Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    Les,
      While I can't actually tell you about using the Mini-30 for deer,
    I use the old Ruger 44mag carbine. I took a nice five pointer last
    year with it. One shot through the chest just behind the shoulder
    dropped it dead in its tracks. I don't feel undergunned and the
    7.62x39 has to be as good as the 44mag. I just won't shoot unless
    the range is under one hundred yards. Don't worry about the balistic
    bangers in the gun notes. The secret is to get used to using that
    rifle and get to feel confident with it. The rest will fall into
    place.
    
    sjn

    I guess my biggest question is why???  when there are so many other,
    more potent calibers out there...
    ...And if it's a well placed shot you have to take because of the
    inadequacy of the round, then you don't need the semi-auto anyway...
    It's the first shot that counts, after that your winging it.
    
    I don't personally hunt with one and have never hunted with one, but a
    guy in our camp did and is now selling it.  Theres a note in here
    somewhere with one for sale if your interested...
    
    I've shot them, and they are a pleasure to shoot, not a tack driver by
    any stretch, but easy on the recoil and light... little rambo'ish for
    the woods in my opinion.  He had a negative experience with it, and
    does'nt feel it is a capable deer rifle... i can't elaborate more cause
    I wasn't at camp at the time.
    
    A Ruger mini-30 7.69x39mm russian, w/ mounted 4x bushnell scope and
    extra 5 round clips and ammo in excellent condition asking $400
    
    give me a call if your interested.
    
    Fra

    
    Lee,
    
    I have been reading the note in FIREARMS, it really seemed to stray
    from what you wanted.
    
    I too don't use the mini-30, but there are a couple 44 mags and 1 mini
    30 in the group I hunt with.  The 44's have taken several deer, never
    a problem, the shots have been out to about 125 yds.  Deer never went
    far if at all.
    
    The one shot with a mini-30 was at about 120yds, the deer went about
    3/4 mile. I should mention the shot placement was not ideal. It was
    to far back for a lung/heart hit.  I was not there for the 
    dressing of the deer, but I would guess maybe liver/stomach area 
    judging from the entrance hole.  There was no exit hole, but the bullet
    was just under the hide on the far side of the deer.
    
    Don't know what bullet weight the guy was using.  
    
    When he bought the gun, he was looking for a Ruger 44 mag carbine, like
    the others in the group. The person at the store told him of them being
    discontinued but the mini-30 was the replacement.  When looking at the
    bullet, it is very similar to a 30-30. Don't know any ballistic 
    info on either.
    
    One other point.  When I was at a hunting camp in N. Carolina last 
    year. The lodge owner said he had had a couple mini-30's in. They did
    fine for short shots in the woods, but once you crossed the 125-150
    range the trajectory drops fast and they loose power fast.
    
    I would say it is fine for New England type of hunting, just keep shots
    short, and practice with it.
    
    --Bob
    

    
    Lee
    
    Reply .3 sums up my personal feelings to a degree about the mini-30, or
    the 7.62X39 cartiridge.  I considered using it in the brush this past
    season, but decided against it for a number of reasons.  However if
    seriously considering the mini-30 there are (in my opinion) serveral
    considerations, in doing so be a realist.  How well can I place a shot?
    Where will the hunt take place, bush -vs- open field?  What shot distances
    are we talking about?  Size of the deer being hunted, this would be
    geographically dependant?  Each individual shoots what they feel
    comfortable with.  Open fields I use a 30-06, for bush .444, again this
    is my preference.  Now that the season is over and finding that my
    longest shot was 40-50 yards, I'm considering a .44mag, which would
    more than fill the bill.  However once again, its what you feel most
    comfortable with.  If hunting in the bush we could talk about bullet
    deflection, the mini-30 -vs- .444 or .44mag, and probably a few other
    things would pop up as well.
    
    Well thats my two cents worth.
    
    Cheers
    Leonard
     

    Thanks for the info. A Mini-30 for $400 you say, of course I am
    interseted. The problem is I am in Canada. I will have to check how
    much duty gets slapped on. A lot of this free trade cut in this month,
    so maybe the standard 30% does not apply anymore. We are also elligible
    for a $300 per year duty free trip. 
    
    I am going to be in Boston for NET U, and then I am going to be in
    Bedford in March. Where is this gun located?
    
    I should mention that the area that we hunt offers 100 to 150 yard
    shots on an old hydro line and the rest is jungle country with possible
    shots in the 40-50 yard max with lots of trees in between. I have been
    using a 300 mag with scope for the last few years and taken my share of
    deer on the hydro slash. Great gun, never look for anything. However,
    trying to get a shot at bounding deer in the bush is another story. 
    
