Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
       If you're talking 10 ga., at 30 yds. I think you'd have to be right
    on them. If so, then they should be toast. I've shot a lot of geese
    with my 10 although I use T shot steel.
       If you've got a 12 ga. 3 1/2 inch, are you watching your shot to see
    where it's patterning out? I've been having problems lately with ducks
    of the diver variety as they're screaming through and I've shot behind
    several.
       By the way, I use 2's for ducks and I would NOT recommend that for
    geese. Either T's or what you're currently using should be fine.
    
           Regards, John

    I'd be happy to come show you :-)
    
    Seriously, my guess is that one of two things happened:  1) Your shot
    choke combo doesn't pattern well.  You really need to try a few
    different size shot and load on a large piece of paper to see what
    kind of pattern you get.  or 2) depending on the type shot you got,
    the goose may have been moving much faster than you thought.  Their
    wing beat is much slower and their speed can be deceptive.
    
    I guess there is a 3rd possibility - that the geese were much farther
    away than you thought.  Their large size can make them seem much closer
    than they are.
    
    At that range, your shells were more than up to the task.  3 inch #2's
    would have been adequate, though I prefer #1s.
    
    Good luck,
    Mark
    

Yeah I guess I have to pattern it. They were'nt too far and they're speed
wasn't that great cause they were just coming up off a field. Boy was I in shock
Someone told me that maybe the Unified choke is too broad. By the way it's a 
12 ga 3 1/2in. I distinctly remember leading about 6 inchs on the first and then
directly at the body on the follow ups. Some old timer told me to use #4 first 
and aim for the head then use BB in the follow ups. He figured you have a better
chance with a head kill.

RE: .0 & .3   I don't think you used enough forward allowance.  

If the average (over distance between muzzle and bird) of the pellets is
about 1200 feet per second, then it must take at least 0.075 seconds for 
shot to travel 30 yards after leaving the gun.  A 30 yard target moving 
at 15 mph (that must be about stall speed for a goose) would need 20 inches 
of allowance (if I've done the math right).  Since you would rather kill 
the goose than wound it, you should be at least that far in front of the head.
Don't forget that shot tends to string out, and we are talking about the 
time for the leading edge of the string to get to the bird - the last pellets
to leave the gun will get there later.

Using a guess of 1200 fps average velocity (probably too low for short range
and too high for longer yardages) the following should be reasonable
forward allowances in feet.

                   20 yards     30 yards      40 yards      50 yards
                   --------     --------      --------      --------

     15 mph          1.1          1.7           2.2           2.8

     20 mph          1.5          2.2           2.9           3.7

     25 mph          1.8          2.7           3.7           4.6

     30 mph          2.2          3.3           4.4           5.5


     40 mph          2.9          4.4           5.9           7.3


     50 mph          3.7          5.5           7.3           9.2


     60 mph          4.4          6.6           8.8          11.0

These are swags, Jeff or Mark or somebody, how do these match up to 
experience?  

Another thing to consider is how you lead the birds (point & shoot, sustained
lead, or swing through).  If you use swing through and don't follow though
with the gun, you need to add more allowance.  If you point & shoot, you need to 
allow for reaction time.

 - Dave

     I think Dave hit it right.  First geese look like they are going alot
    slower then they really are.  I think that the most prevalent mistake
    most guys make is to not aim for the head.  Most folks will aim for the
    biggest part of the target (the body).  Geese are not hard to kill if 
    you hit them in the head, they can be a tough as heck if you hit them
    in the body only.  Concentrate on swinging on there heads rather then
    the body, it makes a BIG difference.  Contrary to popular belief, you
    don't need mega-shot to kill them.  We use #1 steel now 99% of the
    time.  I usually shoot 3" mags.  If you hit them in the head at 40 yds
    or closer they are dead geese.  If you hit them in the body only, they
    won't come down unless you break a wing.  We won't shoot at geese
    unless they are inside 30yds unless it has obviously been hit and has 
    flared.  Inside 30yds #1's are absolutly deadly.  The other factor is 
    that we hunt over decoys 99.999% of the time.  We don't jump shoot
    geese.  When you jump shoot geese you don't normally get a good shot at
    there head,  instead you get a good shot at there back end.  Besides 
    nothing beats haveing a flock of Canada's set up and sucker into your 
    spread.
    
    FWIW                                                             
    
    Jeff