded like a moose jumping the fence.  I think it was the
    same deer that went over before daylight.  Oh well, I will let him
    fatten up until Saturday!
    
    Good luck
    Wess

    re .17   The mentality of alot of hunters from states other than N.H.
    isn't any better. In 1980 I got shot at from a Mass. hunter in N.H.
    claiming he heard a sound so he shot at me. I was wearing hunter
    orange. It isn't just N.H. Since then I have changed to red with an
    orange hat. Maybe it's coincidence, but I haven't had anything remotely
    happen to me like before. I have always been a strong advocate of
    hunter safety courses but in N.H. all you need is a previous license to
    get a non-resident hunting license, and since some states don't require
    hunter safety classes to get a license, we get alot of nuts up here.
    Two seasons ago on opening day some Mass. hunters called up WGIR in
    Manchester requesting the deercamp song and claiming the whole time
    that they had been drinking since 3:00AM. Things like that scare the
    hell out of me. It's too bad all states don't require a hunter safety
    education. But then some people would probably just go through teh
    motions anyways. I know I'll probably get blasted for this but so what,
    it's my opinion. I know I haven't run into some of the mentality you
    are talking about that are natives to N.H. Thats doesn't mean they are
    not out there. But I have seen more than my share of idiots from out of
    state. I have been a lifelong resident of N.H. and will probably end it
    here also.
    							Bret

            RE:18
    
              An eight pointer isn't quality?!?!?  In what state are
    you hunting?  I'm hunting New Hampshire and am still upset about
    missing a six pointer AND a spike-horn with the muzzleloader last
    week...........
    
                   Sigh,
    
                      Bob

    RE:20
    
    
        Two shots in New Hampshire? Bucks to boot! Were are you hunting in N.H.?
    ?? Iv'e only seen one and couldnt shoot at it because it was too dark.
    
       Double sigh,
                   Gus ;')                         

    Bob,
    
    I am hunting Kentucky.  The eight pointer didn't have the spread or
    mass.  I shot a doe last month with my bow and now I am hunting one
    that has at least a 16" or better spread with considerable mass.
    We stopped shooting small bucks a couple of years ago and my friends
    farm has really improved.  I took an 18" spread 8 point with decent
    mass and he has taken several that size or larger.  It is a private
    farm of 250 acres with 3 of us hunting.  If we want meat we pop a doe
    so the young bucks have a chance to grow to a nice size.  
    
    The other farm is also private with 150 acres, to my knowledge I am
    the only one with permission on it.  I am trying the same "management"
    on it as well.  I have been lucky enough to harvest several bucks in
    the last couple of years from this farm that exceeded the 16" mark.
    Nothing to write home about, but still respectable.  
    
    Muzzleloading sure is fun isn't it!
    
    Good luck to all,
    Wess

    
    
       Well we are into our second week of gun season here in upstate NY, I
    hunted the first day, from 5:30 am till 5:00 pm on stand and I never
    saw a deer! this was the first time I have ever not seen a deer the
    first day of gun season! includeing the 3 years of NH hunting.
     
       The first day really stunk, we got about a foot of snow where I hunt
    at and there was about 4" on all the tree limbs so visibility was very
    bad till about 1:00 pm. I was soaked by 7:30 am from all the snow
    falling off the tree I was in. but I stuck it out in that tree till
    dark. and there was very little shooting around me. 
    
       I was hunting the same area I bowhunted in and I had seen plenty of
    deer, I saw a monster nontypical one evening, and ten minutes after it
    left I had 15 deer walk by me and 4 of them were bucks! the following 
    morning I watched a 7 point rub his horns for close to 20 minutes
    before he turned around and walked away.
    
