Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    The reason I prefer to "go to some 'camp' and pay large amounts
    of money to 'hunt'" is that I favor being up North where there are
    fewer hunters per square mile.  I consider hunting in the more
    populated areas of southern Maine and southeastern NH to be nothing
    short of dangerous.
    
    I can cite instances in each of the last 6 seasons where I've spoken
    to other hunters who have thought that I was a deer (I tend to work
    the thicker areas where visibility can be limited).  Fortunately,
    these people were safety-conscious enought to make sure of their
    targets.  But all it takes is one trigger happy nimrod to screw
    up...
    
    Also, the number of hunting accidents and unethical incidents are
    on the rise in these areas.  Tresspassing, accidental shootings,
    poaching (demestic waterfowl, owls, swans, dogs and cats seem to be 
    in vogue) are becoming very common.
    
    I guess I'd rather drive 300 miles and spend a week with my father
    in a remote area that offers less deer, but also less people.
    
    Mark.

Bob,

Your comments triggered great memories for me, too. In fact, this year was
one which created some great memories for me to ponder in future years.
My family and I got 3 deer in NY (where I'm from), and it was a super week
of hunting hard, and enjoying it much.

I would have to rank hunting in southern New Hampshire (Monadnock Region and 
north of there) as SUPERB. The deer population is getting very high (by NH
standards) and I had no problem seeing deer for the last 4 or 5 years. NOW,
getting one is a different story !  I actually could use some more hunter
pressure to move them around where I hunt in Peterboro and Stoddard, but
I like the solitude and un-posted land. Each year I find ACTIVE scrape lines 
in 3 or 4 different areas, and I alternate between them during bow, muzzleloader,
and rifle seasons. Twice I have harvested NH bucks over active scrapes. Love it!!

This year I saw a mature black bear at 60 yards, and really enjoyed the thrill.
Last year I stood eyeball-to-eyeball with a coyote who had separated a skipper
deer from a big doe which I was waiting for. And I really don't see hardly any 
other guys in the woods.

The problem is ,  HUNTIN' SEASON'S TOO SHORT (no matter how long it is !)



                                                 Regards,
                                                   Dave H.

>    The reason I prefer to "go to some 'camp' and pay large amounts
>    of money to 'hunt'"[...]

 Correct me if I'm wrong, Mark, but don't you do your own scouting etc. when
you go up north? The way I read Bob's note, it wasn't really the paying
big bucks <snicker> to go away to hunt so much as the guide sitting you in
a spot and telling you when to expect the deer to show up etc. such that you
are not hunting so much as target shooting at animals. At least that's the way
I read it.

 Frankly, I am looking towards taking a hunting trip next year, but I don't want
to be driven to a stand on a deer run and simply shoot the first deer that
comes along (then the season's over.) I think you'd be missing half the 
experience that way. Obviously, the desired end result is to get a deer, but it
seems to be more rewarding when you have to work for it than when it is
handed to you. Know what I mean?

 The Doctah

    Mark, you're right.  
    
    No, we don't use guides.  We scout the area on Sunday and early on
    during the week, and then hunt that area hard.  
    
    Bob, my point is that there are less hunters to deal with up North.
    
    Mark.

    re: .0
    
    I guess I'm missing your point.  You say in the "good old days" you got
    together with the people you prefer to hunt with (father and brothers
    in this case), drove to your hunting spot of choice, set up camp,
    scouted, had dinner, hunted, etc and had a great time with your hunting
    buddies.
    
    What's stopping you from doing that now?
    
    I do that every year.
    
    If you did some planning, you could get a hunt together, get dad on a 
    plane, or go visit dad.  If everyone has moved away and misses the good
    old days, then start planning your trip now and you'll have great
    memories of that hunt in 1991.
     
