Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Did you clean the barrel and then look to see if the scoring were there
    or not?
    
    I find it hard to believe that the shot scored the barrel.  As far as I
    have read, the debate isover whether or not steel shot ruins a choke or
    not.  My understanding is that it will wear out a full choke rather
    quickly compared to lead (but not 1 box of shot).  HOWEVER, the other
    interesting thing is that steel won't pattern well with a full choke
    anyway.
    
    What choke does your gun have?
    
    What I have found to work is a modified choke.  Jeff Amberson, who
    rarely steers me wrong, concurred that modified is a sound choice.  He
    also recommends number 2 shot for people that are used to using number
    4 lead shot.  The combination of number 2 shot with a modified barrel
    is working better for me than number 4 shot with a full choke that I
    used to use with lead.
    
    As a result, I intend to have my full choke 1952 Browning Auto 5 Light 
    bored down to modified choke.  I predict that ducks will drop next fall
    :-)
    
    I have used steel in my Browning and have observed no marks that didn't
    come clean with a ram rod and a little break free.
    
    /brett   

    
    
    It doesn't make sense to me that the steel shot could be damaging the
    barrel that close to the chamber.  The shot hasn't even entered the
    forcing cone (a tapered section of the barrel just prior to the choke).
    My guess would be that the wads, which are very stiff are somehow
    leaving what I would call "skuff" marks.  Sort of like the ones you get
    on a kitchen floor.  My Winchester model 1300 has shown signs of this,
    I've shot about 400 rounds of steel through it.  This skuffing usually
    comes off when I clean the gun, using a brush soaked in Hoppes or
    "Break-Free".  
    
    From all the reading I've done any change in your barrel should be
    noticed around the forcing cone.  This is the most likely area for
    damage...as the cone tries to compress the steel.  The change would be
    a visible bulge in the barrel, this however is suppose to not pose any
    risks to the shooter, and is just cosmetic....so the 'experts' say.  I 
    can't believe you would have that damage unless your using a full choke or
    have shot hundreds of rounds through it or both.
    
    My cousin hunts with a very old Belgian Browning Auto 5, he had the
    barrel re-choked to modified and hasn't seen any problems whatsoever.
    
    I'm not sure if what you have is what I've seen, but my skuffing comes
    off after a good cleaning.
    
    Kevin
    

    
    It is suggested that the early Brownings manufactured in Belguim are
    not use in conjunction with steel shot. The reason I was given was that
    the barrels were a little thinner and the metal wasn't as strong. It is
    said that the shot would cause "Sparks" to come out of the barrels,
    thus indicating that the steel is gouging the barrel.
    
    
                                                           Guy
    

    I like Kevin's skuffing theory, but both my 12 and 20 gauge show
    signs of what I'd call scoring. It didn't come off no matter how
    much I cleaned. I t doesn't make sense though because the shot comes
    out surrounded by the plastic wad. The wad falls behind after the
    shot/wad leave the barrel, hitting the ground in front of you a
    fairly good distance. I'm going to look again tonight to see if
    it might be "plasticy looking".
    
    Marty

    
    I shoot a Remington 1100 Trap, that I purchased in 1971. Two years ago
    at a local gun-show, I purchased a 28inch vent/rib barrel with
    Mod-Choke. So far steel shot is performing with no problems.
    
    BTW: Now I have three barrels, 30inch full, 28inch mod, Slug barrel.
    
    Rick
    

    Thanks for the info to all.  The scuffing theory sounds like that might
    be it.  I couldn't figure out how shot would do the scoring when it
    should be held inside the wad/cup at that point either.  By the way,
    the gun has a modified barrel on it.  I cherish this gun and was really
    shocked when I looked down what I expected to be a clean tube only to
    see what I hope are the scuff marks.  Never experienced them before
    however when shooting lead shot.  I'll give it a real good cleaning and
    see what's there.  Pete
    

RE: .0

 It's plastic residue. Steel shot, even though it is steel, is still softer 
than the barrel steel so it's impossible for it to score or otherwise hurt the 
bore. The choke area is a different story though. Steel shot does not deform or 
compress like lead shot does so when it hits the choke constriction it tends 
to pack up and actually creates a minor bore obstruction. This is why some 
older shotguns will show "ringed" bores from using steel shot. The 
combination of thinner barrels and steel shot is a no-no.

