Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    You don't say anything about range or hunting conditions.
    
    
    		muzzle		300 yds		muzzle		300 yds
    		velocity	velocity	energy		energy
    
    55 gr	3770		2286		1735		638
    
    150 gr	2820		2009		2648		1344
    
    ie at 300 yds the accelerator has lost 39.4% of its velocity and 63.3%
    of its energy. The 150 gr bullet loses 28.8% of its velocity and 49.3%
    of its energy.
    
    By comparison a 100 gr .243 reaches 300 yards at 2215 fps and 1089 ft
    lbs, and the 25-06 100 gr bullet is moving 2287 fps and 1161 ft lbs
    
    So whilst as you say it might not be the average North American choice
    the 7.62 NATO cartidge spans the cartridges you nominate as choice in
    terms of energy and are comparable on velocity.
    
    If loading my own ammo for the 7.62 I would proabably use a boat tail
    hollow point semi jacketed round in 150-165 gr and load for slightly
    less energy... but that's personal choice.
    
    So in conclusion I would consider there to be little difference between
    the 150 gr 7.62 and a 100 gr in either of your smaller rounds, and the
    accelerator has substantially less performance all round at 300 yards.
    
    /. Ian .\

    
    
      Thanks Ian for the reply,
                               I guess I'll go with the 150 grain factory
    load. The range I was interested in in my area in Mass. probably won't
    exceed 200 yds., but I guess you never know.
       The reason that I mentioned the .243 and .25/06 was the fact that
    they are smaller calibres, probably better suited for smaller game in
    that the smaller bullet would do less damage to the pelts.
    
      I also neglected to mention that the 55 grain bullet is a .22 calibre
    bullet/sabot to make it shootable in .30 calibre rifleing. I guess I'll
    have to try the 150 grain bullet to find out how it affects the pelt.
    
                           Thanks Again,  Jeff

	Actually, whatever your gun shoots very well would likely be
	a good coyote round.  They are relatively small and accuracy 
	is a must.  Flat shooting to minimize hold over at the further
	ranges is a big plus.

	No personal experience with the performance of the Accelerators
	except 3-5 shots through a 30-06 Rem 760.  Some didn't feed
	through the pump and the ones that did printed about a 3"
	pattern at 100 yds.  Heard of one coyote shot with one and
	of the quarter-sized hole on the exit side ... not too good
	for the pelt.

	For varmits that you don't care to salvage a pelt from, an
	explosive bullet is normally used to humanely as possible
	kill the animal.  For pelts, a solid would work as good
	as anything at factory .308 velocities.  A heavy bullet
	constructed for deer quite possibly would act as a solid
	if it didn't encounter a major bone.  With the proper bullet 
	placement, a solid will kill a coyote as well as any hollow/
	soft point bullet.

	An advantage of an explosive bullet is that it minimizes 
	ricochettes - a plus if you're shooting at an extreme angle 
	against the ground in a	populated (or not) area.

	AA

    I wouldn't think a .308 pushing a 150 grn pill would do much for the
    pelt either...  My .270 has blown grapefruit sized holes out the back 
    side of yotes, and one of the guys in VT scored on one this year with
    his pre 64 .308... not a pretty sight (he was using 165 spbt) and hit
    it at 130 yards.
    
    If your planning on keeping the hides then a 150 grain bullet is not
    the answer...  you need to be using something designed to break up on
    impact... 110-125 possibly?  Give the accelerator a try, you've got
    nothing to lose, especially where your not handloading and 150 seems to
    be the lightest available factory load.
    
    JMHO,  Fra

    
    I shot a Coyote in Dublin, N.H. 2 years ago with my muzzle-loader,
    T/C 54 cal, Renegade...
    
    35yds, he's looking and standing straight at me..placed the sight under
    his chin and KApoof...straight down the throat thru his heart-lung down
    along his ribs breaking 4 of them along the way and lodged in his
    rear-hip...never came out...but a fine clean golf-ball sized hole going
    in.
    
    I had a shoulder mount done....open-mouth with a snarl--looks great.
    
    Sorry...I seemed to go off the subject....What do you think of MY
    varmint gun??  ha,ha,ha......
    
    Rick
    
    

    	Several years ago I joined a hunting club called the Phoenix Varmit
    Callers.  They have a hunting contest once a month.  You check in with
    an empty truck Friday night and return Sunday night with your Foxes (5
    pts), Coyotes (10 pts), Bobcats (50 pts), Mtn Lion (100 pts) and Bears
    (100 pts).  The top three winners won trophies, etc.  
    
    	Anyway, my first time out I used a .30-06.  I didn't know if
    hunting coyotes would be fun or not, so I didn't want to make an
    investment as yet.  Now remember we call our game in, so most shots
    are real close.  I always wait until they have figured out what I am,
    which is why I have had them sniff my boot and even run right into me.
    Now that really gives you an adrenaline rush!!!  Well, when I went
    through the check-out station the judge had to ask me if a couple of my
    coyotes weren't road kills.  The one, hit in the head at about 5 yards,
    even made the strongest stomach tweek a bit.  And I heard all the Mac
    truck jokes at the camp fire.
    
