Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Northern Maine for this flatlander.
    
    Mark.

    
    Northern Maine,New Hampshire,Canada, Vt and New york.
    
    
    Pappy
    

    .1 Yah, they do have a way with words where I hunt on Lake Sysladobsis 
    in Northern Maine. The last time I was up there they referred to me as
    a Masswhole. I couldn't help but laugh even though I knew they weren't
    trying to be funny. 
    
    Just in case somebody doesn't make the connection. They were looking
    at my Massachusetts license plate when they called me that!!!!!!

>>                      <<< Note 1213.3 by LUNER::MERCIER >>>
>>                               -< Masswhole �!� >-

Could've been worse.  They could have called you a Masshalf!

Now that's definitely a quantity thang.

Jerry

    I'll quality over quantity anyday. I would rather try to match wits
    with a big buck than a herd. Plus there seems to be less hunters in a
    less deer populated area. The tags don't get filled as much but it is
    alot more enjoyable. 
    							Bret

    Depends on my needs at the time,
    
    If I need the meat I'd go for quantity. Any other time I'd go for
    quality. I'm like a lot of the others in here. If I don't NEED the meat
    i'd rather have a good time then shoot a deer.
    
    JUst my $.02
    Harvey
    

    I agree with .6.  If my freezer is empty, which it is right now, I am
    looking for quantity.  Once I get SOME meat in the freezer, then it's
    quality.
    
    I notice as hunting seasons come and go, my attitude changes on a
    yearly basis.  I feel the more deer you see, the pickier you get.  Two
    years ago, I let a couple of good sized does walk away on doe day, only
    because I didn't feel like processing a deer.  Then there are the times
    I wish I had a shot at that scrawny looking deer.
    
    Nowadays, I am just grateful to get into the woods, and with the new
    addition of a video camera, will be able to enjoy MY hunting
    experiences year round.
    
    Fixin to head on out to deer camp for nine days.  Adios.
    
    yippee!
    bob
    

    I'll take any hunting I can get!!!!!
    
    But for the fantasy of it all, I love hunting Nova Scotia.  I've been
    going for the past 2 years and saw more and BIGGER deer my first day 
    there than in 5 years of Mass hunting.
    
    Jim
    

	For me it depends on the season. For Bow season I like going to
Pa. because you usually have the opportunity to shoot. Whether I take the
shot or not depends on size. If its small I'll let it go if its good size
I'll shoot. If your selective you can find quality in Pa., just this
year I saw a nice 8 pointer. He came out into the field I was hunting on
the wrong side, he was too far away for a shot. I've never hunted Maine
so I don't know, In Ma. I haven't seen !@#$, but I've only been hunting
for 3 years. I prefer quality over quanity though.

/Ron

    
      If I'm hunting with a bow I'd like to have a few chances to take a
    shot, so I like Pa. for bowhunting very much! :-) ... The things that
    I don't like about Pa. are all the posted land/hunting club land that
    is constantly staring you in the face. 
    
      The past two years I've scored in Pa., so it's nice to have that
    venison in the freezer. When I take my trip up to the tip of NH  3
    weeks after Pa. bow season, it's a different hunt altogether. You don't
    have to worry about ANY posted land in Northern NH which is GRREEEAT!
    And, yes, there is always the chance of taking Mr. BIG!!! Also, when
    you get a deer in NH it seems to be a very special occasion because
    of the scarcity of the critters. I also think back to the area in Pa.
    that we bowhunt, and I keep saying to myself "I don't think I'd want to
    hunt with a rifle around here....if you know what I mean". The "Orange
    Coat Brigade" is just a bit too much to take in NH, I couldn't imagine
    what it's like in Pa. !!!
    
      So, with me it's "different hunting methods dictate whether I'd go
    for Quality vs. Quantity...."
    