       Then I was on the road for a couple days and didnt get to hunt any
    till saturday, so I went to a different DMU area and took a good
    visibility stand, well there was shooting all around me, what the heck
    they were shooting at I dont know because I finally saw my first deer
    at 11:35 am.
      I was setting about 50 yards above a pine grove right on an old fence
    row of oak trees, I heard a LOUD snap about 60 yards away, I figured
    well that has to be a hunter so I took another bite of my cherry pie
    and as I am waiting for the person to step out this deer bolts out 
    of there like a cannon shot. All I did was watch it run out through the
    woods I figured there is now way I will hit that sucker with the
    shotgun so I am not going to waste shells trying to hit it.
     it was kinda funny how it happened and I still think that I did the 
    right thing by not picking up the gun and pointing it towards the sound
    of the snapping branch, but I dont know why she bolted there was no way 
    she saw me, or smelled me because there was a good 20 mph wind in my
    face, I think she scared herself when she broke that branch.
    
       So now my hunting time depends on our plans for T day, the wife
    wants to go home I do too but I want to stay and hunt too, I am not 
    good at giving up my hunting time, I mean heck we only get 2.5 months
    to hunt so with work and all I dont get to be out much, and the deer
    definatly are not very cooporative this year at all.
    
       Well I am off to Pa again in mid dec. for doe season so I got some
    extra tags for there, should be interesting. 
    
    
    
                                                   Lee
    

 Well now this *is* a note I can get into... :-)

 Last week in Maine, where Does run free and don't need to worry about 
getting shot;;;;;

 First morning - Jumped 3 Does less than 20 yards away. Any one of them would 
have been an easy shot. Saw nothing the rest of the day.

 Second morning - Entered corner of swamp and had a staring contest with 2 
Does about 20 yards away that lasted over 5 minutes. As hard as I tried, I 
couldn't grow horns on either one of them. :-)After about 7 - 8 minutes they 
nanchalantly walked back further into the swamp.

 11:30 same day on stand less than 600 yards from first encounter - 3 does
walk out of Balsam fir scrub and just stand there 30 feet in front of me.
Wind was in my face so they didn't wind me and I guess they couldn't see me
either as this encounter lasted for almost 20 minutes. I'm going nuts 
scanning with my eyes hoping there was a Buck with them still in the fir 
tree scrub but not this time.
Finally the tail end Doe's head turned towards the right, her ears perked, 
she screeched and all 3 spooked and ran off.

 Oh well... :-) No Doe permit so no shots at any of them.

 Next day about 11:30 jumped a *hugh* buck. Had all of 2 seconds to nail him 
before he vanished. He was quicker than I was and I didn't even get off a 
shot. I suppose I could have "sound shot" as he was crashing away through 
the brush but that ethical.

 Maybe next year... :-)

    I hate to post an entry in this note !
    
    After bow hunting for about 5 years, I finally got a shot at a buck
    on the last day of archery season in Mass.   I was hunting in Beartown
    State Forest, off exit 2 of the Mass Pike.   Great conditions, about 
    2 inches of fresh snow.  I was leaning against a large pine tree,
    watching a crossing into a swamp.  After about an hour, I took a
    quick glance behind me and the buck was walking directly toward me,
    and with the wind.   I though they weren't supposed to do that..
    He was about 15 yards away when he spotted me. Anyway, he turned and ran
    off a few yards to stop behind some brush.
    I could make out most of him and decided to take the shot. My arrow
    hit a limb.  End of story.
    
    I'll try again next week as I have a doe permit for shotgun season.
    Corky - that scope you mounted on my Ithaca never misses - right ?
       

    
    re: - .1 
    	About bucks walking with the wind - bucks do this a great deal,
    more than you would imagine.  As a matter of fact, just before a buck
    lays down, he'll frequently walk for a while with the wind so he can
    smell his backtrail.
    
    fwiw, Rob

    I'm reluctant to relate this, I'de really rather forget this whole
    story but it might be a catharsis to get it out.  Our party of six in
    the U.P. became a party of two when most of the others saw the weather
    forcast.
    
    Day 1: arrived in Ottawa National Forest in DMU #10 at 2:20pm, three
    hours daylight left.  Randy picked this spot as he saw a massive buck
    the day before and jumped 3-4 does that afternoon.  It is warm but a
    cold front is supposed to be arriving tommorow.   We did not see any
    deer today.
    
