Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

	My question is what good would it do now? Isn't the rut over
in Indiana? Wouldn't the doe's already be pregnant? It doesn't make
any sense to me. I also don't agree with this method.

/Ron

    It sound's like the state has a lot of money hanging around. The thing
    I want to know is how long does this so called drug last. Why would
    they want to drug the deer, if they are having so much trouble with the
    deer, why not make the hunting season a little longer. That would sound
    easier to me..........
    
    
                                                   dan

    
    	Heck, if there willing to drop in food then I would volunteer for
    them to drop me and my .270 in instead.  I will even pay for the
    airplane. 
    	One question I would have is:  If other animals besides deer eat
    this food would it prevent them from birthing? In particular,
    endangered species, if there are any in Indiana.  Also, what if cattle
    and sheep eat this stuff. If I had a prize bull I was using for
    breeding I think I would get awfully p.o. if he couldn't get it up any
    more (I'm sure the bull would be p.o. too.)

    How do they regulate the dosage?  
    
    Jeff

    
    
    Whose paying for it? If the money is coming from the Fish and Wildlife
    dept I'd be a little upset.
    
                               Walt

    
    Jeff,
    
    They regulate the dosage by grains.
    
    You know, 180, 220's ...........
    
    Ha,ha,ha,
    
    I just heard it again......Seems what they are "Thinking of is
    Birthcontrol methods for the future. What they are actually doing
    now is dropping Fox food(Whatever that is) laced with a Rabie Vacine,
    seems lots of fox have rabies out there.
    
    
    Sorry for the mixed message.....I should learn to listen sometimes
    before I speak. However, this isn't the first time I heard of some
    birthcontrol ideas for deer....how one accomplishes this would be
    interesting. They would pbobably mess it up and every animal would end
    up sterile...That's frighting.
    
    Rick
    

    i heared the same thing this morning on the paul harvy show that it was
    deer they were going to use dosage on and that he also said another
    story on the foxes. so you heared right this morning.

    I've been out of the Wildlife Management Business for some time
    (use to work for Colorado Division of Wildlife). Can't say I remember
    learning of this technique for population control. Without knowing
    what the hunting pressure of the area it would be hard to determine
    what ones goal would be using this technique (A very expensive one
    at that)?? The only one that comes to mind is by sterilizing the 
    population, over time the population or demographic distribution
    would move to an older population of deer. With light hunting pressures
    this means bigger older trophy bucks. (Less deer to compete) 
    
    The bad side of this is we now have a non-renewing population of
    deer. 
    
    I don't know how effective this technique would ever be. Deer can
    be fairly mobile and the costs per applications are high. If they 
    were to do something like this for birth control, now would be the 
    time but the drug used would be some sort of agent that would cause 
    the animal to abort her pregnancy. The agent used would have to be
    highly specific to ungulates.
    
    I don't think Fish and Game would adopt such procedures (As they
    get enough pressure from the various Anti-hunting groups that they 
    wouldn't want the Catholic church involved).

    The Colorado DOW has successfully used feeding stations in the past 
    (Waterton Canyon) for bighorn sheep. The feeding stations were not used 
    to supplement feeding (this artificially sustain a population which
    should of been hunted more heavily. Besides many times when feeding
    stations are set up, its too late) but were used to dispense antibiotics 
    to combat Pneumonia in the sheep.

    An interesting side effect that I found amusing was we mixed the 
    antibiotics with apple mash. If you let the apple mash sit awhile
    it fermented! Many of the sheep that came back for 2nd or 3rds would
    end up getting sloshed. (I don't know what the division did to combat
    this problem)
    
    Peter 
    

    
    
    The anit's have won.  It's as simple as that.  Isn't anything sacred
    anymore?  I mean who to hell do us humans think we are?  If it came
    to starvation/predation vs. birthcontrol for the animals, I'd say let
    mother nature take her course.  This is ridiculous, but something I've
    been saying to my fellow hunters over the past couple of years...and now
    it's on us.  I read about this some time ago and the anti's are all for
    it, not only that, but forcing deer to miscarry their young as a means
    of population control.  Hell if we don't value human life, how are we 
    going to value animal life...yup, we control all.  These people don't
    see humans as predators, we may kill as hunters, but they're preying
    on society with their twisted sense of reality.  It's more widespread
    than hunting too...
    
    When I first heard of this, some main line group like the Humaine
    Society, was talking about birth control for furbearing animals.  Since
    trapping is as good as dead (the anti's killed the market), the anit's
    needed a method to control beaver populations...so they were talking
    about some means of artificial birthcontrol...but they mentioned also
    about other animals, deer, etc.
    
    Sickening.
    
    Kevin

    Next thing you know, they will be spraying it over college dorms :-)
    
    Sorry - I just couldn't resist.
    
    Mark,
    

    
    re .10
    
    No, they'll just wrap them up in a big condom.
    