    I tried a Remington woodmaster semi in .308. Nice gun, but I don't like
    block sightes so I thought of getting something that has peeps already on
    it and a bit lighter if possible, a Mini-30 is the only thing that
    seems to fit the bill. Since I would also like a nice plinker for
    ground hogs it seems to fit the bill. Some of my neighbors have gotten
    a bit crusty over me using the 300 Mag to curb the ground hog
    population.
    
    To engage in camp talk, I was looking at the ballistics for the 7.62X39
    and it sure looks a lot like a 30/30 or .303 Savage. 
    
    My alternative at this point is the Remington-semi carabine, only in
    30-06 unfortunatly, and have a peep installed. One of the guys in the
    camp inherited on this year and it is a nice short gun, plenty of
    power, I find it a bit heavy and would preffer a .308 but then life is
    that way. I wish that Ruger would make the Mini-30 in .308, there were
    rumours that they would, and then it would be a nobrainer.
    
    Les 

    
    RE:5
    
    You say you'll be shooting 100-150yds....40-50yds.....you want to hunt
    varments...
    
    To meet all your needs you should consider a 30-06 Bolt-action with a
    scope of 3-9 power.
    
    You'll be able to purchase or re-load ammo to hunt varments to Moose.
    
    You seem to want one tool for many situations....don't under estimate
    the versatility of the 30 caliber invented in 1906....
    
    Do yourself a favor and check out the many loads this caliber has to
    offer. You'll find a tool to meet all your needs that will last a
    lifetime....not to mention the re-sale value if you should decide at a
    later time to sell.
    
    Good-Luck
    
    Rick
    

     
    Hi Les
     Ref. .5 
    
    Ironically I have considering going to the 30-06 carbine also, still
    thinking about it.  The one nice thing about the 30-06 is the number of
    different loads available for it. Currently the only cartridge I've see
    available for the 7.63X39 is a 123 grain bullet.  I feel that balistics
    are relative, in looking at the 30-30 and 7.62X39 and 30-06 the
    alingnment factor would be the bullet weight.  I believe that the 30-30
    has 150 grain bullet, now comes the next thought.  How much difference
    does that really make when it comes to impact.  Again this is relative
    to bullet placement on target, and personal preference etc..  Putting
    it another way if a freight train and an MG are traveling at 50 miles
    an hour each, which would be the one delivering the most devestating
    blow upon impact with a similar/like object?  I tend to go with heavier
    39 for plinking.  The ammo is cheap and I don't have to reload it. 
    Weight factory, after walking for over three hours even my ithaca mod37
    got heavy.
    
    Cheers
    Leonard
    

    
    E=1/2 MVsq
    
    I'll look tonight, but when I looked on the weekend the ballistic
    tables had both the 30/30 and 7.62X39 at around 1000 ft/lbs of energy
    at 150 to 200 yards. Like I said I'll double check. The AK round has a
    bit more velocity which makes up for the difference in weight.
    
    I have seen Winchester, Remington, Federal and PMC offering AK hunting
    rounds in 123 to 125 grain weights all lead saber tip construction. I
    don't know what bullets you can get from Speer or Nosler, I was going
    to start cheking. The AK round is not all that popular in Canada, as
    assault rifles are frowned on here and probably will get banned real
    soon.
    
    LEs

	Les, I know you are looking for a semi-automatic for those
	quick follow up shots, but I still can't resist asking:
	"How about looking at a Browning BLR in .308 - or even 
	in .284 Win these days". With an aperture sight installed
	this would be a pretty deadly combination for heavy timber
	hunting, and those 100-150 yard shots would still be a breeze.

	But then again I don't know if you like levers? Prize wise
	you would not be too much over the $400 (US) you mentioned
	as acceptable. Weight wise you would be OK too - 7 lbs.

	If an auto is really what you want, but you are looking for
	a .308 then how about a Springfield M1A? Unfortunately it
	is both more expensive (new around $800)  and heavier too -
	8 3/4 lbs.

	Best of luck.

							- Mike

    There is a number of fine lever guns out there, the 308 BLR being one
    of them. Don't want a lever. 
    
    Used my brother's Woodmaster 308 last year, nice gun but I want it
    lighter. I have been working this over for a couple of years now, and I
    keep coming up with the Mini-30. So be it. 
    
    Les

	For deer shots under 100 yards you ought to fine with the proper bullet
	and placement.

	Peep sights for those chucks might pose a problem ... you can always
	throw a (sorta) cheapy scope on it for that.