 The older Brownings and Ithacas are notorious for barrel ringing.

  The easiest way to remove the plastic scuff marks is to take a section, 
(or sections depending on how far up the tube it is) of your shotgun cleaning 
rod with the brass brush screwed into one end, chuck the other end into your 
electric drill, wet the brush with Hoppes, Shooters Choice, Break-Free CLP, or 
whatever and spin it in the barrel. Push out the crud with a wet patch, dry 
the bore and take a look.

 Repeat till all the scuff marks are gone.


   Corky

As long as we're on the subject, I have a specific question I want to
ask.  I suspect that someone who participates in this file should know
the answer.

I have a Winchester Model 12.  According to the serial number, it was
made in 1916.  I think that somehwere on the barrel the words "made
of nickel steel" or something like that appears.  If not, there's some
reason, I can't remember just what, that I know that the barrel is made
of nickel steel.  On top of all of that, it has a poly-choke installed.
Before anyone jumps my case about the poly-choke, let me say that it
was installed by a previous owner.

The gun is in good working condition and hasn't given me any trouble.
So, the question is, is it safe to shoot steel shot in this gun?  Will
the barrel hold up, and is the poly-choke a problem?  Also, if it is
ok, is there any specific choke setting that is unsafe?  I'm not into
hunting waterfowl, so I probably won't ever have the need to use
steel shot, but it would be nice to know.

Thanks,

Jerry

P.S.  For what it's worth, I patterned this gun using #7 1/2 lead shot
with four different choke settings (full, mod, imp and open).  The distance
used was 35 yds.  I was very impressed with the performance.  As I recall,
it seems like at a full setting, I had about 95% of the pellets in a
30 inch circle, modified produced 80-85%, improved and open both resulted
in about 60-65%.

RE: .8

>>So, the question is, is it safe to shoot steel shot in this gun?  

  Yes
>>Will the barrel hold up, and is the poly-choke a problem?  

 Yes and No.

>>Also, if it is ok, is there any specific choke setting that is unsafe?  

 No

Corky

>>                  <<< Note 871.9 by SALEM::TOWLE_C "Corky" >>>
>>                                 -< Go fo rit >-

>>Will the barrel hold up, and is the poly-choke a problem?  

>>> Yes and No.

Corky,

Would you mind elaborating on this?  I take it to mean that you don't
like the poly-choke, but could add some explanation as to why?

Thanks,

Jerry

    While we are on the subject of steel shot again, I would like to know
    what chokes you guys use with it.  Everything I've read said use a more
    open choke.  I've also found that to be true and I use a modified choke
    when shooting steel.
    
    So what's the question?  I was just in Sporting goods shop this
    afternoon and just happened to notice a shot guide from one of the
    shell manufacturese, Federal, I think.  For geese it suggested steel
    BB's and FULL CHOKE.  What gives?
    
    Mark,
    

    re .10
    
    I think Corky answered your second question based on 2 questions in 1.
    ....like you really asked 5 questions and got 5 answers.  So yes, it's 
    okay and no, the polychoke is not a problem.
    
    re. 11:
    
    I have gotten back into Duck hunting this year after taking the last
    two off.  This is the first year I've had to use steel.  I started with
    my lethal and favorite duck gun, my Belgian Browning Auto 5 in full
    choke.  Missed my first two boxes of ammo....or at least 45 shots.  
    
    I switched to my Winchester 1100 with skeet and modified.  The skeet
    choke didn't really get them for me but I've been dropping a lot of
    ducks with the modified barrel.  I dropped one that drew applause from
    another blind last Saturday with the modified barrel.  I admit it was
    a lucky shot, but that duck was dead before it hit the water.
    