    ;^)

    -.9
    
    For the most part, I try to watch what I say about the various "animal
    activist right" groups ect, but I find it interesting that these people
    would be in favor of birth control among our animal populations,
    especially when the method of birth control is in the form of an
    abortion. This doens't make sense "Preserve our wildlife populations,
    "don't let OUR deer be hunted", "Hunting is not Wildlife Management",
    but its ok that we bring about birth control wild populations
    especially when the method use causes the animal to abort her young??
    
    It doesn't make sense to this old boy but then again, with some of these 
    groups, their leaders, and their activities haven't make much sense
    either.  I don't see F&G supporting such activities.
    
    Peter
    
    
    

    Can someone find out who is financially backing this program?  The 90's
    are so screwed up!  What is the chemical going to do to the meat of the
    animal, especially without the stamp of U.S.D.A., are those chemicals
    going to effect the people eating the meat?  Shoot a doe in Indiana,
    and you'll be shooting blanks!
    
    Personally, before I attack the anti's , I would like to know who
    is financially sponsoring this program, and if it is politital, who
    the senators, etc. are that voted it in.  Is this the beginning of the
    end, or can we, hunting organizations etc., battle this thing as a
    whole and nip it in the bud.
    
    Look what hunting organizations did with Sears Roebuck this last year.
    Chock one up for the hunters!
    
    Bob "win as a team" Harris
    

    Peter
    		If you worked for the Colorado F+G, why the h@ll aren't
    you still out there? I'd love life a lot more if I had a job like
    that. 
    		I'm not even gonna get into anti's. I'll just get all
    wound up. 
    
    				Butch

    Butch,
    
    Its a long story but if you think Digital is going through some
    hard times try working for the State. Getting a permenate position
    with the F&G is nearly impossible. Thus you start working on a 
    temp basis for Colorado DOW, the universities, COOP units, and 
    the US F&G. In an attempt to feed your family and get them use to
    a new area for the 2nd time that year (after several moves in the
    past) you begin to see the writing on the wall. 
    
    I am still very much involved and still attempt to remain current
    with what new in the F&G/biology world.
    
    As I said before, I don't think any F&G agencies can/are support(ing)
    this effort PERIOD. I got to thinking about this last night a little
    more and have come to the following conclusions (this is just my
    thoughts, as I haven't looked at current literature). 
    
    	1) What birth control methods are available today?? 
    
    		- Sterilization of buck via operation. Very expensive.
    		  Its permanent. For it to work you've got to get a 
    		  majority of the bucks. We all know what one virile
    		  buck will do. Sterial buck's antler's wouldn't be
    		  massive and as a result he would loose his status
    		  and another buck would do the mating! 
    
    		- Sterilization of buck via implant. Again very expensive.
    		  Its not permanent. But still very impracticle as it
    		  would require the trapping/tranquization of large
    		  number of animals.
    
    		- Sterilization of females via operation. Not possible
    		  to do in the field (especially in large numbers...)
    
    		- Sterialization of females via implant. Same as for 
    	 	  bucks.
    
    		- Birth control via drugs that would block doe/cow 
    		  from going into estrous. Temporary. Act as "the pill".
    		  Would require repeated dosages. If feeding would
    		  stop not sure if the female would go into estrous. I know
    		  bucks are capable of producing sperm year round so
    		  I'm not sure what the outcome of this would be, but
    		  if doe/cow was to go into estrous and is received by
    		  a buck late into the winter season the fawn/calf
    		  would be born in early summer/summer instead of the
    		  Spring. I Don't know if the animal would be able to make 
    		  it through a tough winter. Here again I just thinking 
    		  outloud but twiddling with Mother Nature has some very 
    		  serious consequences!
    
    		  Thinking about the logistics of this one. The drug used
    		  would have to be safe on the animal and one that has
    		  no adverse effect on other animals (especially carnavours
    		  and us since we sit atop of the food chain). How to get
    		  drug to does?? Animals may not be on winter range thus
    		  the animails will be dispersed (not a concentrated herds as
    		  one might find on winter ranges).   Good luck on this
    		  one.
    
    		- Adminster agent that causes doe/calfs to abort their 
    		  young. One dosage per season. Could be given at time
    		  when animals tend to be concentrated on winter range.
    		  Agent would have to be safe for animal ect. Heavy
    		  public option(s) may arise on this one and political and
    		  intrest group pressures would make this option a very
    		  unlikely candidate.
    
    		
    The bottom line is there maybe some interests and some ongoing
    research on this topic but I believe the programs would be as
    effectinve as us handing out "BUCK" Ramsey every fall.
    
    If this discussion every did come up between hunters and anit's I be
    curious to learn if these groups would support their idea if they
    learned that the one viable means of birth control would cause
    animals to abort their young or that the use of their birth control
    could reduced the once majestic buck with his glourious rack to a spike
    buck.
    
    Peter