    Joe

                To me, any time in the woods is 'quality'.  But
    as for numbers and such, there are enough deer within 20
    minutes of my house, in either direction I go (Southern N.H.),
    that there is no need to travel too far.  
    
                        Bob

    I hunt Maine, Vermont and the adirondacks of New York. I hunt these
    areas because i want the chance of getting a big buck. Plus i love to
    track. If your tracking you need an area with low hunting pressure so
    you won't chase the deer into another hunter. Personally i wouldn't 
    consider it challenging, hunting where the deer are so thick that you
    see them everywhere. You bring a Penn. hunter to Maine and they
    probably wouldn't do well, because they won't know how to hunt deer.
    They are used to just walking into the woods and having other hunter 
    hunters chase the deer by them. This just requires good shooting skills
    but no hunting skills. My vote is for quality every time.
    
    Bruce

    
    	If I were just starting out again, I'd have to go for the 
    quantity for one reason.  No matter how much you love to hunt deer,
    you need to get one to keep your interest and give you confidence.
    So many people lose it after not getting one for ten years - they end
    up in camp early, complain that there are no deer, etc...  As for 
    taking a kid hunting, if my daughter so chooses and I get the chance 
    to take her out, I'll take her to places where there are enough deer
    so that she can learn - if you see very few deer in your formitive
    years, you'll get frustrated and lose it...
    
    	As some others have suggested, I, too, like areas of high deer 
    density for bow hunting, but like Bruce and many of you other north
    woods hunters, will take Maine and remote areas of Vermont over
    anything else for rifle hunting.  Fewer people, greater chance of 
    taking a trophy, solitude, peace and quiet, challenge.  I want
    something now bigger than a spikehorn (much bigger!)
    
    - Rob

I think the bottom line is that it depends where you are, and how 
important it is to fill your freezer, while at the same time enjoying the 
way your filling it.  What I mean is, to me it's more important to fill 
the freezer (growing family). It may be cheaper to buy a side of beef, 
but not as enjoyable as hunting. I'm killing 2 birds with one stone I 
guess...

I guess if I had the opportunities like some of these writers had, where 
several bucks were walking by continuously, and I had my pick, not to 
mention all kinds of time afield, I'd be much choosier.  But alas, i'm a 
poor, married bread-winner, with 3 growing children, and another on the 
way.  To pass up a small spike or 4 pointer would be ludricrous.  I 
learned my lesson very early in my hunting career, pass up a small buck 
and your apt to go without for the remainder of the season.  Not too 
mention that my time in the woods is a precious comodity, and to let a 
small buck pass would be crazy.  Now don't get me wrong, i'd really like 
to whack a big one, God knows I've had my chances, and when they come 
again, hopefully i'll be better prepared.

I think Rob hit the nail on the head, take any deer you get an 
opportunity to, especially early in your career... Not only is it a big 
confidence booster, but it subconsciously keeps you looking harder for 
the bigger bucks.

pass up on some shots, and go scoreless for a few seasons and you may 
lose interest altogether.  I wonder how many people who shot a whopper of 
a deer their first year out, and never saw another deer, or anything as 
large again for the next few years, quit hunting???

Kinda wandering here...  but If I had an opportunity to hunt Maine, I'd 
go for it... Same goes for PA... any time I can get away to hunt would be
too much to ask for...  Me, I like to see deer, so I'd opt for PA to 
bowhunt, there's still some big deer there to shoot, You just have to 
hunt'em down. Rifle is another subject altogether...

enough rambling...
    