    Day 2: The front is stalled.  It is very windy and and 48 degrees.  The
    five inches of snow is vanishing rapidly.  Nothing in the beds and no
    new tracks or sign anywhere.  I found six to eight rubs and four
    scrapes in the aftennoon scout session.  No deer to be seen anywhere.
    
    Day 3:  Full moon last night, still up at 4am.  Looks like daybreak out
    there.  Leave very early for a stand I set up yesterday.  Something
    large moves off into the poplar/alder thicket about fifty yards ahead
    of me.  After 30 minutes of still/waiting I get in the tree.  Not a
    sign of anything by 9:30am (five hours in the stand)  Get down check
    the sign of the noise I heard.  Still some snow in the Alder thicket
    and heavy hemlock cover bordering it.  "Bear Tracks!"  Big ones too!
    Back out of there and think it over.  thought these boys were denned up
    by now.  I don't have a bear tag and am not into stalking this cover
    with a bow.
    
    Worked south between Muskeg and Stone lakes across the saddle and into
    more heavy cover.  The wind is still strong but temp is coming down
    fast.  Its about 35 by noon.  At 1:30pm it starts to snow.  By 2pm I
    cant see more than 50yds.  I'm almost two miles in and it would be easy to
    get lost.  So out comes the topo map and compass.  After a few wrong
    guesses, find the saddle ridge and back to Stone lake.
    
    Found a gully at the edge of heavy hemlock cover and dropped in between
    two stumps.  3pm and snowing hard.  grab a little shuteye (It has been
    eleven hours in the woods now) and it is getting gloomy by 4pm with the
    heavy snow fall.  Crack! to my east...there goes a large deer (finally)
    50yds away in the clear but out of range.  wind is sw so I'm ok for
    now. Pop, crack to the west, shapes moving but cannot make out what it
    is even with the binoc's.  What's that in the heavy cover only 12-14yds
    away.  Jeez, every stump looks like a deer in the gloom.  Crack, thump
    to the east.  Damn, another one...BUCK!, again too far 45-50yds.  
    
    Peripheral vision catches movement, look left (west) quickly. 
    Somethings wrong, NO STUMP?!?  what?  There it is ten feet furthur
    south and it has a white tail that is vertical.  I've been had! This
    big boy jumps fifteen yards away in a single bound and then looks me
    over.  I am dowwind and only head and shoulders is above ground level. 
    I give him a grunt and the tail drops and he walks away. Four pointer.
    About 200lbs of four pointer.  5pm (central) and it is dark.  I have
    inadvertanly found a major thoroughfare from thicket (bedding) to
    feeding area.  Should be good morning and evening.  Randy shot at a
    medium doe but missed.  We found no trace of blood or arrow.
    
    DAY 4:  4:30am 12inches of snow on the ground, still coming down
    25degrees and 20mph winds.  Spooked two deer from my stand on the way
    in 4:45 is not early enough?  At about 6am in comes a small doe, about
    100lbs, use my permit on this? Well why not.  Full draw and hold, and
    hold.  Doesn't feel right, the shot passes as the deer moves on and I
    let down.  Now why did I do that?  Scouted the thickets western edge
    today, found several beds.  Went to my second stand found fresh tracks,
    It is snowing so heavily that fresh is less than 1/2 hour.  We have
    18inches by 9am.
    
    Went back towards the thick and a large doe jumps from cover 15yds away
    as I freeze.  At the end of the first bound she freezes not quite sure
    where I am.  I am quartering the wind and the deep snow muffles all
    sound.  She say the initial movement and cant find me now.  I go to
    full draw.  She sees this and looks right down the arrow shaft.  This
    time I get the feeling "It's not right!"  After about two minutes she
    moves off and I let down.  Can't explain it but it was the right thing
    to do.
    
    I am reflecting on this later 1pm when another doe steps out of dense
    hemlock cover looking the other way.  As a draw on her, my arrow makes
    a great deal of racket and she bounds away without looking before I can
    even get the bow up.  Ice crystal lumps all down the shaft.  Thats a
    new problem.    Moved back to my 1st stand and spooked another deer
    out of the area.  Nothing shows by dark.  At camp Randy is dressing a
    button buck he got a 3pm.
    