    We started planning our hunt to Montana 1990 on the way back from our
    hunt in Washington 1989.  This year, we're already quibbling over next
    year's hunts (one elk hunt and one deer hunt).  As for camp, I don't
    think you can get more rustic than our camp unless you took the
    woodstove (made from and oil drum) out of our 1952 army officers' tent
    :-)
    
    Most guides are people just like you and me that have hunted an area
    most of their lives (some aren't even that).  If a guide drives you to
    an area, points you to a stump and says sit there and shoot a deer at
    6:15, I'll be willing to bet that by 8:00 you'll be up and moving
    looking for that deer that never came by......just like when you decide
    for yourself to sit on a stump where you think you're gonna see a deer.
    Bottom line is that unless your on a game farm, a guide is just another
    guy that likes to hunt deer (or whatever) at best.
    
    /brett
    

    In fact, Bob, is your father well enough to hunt?
    
    If so, why not call him back and set up a hunt.  He probably misses
    hunting with you more than you miss hunting with him.  I hear there's
    nice deer in GA.
    
    The last tywo years I've had my father on salmon trips to B.C. and the
    WA Penninsula with me.  He's 64, recently retired and we haven't fished
    together since I was about 15.  Jeez, he loves it.  Sometimes I wake
    up the day after we get back and I hear him telling my mother about the
    trip out in the kitchen and it's great.
    
    Hope I'm not out of line here.
    
    /brett 

    Gee, I hope you didn't take my note as flack.
    
    Guy stated the point I was trying to make.  Just because a guide sends
    you someplace doesn't mean the deer (or whatever) are going to be
    there.  And how many of us can sit there for 2 hours (I'd never make it
    to 4 hours) without getting curious about what's over that next ridge?
    
    I've been with guys when we've hired guides and I haven't found that it
    took the sport out of it.  We did get to hunt some good places that we
    wouldn't ordinarily have hunted.  For that, it was probably worth it.
    
    The problem I have with guides is that a good guided hunt in say Idaho
    or Montana will cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $2K.  I just
    can't justify it, although I would expect to hunt (not necessarily
    score) a good area with appropriate gear.
    
    Rather, my M.O. is to try and find some guys that hunt the area or who
    would like to hunt the given area and start planning early.  It's
    cheaper, but you have to do a lot more work....so it's a time vs. money
    thing in my experience.  I've found a pretty good bunch of guys here
    that fit my style of hunting.
    
    This year in Montana we came out of the mountains on the last night to
    go into town (just where is this *town* anyway? :-) for a beer.  I met
    a local guide at the bar (more like a guy's living room with a tap), 
    He asked about how and where we hunted.  After I gave him a rundown he
    told me where I was definitly on the right track and where I was wasting
    my time.  I was feeling pretty good to see that our party was about 90%
    correct on where to hunt and where not to.  Of course, it took us 10
    days to figure this out, but we had fun and had chances to see
    game...just didn't.  I got my money's worth.  The party got together to
    socialize this past weekend (clean clothes and shaven) and appears that
    we all had a great time.  
    
    That's what's important.
    
    /brett

    
    Not all guides are alike, I know people who have gone on a "guided
    hunt" and all the guide did was wake them up in the AM, drive them to a
    stand and come back in a few hours to pick them up.  Then did the whole
    process over again for the afternoon.  This is basically target
    shooting at animals. Other guides do make you hunt, they give you
    access to territory and that's basically it, then they become more 
    of a hunting partner.
    
    I took .0 as saying he missed hunting with his family and friends, and
    to many people these days are going to the type of guide that tells you
    where to sit, does not let you hunt, just sit there I will be back to
    get you and the deer.  Whether you go a long distance to hunt is not 
    the question, it's how you hunt and the people you are with. 
    
    My family (father, uncles, cousins etc) go to upper NH each fall for 
    weekend hunts, we meet up there for breakfast early Sat AM in the woods
    around dawn, out at dark, then off to an overnight place. The
    importance of his hunt is just as much spending time with family
    members that you don't get to see as much as you'd like as it is going
    hunting.
    
    --Bob