Fra

    	re .14 Fra,
     I could never lose interest in hunting. A bad day hunting is still
    better than the best day at work, no matter how many of them there are.
    I have gone through many lean years and I mean really lean. Some
    seasons I never saw anything. 2 or 3 of them in a row. But I would
    never give up hunting. I have had my chances on many deer too, some I
    have passed up for being too small, and some I have just plain blew it.
    As far as the lean years go, thats the beauty of hunting up north in
    the mountains, they are there you just have to find them. I get closer
    some of the bigger ones every year. Sooner or later I bag one. I refuse
    to take just anything , even though I have a family also. That is my
    choice, if you want to take anything that is your choice, I am not
    knocking it in any way. And actually I think a side of beeef would be
    more expensive. To each his own. 
    							Bret

    
    I guess my vote would be for quality.  Like everyone else has said it,
    "It depends upon the situation".  When I first started hunting deer 13
    years ago, I shot anything I could get my arrow in or my scope on. 
    Since that time I have tried to go the quality route.  Although if an
    easy shot presents itself....  
    
    I am now married and can't afford to hunt out of state much.  If you
    can, hunt BOTH places.  Hunt every occasion that you can, you never
    know what will come up in the future and limit your time afield.
    
    Looking for quality
    Wess   

I guess if I had a place to stay and a crew of guys to go with, it 
wouldn't matter which state it was.  So if that means picking a Maine 
Rifle hunt with opportunities for very large deer, over a PA Rifle hunt 
there'd be no question... MAINE!!  Havn't had that problem yet deciding 
which place to go... Was hinting to Lee about it earlier, with no luck ;^)

When it comes to archery, however, PA would be my choice. As Anything I 
take with a bow is a bonus.  With a Rifle in VT/shotgun in MA,  and a 3" 
minimum on antlers, I obviously don't taking anything I see walking by.

I have yet to fill all my tags so if I sounded like a glutton, I obviously 
did'nt explain myself well enough.  Like I said though, it all depends on
the circumstances.  Bottom line is I would never pass up a legal buck in 
hopes of a better animal... I've done it in the past and will not in the
future.  I'll just hope that at some point each season a wallhanger will 
present me with a decent opportunity, whether it be with muzzleloader,
rifle, shotgun or bow...  If that makes me a lousy hunter, so be it. 

just looking, Fra

    I heard a saying, It's not the thrill of the catch or the kill but the
    experience of being there.  
    
    I love to hunt.  That does not mean kill deer.  It means camping with
    your best friend, dad, son, etc.  Telling stories around the camp fire. 
    Hearing deer stories and giving/receiving advice on life.  Sitting in
    the woods and watching wildlife all around me.
    
    I am lucky enough to hunt in a state where the season is long and the
    bag limit is 5 per year, not counting the WMA hunts (they tag it for
    you).  I will probably never fill all my tags, by choice.  Hunting
    means more to me than a kill.  Thats what I was taught and thats what I
    am teaching my oldest son (13).  Killing a deer is the icing on the
    cake to a good season of hunting.  Seeing deer can be just as exciting
    also.
    
    My 4 cents worth.
    
    EARL

    Have your cake and eat it too.  Michigan deer are the Northern variety
    and get very big (George Bonnier, wife's cousin, bops a 12 pointer that
    weighs in a 265, from his cow pasture....why oh why am I scouting?) and
    a herd that is nearly 1.6m.  In the U.P. they call them horned rodents. 
    But they are big rodents; does go 150-170 and bucks get well over 200
    in their second to third year.
    
    In DMU (deer management unit) #11, they give about 100% bonus doe tags
    and block tags are available as well.  Our archery season runs from
    October 1st to January 1st.  Michigan is second only to Pennsylvania in
    archer population (286k vs 290k) and success rate (31% vs 33%).  But
    big deer are the difference.  My hunting buddy's 1989 doe near killed
    him; a 1000yd drag at 211lbs.
    

    I find that 'quality' depends more on the number of hunters than
    the number or size of the deer. I've had bozos stomp under my stand,
    drive through on 4-wheelers, conduct drives on posted land I
    had permission to hunt quietly, etc. etc. I'll take low hunter
    density over high deer population density any day. (Which is why
    I spend more hunting time with a bow than a gun.)

    Mr. Rogers from Michigan. Do you need any help with those rodents??????
    