	Re "why a Mini 30?" ... how 'bout 'cause that's what he wants?

	AA

    re:.11
    
    >  "'cause that'd what he wants?"
    
    Correct, just prodding him for more details... people ask me why i'm
    building a 300H&H when theres 2 other 300 mags available in a factory
    rifle... I don't think theres any thing wrong with asking, it creates
    discussion, and much can be learned by verbal exchange.
    
    Fra

	In my new Peterson's Hunting rag, the author suggested keeping shots
under 150 yards and that the energy at that range was roughly 10% less than
a 30-30.  
	Another opinion, but from a paid resource (if that makes a difference).

	I will stick with my 300 Win Mag.

	Jim

>  I don't think theres any thing wrong with asking, it creates
>  discussion, and much can be learned by verbal exchange.
    
    	Fra,

	You are right of course.  Seemed he had already decided on the
	Mini and was asking for popular justification. ;-)

	AA

    Well, I went ahead and bought one. A mini-30 that is. A box of shells
    latter, I am convinced that the bloody thing shoots too low and cannot
    adjust for it. Never had any problem with any other Ruger I had, guess
    there is always the first.
    
    Posted my problem in the firearms conference, got a suggestion to file
    the front sight. Come weekend I'll get filing. 
    
    I am going down to Bedford Mass in the next few weeks, anybody
    recommend a good place for cheap AK loads and mags?
    
    Thaks,
    
    LEs

    
    Not exactly "next door", but not too far away would be ARMCO
    in West Boylston. They always have a lot of paramilitary stuff
    and their ammo prices ain't bad. Be aware that AK mags have
    come *way* down in price. Average price used to be about $25
    and up, even before the panic. Now I see ads from a place called
    CDNN on the back of the Gun List every month.....30-rounders
    are now $6.95 and 5-rounders are about a buck more. So, don't 
    pay the big bucks. 7.62 X 39 has also come down quite a bit, I
    see 1100-round cases for about $100 or so.
    
    DAP
    

    
    Oh, yeah, I'm assuming that you realize that the Mini-30
    ain't gonna house them AK mags. The Mini-30 extended-round
    magazine situation has also gotten a lot better lately. When
    the gun was a fairly new item, there were few 30-rounders
    available for it, and the ones that were out there cost about
    $50 apiece! Now Fed Ord is cranking them out by the millions,
    average price at gunshows is about $20 or so.....I think that
    Gander Mtn even has them these days. The Fed Ord mags are OK,
    I used on for awhile in my Mini-14. The Mini-30 mag might be
    a 20-rounder, but I don't remember without looking it up.
    
    DAP
    
    

    Re 882.16
    
    You would'nt happen to know the general directions to get to ARMCO from
    Bedford would you?
    
    Thanks,
    
    LEs

    I'll take a stab at the directions from Beford.
    
    First, if you have ever been to Digital's Headmaster House in Boylston
    it's real easy as ARMCO is on the same road (Route 70), about a mile or
    2 further west. It's located on the left side of the road, in the rear
    of a house. There is a sign at the location.
    
    Otherwise, my suggestion is Route 3 north to Route 495 South.
    Follow 495 S to Route 290 West ( toward Worcester).
    Get off 290 at Route 140 and take 140 North until you come
    to Route 70. I think it's the first traffic light.  Go left
    and you will see the DEC facility on the right. Continue
    another mile or 2 as I described above.
    
    Have fun, but bring lots of $$$.

    
    Ernie did a fine job of finding ARMCO for ya. I would only add
    that once you get off of 290, the RT 70 intersection is about
    1.5 miles and its the first traffic light so it should be easy to
    find.
    
    Also, when looking for ARMCO after making the left onto RT 70,
    don't be looking for an enermous storefront.....ARMCO is in the
    basement level of a ranch-style home and their sign out front is
    a little less than imposing. You see the sign and go down a fairly
    steep driveway. It'll be on your left, so be ready.
    
    Its a fun place to visit and stock up on goodies...their gun
    prices would wake the dead.
    
    DAP
    

    Much appreciated guys. I'll be sure to check it out in a couple of
    weeks.
    
    Les

    One little addition, after you get on Rt. 70 you will come to a fairly
    sharp bend to the left, ARMCO is right there on the left. If you
    come to the church you went by it.
    
    Jack

    Well I found it no problem. Thanks for the instruction. You were right 
    about the gun prices, pertty good. I loaded up on a pile of ammo. Was 
    also looking for a bigger clip for my Mini-30. They had both a 30 and a
    50 from American Clip, I believe, but quite pricie, 50 to 60 $.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Les