    I have been using #2 for ducks.  I've been advised not to use BBs for
    geese but to use 2s for them as well.
    
    /brett
     
    

    Brett, why have you been advised not to use BB's?
    
    I too have used #2's in a modified choke with great success on ducks
    and geese, but I've also had good luck with #1 and BBs for geese out
    of the same barrel.
    
    My full choke didn't pattern worth beans and neither has anybody else's
    that I know of.  What I don't understand is why a shell manufacture
    would recommend full choke?
    
    Mark,
    

RE: .10

 Sorry Jerry, I guess I could have made it a little clearer. :-) 

 Bret is right too. I was answering both questions in that sentence.

 The barrel will hold up ok and the poly choke should be no problem.

 Polychokes are ok as long as they are installed correctly.

 The only time I've ever seen a "bad" polychoke was on a gun that whoever
installed it used soft solder and the user said that at about the 10th shot 
the polychoke decided it wanted to be someplace else... :-), like at the 
bottom of a duck swamp out about 50 yards. I put a new one on for him with 
high temp silver solder and 4 years later it's still there... :-)



 Corky

    re: .13
    
    I don't know.  I asked Jeff Amberson if I should use BBs for geese and
    he said, "Na, you don't need BBs for geese."
    
    By the way, I had my best day duck hunting ever on Saturday.  In the WA
    state regs, they tell you that you may begin shooting at 7:20 AM (for
    12/15).  I was sitting in my blind, watching my decoys at 6:30.  At
    7:10, I heard a guy open up on some ducks about a quarter mile away.
    
    At 7:19, 2 mallards came right in on my decoys....heading right for me.  
    2 Shots, 2 ducks.  Talk about luck.  They were coming in high enough so
    they almost landed in the blind.  The dog went out and got them.  I
    reloaded and we settled down when a flock of 4 more came.  One shot,
    one duck.  There it was 7:25 and I was done for the day.    I spent
    more time picking up the decoys than I did hunting.
    
    Luck.  Pure, luck.
    
    /brett

      Shooting geese over decoys I use #1's.  My feeling is that if your
    taking resonable shots (40yds and under) then I would rather hve the 
    increased pattern density of the 1's then the larger size shot of the
    BB's.  A one in the head at 40yds = a dead goose.
    
    Jeff

    OK.  The way Brett worded it I thought it was more than just shot
    preference.  I also prefer #1's for geese but do sometime us BB's for
    my third shot incase I need to take a longer shot to finish off one I
    hit.
    
    Brett, how are you finding the duck hunting out that way?
    
    Mark
    

    Well, now that I got into it here.....it's pretty good.  On the West
    side of the Mountains (Seattle and Puget sound area) I have seen lots
    of ducks.  I shoot everytime I go out.
    
    On the East side of the mountains ("the mountains" meaning the
    Cascades) I just got around to discovering the "Potholes Reservoir"
    are.  The reservoir itself was constructed (dammed) during the WPA. 
    Below the dam are hundreds of little "pothole" lakes.  Some have
    cutthroat trout, some have kokanee, some have rainbow, some have
    walleye, but they all have ducks.  Really neat.  I need to spend more
    time out there.
    
    Why, are you moving west?
    
    Should I call Dave and tell him Alice will be preparing the meals next
    fall?
    
    /brett

    SOunds good.  No I don't have any plans to relocate, but I figured
    if I did, that's where I would head.
    
    It's still worthwhile to jerk Dave's chain and tell him Alice is
    heading out that way.
    
    Mark,
    

    
    Last night I was reading the "NEW" Browning catalog, on the page that 
    they talked about their chokes they had a short paragraph stating that
    users of early Brownings (Belguim) should call a Toll Free 800 number
    for info on there specific gun. I'll try and post it here for future
    reference.
    
                                                          Guy