    Fra, How far of a drive is it to Michigan???????
    
    Sounds to good to be true!!!!!
    
    Bob �

    
>    Fra, How far of a drive is it to Michigan???????

>    Bob �

It's closer than you think... ;^) 

Fra

    It is not the drive to Michigan that will get to you.  Via I90 and
    through Canada, it is 650miles from Worcester, Ma.  That gets you to
    Detroit.  We can get to reasonalbly good deer density in mid lower
    penninsula (about 150miles north).  But the really good "ratpacks" are
    in the western U.P. which is 550miles from Detroit. North by West. and
    on the same longitude as St. Louis.
    
    Be here (DEC office) by 6am on 11/9.  An you can get a guided trip to
    the U.P.  Too late for bonus deer tags, but non resident archery is
    about 35bucks and nonresident firearm is 100.  You can get three deer
    that way (two buck limit and first can be either sex).  Michigan
    Firearm starts 11/15 and I'll be using bow from 11/9 to 11/14 then
    firearm to 11/17.  
    
    hunter density is about 1.5/sq mi.  Jumps to 4 when firearms starts as
    the Wisconsin boys come over the border for an early start.  Wisconsin
    opens on 11/21.  BTW, in Wisconsin you get to hunt firearm from tree
    stands and get three bucks.  Geographically speaking there is no
    difference between extreme northern WI. and our U.P.  In fact I hunt
    only 10miles from the border.
    
    Look on your map where U.S. route 45 and U.S. route 2 cross.  Buck
    heaven is the 150 square miles to the SW of the junction.  The Ottawa
    National Forest.  P.S. Black bear density is highest in state in this
    general area.
    
    /bob

Bob,

if your offering guided trips, sign me up for next year... ;^)

    
>    Be here (DEC office) by 6am on 11/9.  An you can get a guided trip to
>    the U.P.  Too late for bonus deer tags, but non resident archery is
>    about 35bucks and nonresident firearm is 100.  You can get three deer
>    that way (two buck limit and first can be either sex).  Michigan
>    Firearm starts 11/15 and I'll be using bow from 11/9 to 11/14 then
>    firearm to 11/17.  
    
Fra
  

    HMMMM. This could be a lot of fun.  To get the most, you'd almost have
    to camp.  These areas are really pretty remote.  Let's kickthis around. 
    A DECnoters field trip(s) to the U.P.  Have to be one for archery in
    early October (before the snow) and one in rut when the bucks go crazy.  
    
    Rut starts around Nov 1st, bonus tags are good for gun season and
    beyond but not before.  I'll talk to my hunting buddy, Randy Gardner,
    of Bullet Archery, about using his land yacht has a base camp for
    showers, cooking, we'll figure out how to work the logistics assuming 
    a fly-in by participants.  Maybe eight people total?  Draw straws,
    loser contributes one tag for camp deer, everybody reimburses him
    cost of tag.  Venison dinner's each night for a week.   yep, I'm
    definately interested.
    
    anyone else?  
    
    p.s. I learned this past weekend that in the northeast corner of "Buck
    Heaven" is a private lodge that feeds the entire local herd all winter
    long 50-60 deer.  The word is that the fawns are so tame by spring that
    they run to meet the food delivery truck.
    
    gads,
    
    delivery  

    WOW,
    
    Nova Scotia is getting more distant the more I read about Michigan.
    Trophy deer, rather abundant trophy deer in the U.S., this could be
    worth looking into for next year. Any info on outfiters or private
    hunting camps would be greatly appreciated. I'll post what I find out.
    