    Day5: 16deg and 26 inches of snow and its still coming down!  Artic
    hunting?  Nothing on my first stand by 8am and I am out of there.  I
    have pushed too many off and they have changed routes.  On my way to
    the second I cross a swale and trip over a log buried under two feet of
    snow and take a header into the stuff.  Get up spitting the stuff our
    and talking loadly at the damn log (you know mostly #@$%##) tow steps
    later and a good sized doe followed closely by a six point charge out
    into the swale about 40yards away crossing right to left in front of
    me.  I can't believe that.  they could have gone anywhere in the cover
    and I would never have seen them.  They were moving though.
    
    I found a large scrape that looked like grand central station right
    where they came from.  Looks like mister buck's meat market meeting
    place.  Good set of cluster oaks about 15yds away quartering away from
    the wind.  Alright a new stand.  drive in the steps and climb up
    pulling the stand after me.  get up about 20ft and set the stand up
    (none too quietly).  Step up on it and look around.  Could go up about
    6ft more.  Why not?  Look across the swale and here comes mister six! 
    There's my bow on the ground!  Well, let him get close and only watch
    or go for it......Go for it.  He spots the first move and I freeze, he
    moves behind an evergreen and I'm down the tree like a flash. 
    needless to say I never saw him again.   That Evening nothing shows.
    Back at camp Randy is dressing out #2.  At this point something clicks
    and all of sudden it is competition.  
    
    From there on in it is all downhill, I've got the jitters, can't sit,
    don't trust my instincts and feel time is getting away from me.  I
    walked all day often repeating the same routes, sometimes finding the
    deer are using my trail as it easier going in the 30inches of new snow. 
    It feels like end of quarter deadline and I'm not going to make my
    goals (yeecchh, got to get of this place.)
    
    I did.  got back to the camp, without knowing what I was going to do. 
    Then the problem was solved.  Seems my back tag came off in the thicket
    and my passbook and archery/gun/bonus tags are all gone.  Time to go
    home.
    
    What happened? I honestly am not sure.  But the next time I go hunting,
    if I go, it will be alone because there are some questions I have to
    find answers for.
    
     

    Great note.
    
    
                      <<< Note 1218.27 by GLDOA::ROGERS >>>
                      -< Michigan Wilderness Experience >-

    
>    What happened? I honestly am not sure.  But the next time I go hunting,
>    if I go, it will be alone because there are some questions I have to
>    find answers for.
    
     This is precisely why I prefer to hunt alone.  I've been on the fence 
    about (deer in particular) hunting for several years now, and being in 
    the woods alone allows me to reflect on why I'm there.  It also allows
    me to learn about nature, become dependent on my own abilities to react
    to the terrain and weather conditions, and basically develop my hunting
    and woodsmanship skills on my own terms. 
    
    Mark.
     

    

    Well, I took the old flintlock out on Saturday morning and came home
    skunked.  I arrived before 1st light and decided to take the first
    decent doe that I saw(I want to hunt rabbits, quail, etc).  I setup on
    a dirt road that cuts through a woodlot where it took a 90degree angle.
    There are 3 main crossings in about a 150yard stretch so I felt pretty
    good about placement.  The wind was perfect and about 1/2 hour after
    daylight I saw 4 does pop out of the farthest crossing.  They were
    about 100 yards or so up the hill, I decided to let them get closer. 
    I had the gun up and about ready to shoot when I heard what sounded
    like a train coming through the woods.  The deer shot into the brush
    and were gone.  I turned around to see about 5 horses/riders come
    barreling 15 yards right by me.  Horses went by for about 5 minutes, I
    guessed about 70 of them.  The landowner was having some kind of a
    time trial horsrace.  GREAT!
    