    	Bottom line.  I have tried 165 grain.  They will work, no doubt! 
    But, if you want a nice rug or life size mount (which looks real nice in
    a trophy room -- my dog thinks differently), you should use something a
    little smaller.  I use a .22-250, which is great.  .222, .223, .243,
    shotguns and pistols all work real well also.
    
    	If you get into hunting those yotes, try calling them sometime.  It
    takes some work learning the right songs (heavy metal rock works best
    HA), but once you have it figured out you are in for some real fun! 
    
    	Hope you have fun!

    I've been hunting calling coyotes for quite a while now,started in New
    Hampshire before we got a season here in Mass.also so hunt them quite a
    bit over hounds,trap them and do nuisance wildlife control in cenral
    Ma.I prefer the 222 rem. or a 12 guage with copper coated #2s.The 308
    is way to much gun if your concerned about pelt damage,but since it's
    your only gun I'd strongly recommend the smaller 22 cal. excellerator
    you mentioned,for a couple of reasons it's plenty capable of doing the
    job with little pelt damage,and it's highly unlikely for it to
    richochet because of the hyper velocity and small caliber.they tend to
    disintegrate upon impact with anything.Much safer in our small woods.My
    next gun is going to be a 10ga.31/2 mag strickly for yotes.I'd rather
    hunt them than anything else.Ron R.

    
    I had occasion to shoot a fox over the holiday (not on Christmas day -
    that would have been illegal).
    
    Taken at 130 yards with a single shot to the lungs from a service L1A7
    rifle (the FN rifle in military trim) using NATO full metal jacket
    ammo.
    
    Exit wound about 1"x.75"
    
    But then I didn't want the pelt...
    
    /. Ian .\

    ok guys,
    
    a .270 for Yotes....  which bullet??? 
    
    100 grn spitzer
    150 grn spitzer boattail
    150 grn round nose
    a hollow point???
    
    i've ruled out the 130 spbt...
    
    Fra
    
    

	I would use a FMJ of some sort.  Some of the reloading manuals give 
reduced loads for FMJ bullets for hide hunting.  If you don't want to keep 
the hide, shoot whatever shoots well in your rifle.
	Jim

>>                      <<< Note 874.9 by KNGBUD::LAFOSSE >>>
>>                     -< come on lets hear those opinions >-

    
>>    a .270 for Yotes....  which bullet??? 
    
>>    100 grn spitzer
>>    150 grn spitzer boattail
>>    150 grn round nose
>>    a hollow point???
    
>>    i've ruled out the 130 spbt...
    
    Fra,

	Just curious, but why would you still consider a 150 grn bullet
	after you've already ruled out the 130?  Seems to me like the
	main reason for considering the 100 grn. would be to avoid
	pelt damage as much as possible.  Wouldn't the 150 grn. be
	worse than the 130 grn. in this respect?
    
        Jerry

    I believe the 150 would have a much tougher jacket designed for larger
    animals, therefore hopefully less expansion and hence less pelt
    damage...
    
    this is all new to me this pelt stuff...  And until the time comes when
    i can afford a real honest to goodness pelt rifle the .270 and 6mm
    will have to fit the bill.
    
    Fra

         Hi all,
                In reply to my original note .0, my lovely wife solved my 
    problem for me.  She bought me a belated Christmas present, a nice
    used .22 Hornet- Savage, not sure what model, plain stock bolt, but
    a perfect hunting rifle.  You know, not too pretty to take hunting in
    the woods!  Chee-Wiz, that fits the description of every gun that I
    own, gonna have to change that in the near future. :-) Her we go,
    spending again!!
    
       Thanks again to all that replied, and Good Hunting!!
    
                        << Jeff >>

    
      Thought I'd try and revive this note.  I recently purchased a
    Remington POS in .308.  The POS is the sniper rifle that Remington
    sells to SWAT teams.  It has a composite stock, free floated barrel,
    adjustable trigger, etc.  I wanted something I could use for a long
    range deer gun and also on varmints.  I plan on taking this to PA.
    in the near future to hunt chucks.  What are you opinions on a good
    load, handload or otherwise?  Ideally I'd like to find a factory load
    that utilizes a light HP bullet.  Any ideas?
    
    Jeff

    Jeff
    
    I have a 30/06 load that I use for coyote and chucks. I use the 110 Gr
    Hornady sp. I'll have to look at my books. Don't recall what powder
    4350 or 4895. I beleive 110 is the lightest .30 bullet from the major 
    mnufactures. The load is very accurate 5 shots in 1/2 inch form a REM
    721 and very light recoil. 
    
    Keith
    

    Jeff
    
    Checked my load book for the 30-06 110gr varmint load.
    Used 55gr of 4350. As I mentioned this is a very accurate load in my
    rifle. Performance should be similar in the 308. Check the manuals 
    for the suggested loads in your 308.
    
    Keith