    Jim
    ( three days till the great white north,,,eh )
    

    I would definitely be interested for next year. My plans are to leave
    for Maine next Friday, Nov. 6th. That's only a 350 mile drive from
    here. I'm not sure if I could handle a 1200 mile drive. What do you
    do with a couple 200lb plus bucks on an airliner? Maybe with my fre-
    quent travelr miles they could ride coach for free 8^0
    
    Count me in if you guys are serious...
    Bob M �
    

    yeah, call it a long day or whatever.  head not quite right!  "Excuse me
    ma'am I need to check these two deer.  The twelve pointer exceeds the
    50lb limit for overhead storage and the eight pointer won't fit under
    the seat.  Do you mind if I bring my fork lift in now?  They only weigh
    about a quarter ton combined.  Excess baggage fee is $624, ok no
    problem."  .................. Right!
    
    Forget the airlines.  Also, since bonus tags cost $3 and everyone gets
    one (even non-residents) if you get them in before 9/24, I would have
    no problem contributing one of my archery tags for the camp deer.  I
    would get to use the bonus tag for archery after gun season.  The rest
    you guys would have to go home.
    
    So it seems a group would have to form up in the Marlboro/Merrimack
    area and begin a run to Michigan 1 1/2 days before hunting.  If you
    have Michigan licenses in hand, you should have no problem going
    through Canada, providing your hunting weapon doesn't meet the
    restricted or prohibited criteria.  Even without the Michigan licenses
    it shouldn't be too bad, but expect 30-45 min delay going in at
    Buffalo.  For info on weapon classification call (519)973-8522
    
    It's about 11 hours, with minimal stops, from Marlboro to Detroit.
    More later, got a meeting now
    
    /Bob

                I've hunted Michigan a few times, as my grandparents
    lived there.  It took me sixteen hours to get there (from Pelham,
    N.H.).  I took my time driving but would NOT want to do it alone
    again.  Makes for a long drive.  Also I had no trouble at all at
    the border.  The last time I went, my Dad had flown out a few days
    before for business, I had two rifles with me and they didn't give
    me any grief at all.  Just don't have any handguns, radar detector
    and make sure you have a proof of insurance certificate.  At least
    it used to be required.  Great state with very high deer density.
    The only thing that turned me off was you'd see guys there in the
    morning shoot a deer, throw it in the trunk or back of a van, and
    they'd be back that evening to get another.  Deer are big business
    in Michigan.......  
                      Just rambling,
    
                              Bob

Having spent 5 years in the U.P. (at Michigan Tech in Houghton), the prospect
of a U.P. hunt is almost too good to imagine.  And this is from somone who
just got a buck on his first hunting trip (ever) in Colorado!

For all those who have never gotten north of Detroit (or even central lower
Michigan), the U.P. is a fantastic place to hike, hunt, explore, fish, etc.
An awful nice hunk of real estate with few people.  You appreciate it more after
you live in New England.

What's worse is that our family was co-owner of 640 acres near Reed City in
western lower Michigan, and my father never hunted there because of "all those
nuts out there with guns"  The hunters were pretty brutal toward locked gates,
(flattening them) etc., and didn't make a good name for themselves.  But, the 
area was loaded with deer and would have been great hunting.  Sigh.  



Steve

    Mr. Gardner and I met this morning as a final strategy session prior to
    his next week's departure for the U.P.  We decided to concentrate on
    the #10 DMU and in Particular the section south of U.S.2.  he gets a
    five day head start on me as I leave the 9th (would love to take the
    weekend but peace at home is 8 days afield  and two travel.  So he
    refines my scatter scouting of 4/25, 6/20, 7/16, 8/25, and 10/23.  
    
    We will prepare for the onslaught of Wisconsiners on the 14th and 15th
    but trying to understand how they will drive the deer and to where. 
    That is where we will be Sunday (11/15) morn.  Hopefully, we'll have
    three hanging by then.  I'll take the laptop and enter the trip into
    the hunting topics, hopefully the successful ones.  BTW, the worst it
    gets is 5 hunters/sq mi or 130 acres each and that is on opening
    weekend. Even then, you are outnumbered 10:1 by the deer.  Good thing
    they don't shoot back.
    
    /bob