    I decided to move and crossed over into a cedar thicket which led to
    their bedding areas.  I eased up to the edge and heard BOOM!  Since it
    was posted land it kind of made me mad.  Then another BOOM!  I sat
    there cussing whoever it was about 100 yards over the hill from me.
    I didn't feel like pursuing the tresspasser(I only had 1 more hour to
    hunt).  I then saw movement about 65 yards through the cedars and made
    out 3 hen turkeys coming my way.  I laid down on the ground and they
    came within 15 yards of me.  It was really neat.  I just hope whoever
    shot wasn't shooting at them.  
    
    I then eased back around the woodlot and jumped a large doe about 40
    yards from me.  She was running broadside through fairly thick stuff,
    but I decided to take a shot.  Of course I missed.  After the shot I
    looked over and a big doe stood up right where the first had taken off
    from.  I never loaded that thing that fast in my life, all but the
    flash pan that is.  I scrambled for the priming powder and she just
    trotted over the hill.  Oh well, you win some, and you lose alot more.
    
    Of course there is always tomorrow.....
    
    Wess

    Man, you can sure tell that deer hunting season must be coming to
    an end.  This notesfile is starting its annual slow down.  Well, today
    is my last day of work for 1992.  THANK GOD!!!  Am going to Indiana for
    Christmas.  I am going to freeze my a@@ off.  I saw the weather last 
    night, and they said that on Thursday, the high will be in the teens.
    The crap I do for my wife sometimes.
    
    It's ok though, because I get back to Georgia, Gods country, on sunday
    night, and the bonus week of hunting season will be in effect.  I
    already told my wife that the week of bonus week, I will be a memory
    to her.  Already planning to spend maximum time in the stand.  And the
    good thing is, it's either sex hunting.  
    
    I wish you all a safe and happy holiday season.  Hope there is some
    hunting stuff under the tree for you.  Good luck to all those that
    still have a hunting season.  And to those that don't, how many more
    days until the opener?
    
    Happy new year, talk to you in 1993.  Geez.  Hope to have another input
    in .270
    
    
    happy huntin,
    bob
    

    twenty-two feet up a golden birch just to the north of the alder
    thicket bedding.  Wind is from the south, off Stone lake.  Just
    perfect.  It is 8 degrees, and every branch is loaded with snow.  Even
    the lightest breeze results in a snap of failure somewhere in the
    forest behind.  
    
    Zero hour approaches.  At 5:00pm the light changes from late afternoon
    to deepening twilight in about 15min.  You know the time.....its when
    the patriarchs appear, the only time they appear.
    
    A flicker of movement to the northeast.  Some largish bird wings into
    the area to the east (my left) and disappears from view (behind my
    tree).  Gloom deepens rapidly.  Without warning, two large hoots
    directly behind me.  Since I am on adrenaline now, I nearly jump out of
    my skin.  What the heck!  Take a peek around the tree.  Can't see a
    thing, but owls fly silently.   Just twisted back to the south
    when....thud,  thud crunch, crunch, chrunch.   Then a very loud snort.
    
    I get it now.....Owl spots deer, owl hoots at deer, hunter tries to see
    owl.  Deer spots hunter looking for owl.  Yes there is a rack, yes it
    is heavy wide beams, probably mister ten, certainly bigger than mister
    six or four in earlier notes.  Try again on the way back. (business
    trip to Minneapolis via Michigan's U.P.)
    

    Its Friday, that last day on earth.   Might as well be this is probably
    it for the season.  Down the logging trail 1.3 miles to Stone lake
    vicinity.  What's this, someone has plowed out my parking place!  I did
    talk to the loggers several times in the last month and I always park
    in the same place.  guess this is U.P. hopsitiality.
    
    I have a forestry seal for an Xmas tree, so "hunt" and harvest that
    first.  It is only 1pm.  Find a really nice eight foot Balsam Fir.  Bag
    and drag and tie to roof.  Now back to the alder thicket.
    
    It's 2:20pm and I've have seen deer come out from the bedding around
    three pm, so impatience gets the upper hand and in we go.  Eleven
    degrees above zero, very light wind, from the south.  New snow last
    night and tracks everywhere including three brand new scrapes.  Got to
    be running out of does pretty soon.
    
    From 2:45 to 5:00pm nothing.  I have not moved.  My bow is hanging from
    the tree hook and my hands are under my armpits and it is getting
    COLD.   Right at zero hour, there I am with hands under arms and
    several deer approaching the edge of the thicket.  When they pass
    behind the intervening evergreen, I unrap......a soft rip of frozen
    clothing separating, you know, arms coming away from body.
    
    It is enough for the matriarch.  She stomps her foot and everybody
    stops.  I am in shooting position.  It will pass.  I am down wind and
    down trail.  patience will pay.   One of the smaller does, (about
    150lbs) starts forward,  matriarch stomps foot again, they freeze
    again.  Matriarch moves  to the west off the trail into deep snow and
    reappears on the other side of stand of pines about 35yds away.  The
    other two are only fifteen yds but still in cover.  
    
    Can I turn the 120degrees to shoot?  She is facing away and is due
    west.  Wind is from the south.  I do not believe that it can be done
    without spooking the near two so let the shot go.  They are watching
    Matriarch move north.  She begins to circle in to the east now and her
    plan becomes apparent.  Get downwind of strangeness and smell it out.
    
    I am concerned.  The breeze is very light and inconsistant.  But deer
    have formidable sense of smell.  The two smaller ones bound after the
    matriarch, not in panic, but just to be close.  Matriarch arrives
    downwind and I get two snorts, then three more.  Five minutes and three 
    more.  Followed by five or six short ones that have always signaled 
    departure.  
    
    Lesson: don't get there early in severe weather,  You need to be at
    peak when the moment arrives.  Don't forget watch next time.  Be ready
    before arrival.  pretty basic huh?  Discipline and patience.  

    Please define:  "peak moment" ?
    
    I'd like to know, so I don't mess up the next time either!!!
    
    Mike

    I guess this would come from scouting the area thoroughly.  At this
    stand, at this time of year, in this season, the deer ALWAYS come
    precisely at 15 min prior to full darkness.  So figure the sunset time
    and add 20-25 minutes and you had better be ready.  
    
    Unlike the lower penninsula where there is a great deal of background
    noise (trucks, cars, aircraft, dirtbikes, fourwheelers, etc.), up here
    there is nothing.  You can literally hear woodpeckers several hundred
    yards away.  When a raven flies by, you hear the wingbeats.  Squirrels
    sound like a moose in the woods.  There is no cover noise.
    
    So "peak moment" for me is about 15-20min in the stand when you have
    feet positioned to cover the trail.  Bow in hand, release clipped on,
    and very, very alert.  This is hard to maintain for long periods but
    30min should be no problem.   In cold weather, I don't want to be
    shivering away with numb feet and toes.  I have the best cold weather
    stuff but 3-4 hours motionless is to much to ask.  I should have gone
    to the tree at 4-4:15pm.
    
    /bob

    This is a successful unsuccessful hunting story.
    
    This morning I got on my stand around 9:45 am.  At 10:20 I saw
    something moving at a pretty good stride, low to the ground.  My first
    thought was, COYOTE, at which point I was going to shoot it.  As the 
    animal came within 30 yds of my stand, I identified it as a small doe,
    about the size of a black lab.  Well, it is either sex season. 
    I am only hunting 8 ft off the ground, so my feet are about 6 ft high.
    This doe comes within 3 ft of my stand and doesn't even notice me.
    
    man, was I jazzed!  Come to find out, just before getting off my stand,
    I noticed a fresh rub on a tree not only 5 ft from my stand.  The thing
    is, the rub was not there when I put my stand there 3 weeks ago.  For
    what its worth, I hunt a ladder stand.
    
    Red, you know the stand I'm talking about.
    
    Good hunting.  Going back out FIRST thing in the morning, and will not
    return until after dark, or a trip to the deer cooler.
    
    bob
    

    Every time I read these notes I get fired up.  A friend called Sunday
    and said that he had 2 crop damage permits left(he had 10 originally
    and wanted to keep them for his family).  It turns out that nobody
    wants to hunt in the cold so there may be a chance for me to freeze
    once more.  Of course it isn't as cold as the Upper Pen...I was shaking
    while ready that one.  If I can talk the wife into it, I may be out
    this weekend, I know I should have gotten her what she really wanted
    for Christmas!  
    
    Good Luck and stay warm,
    Wess

    Well,
    
    the truck is in the parking lot, loaded down for the FINAL weekend of
    deer season in the state of Georgia.  five oclock can't get here soon
    enough.  Rain is in the forcast all weekend.  who cares.  Earl and
    myself going hunting all weekend.  Hopefuly one or both will have a
    final input into 270.  Y'all have a goodun.
    
    Bob
    

    Well, no note in 270 for me, but here goes.
    
    got down friday night about 8:30, dropped off the stand.
    Saturday morning, heard a deer blowing at me.  Earl's father in law
    shot an 8 pointer.  He rattled it in.
    
    Saw nothing saturday night.
    
    Sunday morning.  Damn!  slept in.  Got to the stand at daylight.
    Didn't see a thing.  of course not.  You got to put your damn contact
    lenses in.  I was so rushed, forgot to put them in.
    
    I'll tellyou  what we did see though.  Pulling out of deer camp, got
    on video the massacre of a 5 ft rattler with 6 buttons.  
    
    Holy Jesus, this is January and the snakes are out.  Must be the rain
    is flooding out there holes.  That is Earl's thought, and I tend to 
    agree with him.  So I have seen three snakes in January.
    
    Look out all you southern boys pulling your stands out.  Hey Red, if
    you still read this note, did you or Alan pull our stands out?  If not,
    WE have to go down and get them. I am not going in those woods without 
    someone else.  I WILL wear my snake chaps in January.  What a joke.
    
    Bob.  Deer season is now complete.  Time to go into gardening notes,
    fishing notes, and maybe if I can take the pain, golf notes.
    
    Winter project:  Build a 14ft johnboat for trout fishing in the north
    Georgia mountains.
    
    Wishing everyone the best, and hopefully next deer season we can all
    come together again, without ANY casualties of the TFSO's.
    
    Take Care!
    

I gotta tell you... If I had to deal with rattlers, i'd stop hunting... I 
mean it, I hate snakes and just the thought of one slithering by my side 
while I was on a ground stand would be enough for me...  I'll take the 
bone chilling cold of New England before poisonous snakes anyday.  Red, I 
don't know how you made the transition, I could never do it.

I finished off my deer hunting season with a whimper, after stating off 
with a bang...

After successfully tagging 2 deer in VT during the Bowseason, I returned 
to MA for their Archery season.  Saw 6 deer total, 1 within "good" bow 
range.  A beauty of a buck, within 10 paces. deflected arrow, causing 
nothing more than a flesh wound.  Arrow hit a sucker brush 3' in front of 
the deer.  

Back to VT for the Rifle season... Nut'n with horns... all Baldies, saw 
deer everyday out. some within rediculous range... 1 guy  from the camp 
scored during the Rifle season.  Not a tremendous percentage with 8 
hunters there for the majority of the week, couldn't have asked for 
better weather either, cold/clear and some snow.

Back to MA for Shotgun (with a doe permit)... deer sighted: 1 lone deer 
opening morning, out of range and too much brush between...  never caught 
a good look at the head, couldn't keep it in my sights long enough. rest 
of the week I didn't see another deer.  Lots of tracks running everywhere 
I had already been, never at the right place at the right time.  Hell, I 
had one run by where I had stopped to take a wizz earlier in the morning.

MA Muzzleloader, Nut'n!!!

8 pointer behind the In-laws house on saturday befoere the Muzzleloader 
opener.

2 Coyotes, no chance for a shot...

Coyote hunting here and there while I wait for the new arrival... praying 
for a boy this time...  already have 3 of the other type ;^)

Happy New Year to all...

Fra

    Fra. I havn't seen a snake yet.
    
    Bob, Allen got mud stuck Saturday. Had to get a tow truck from
    Sparta to get him out. Your secondary and my primary stands are
    in 4 feet of water. Don't go next weeken unless you have a boat.
    
    
    	Red