Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Brett,
    
    We have a lot of blacktail around here.  I see them all of the time
    on the way to work.  In fact, I have a nice 2-point that comes down
    to feed on my place outside of Eugene.
    
    Size:  They tend to run smaller than both mule and white tail. 
    Maybe 80% of comparable deer.
    
    Horns:  In the ordinary situation the 80% rule follows with the
    horns, but I have seen some mighty nice racks come off of these
    local deer.
    
    The way they hunt them around here is early morning around the edges
    of clear cuts.  The area they tend to frequent is so dense with
    underbrush that it's almost impossible to hunt them in the woods.
    There are a lot of them in Ore & Wash and their population is growing
    nicely.  Once you get out among 'em, you'll find out why they do
    so well in this type of terrain.
    
    Good Luck.
    
    
    Ken 

    Yes, my neck is swelling.  We decided not to hunt until we get to
    Montana at the end of the month, but two of us broke rank and decided
    we needed to get out in Washington for the opener.  
    
    I've seen many blacktails around while steelheading etc.  I notice that
    they are more difficult to see, since their faces are blackened and
    there is no white flag sticking up in the back.  I've also noticed, as
    you say, that blacktail habitat is tough.  I've tried grouse hunting in
    some of these areas and found that I couldn't swing a gun even if I
    could see a grouse.  
    
    The place we're hunting is forks or better.  One of my friends says
    it's loaded with deer and there's never any hunters.  Another says
    there's never any hunters because there aren't any deer.  We'll see.
    
    Thanks for the tips!
    
    /brett

    Brett,
    
    I forgot to ask, "Are you going to hunt those blacktails with your
    300 Weatherby??".  
    
    That forked horn muley I hit with my 270 had a lot of bruised meat.
    I hit it in the chest as it was quartering away from me right to
    left.  The bullet broke a rib entering, cut the lower part of the
    heart off, and exited cleanly.  The amount of meat that had to be
    thrown away was, I thought, extraordinary.  Had I hit the front
    shoulder plate of either leg I could understand it, but as it was
    there wasn't anything hit that should have caused that trauma. 
    That 300 is going to ruin a lot of meat if you're not right on target.
    
    Ken  

    Oh, this is interesting.  I gotta follow up on this.
    
    What distance did you shoot from?
    
    What bullet, bullet wieght and what velocity (if you know)?
    
    I shot two antelopes with my .300 WM two years ago.  The first Antelope
    I shot was with a 150 grain Nosler partition that was travelling ~3500
    fps.  The darned Nosler blew up and made one hell of a mess.  The shot
    was a tad high and blew the tenderloin (and the ribs and the
    heart and...) out.  Lost a lot.
    
    The second antelope fell to a nicely placed shot that went right
    through, clean exit, and dropped it dead with a thud.  Didn't waste a
    scrap.  This antelope I took with a 150 grain SPBT by Sierra.
    
    Last year I took a mulie at extremely close range (40 yards or less)
    with my .308.  It was the same Sierra bullet and it was a pretty hot
    load (hot enough to hurt when you shoot at the range).  It too made
    little damage....... .30 going in.... .50 coming out.
    
    If you tell me you shot the deer with a Nosler, I'm gonna pull out the
    "I knew it" card. :-)
    
    To answer the question, yes I do plan to take out the old weatherby. 
    My friend who planned this trip says there are a lot of real open clear
    cuts with llllooonnnggg shots.  I plan to leave the Noslers home in
    favor of the Sierras (plus I think they're more accurate).
    
    I'll let you know what happens.  It turns out we both have to be at
    work on Monday, so we will only hunt two days :-(   I'm not sure if
    we can score in that time frame.  I need a coupla weeks :-)
    
    /brett
    
    

    I have shot several whitetail with the .300 Wby using the 180 grain
    Nosler with little meat damage except that the lungs were a glob of 
    gelatin. The deer died and laid down when hit. I believe that the 180
    grain causes less damage as it does not expand as violently as the 150.
    
    carl

re:
    
>>    I shot two antelopes with my .300 WM two years ago.  The first Antelope
>>    I shot was with a 150 grain Nosler partition that was travelling ~3500
>>    fps.  The darned Nosler blew up and made one hell of a mess.  The shot
>>    was a tad high and blew the tenderloin (and the ribs and the
>>    heart and...) out.  Lost a lot.

	Brett, when you say "blew up" you mean core jacket separation?
	I have never heard about this with a partition. In general the
	partitions loose most of their frontal sections, but the part
	of the bullet behind the partition stay together providing
	enough mass for good penetration. Did you recover the bullet?

	I would say that - in my experience - because the partitions shed
	their front parts, they tend to expand to a smaller diameter
	providing better penetration and less meat loss. Could it
	be that lightspeed velocity of yours, combined with a thin skinned
	animal had the front section blow up "all the way through"
	(I am not sure exactly how to explain this, do you follow me?) ? 
	Certainly, the velocity has something to do with the expansion
	characteristics.

	Btw, where did that critter stand, 2 ft from your muzzle?
	Some stalk that must have been, have you thought about
	switching to bow hunting? :-)

							- Mike

    

    re: .5
    
    Wow.  I would have thought that 180 grains would be a big round out of
    a weatherby mag for a deer.  In a .308, yea.  A weatherby?  I was
    really wanting to load down to 130 grains but couldn't find much in
    .30.    But I'm not arguing with your observation.  If it works, I
    won't knock it.  I may even try it.  I have some loaded up.
    
    re: .6
    
    The shot was at least 100 yards.  He was running left to right (man,
    can they move).  I led heim by about two lengths and nailed him in the
    upper half of the rib cage.  
    
    I think I recovered the bullet.  I didn't actually weigh all of the
    fragments, but I'd say there was 150 grains their.  There were certainly
    more fragments than just the tip there.
    
    See, I would have thought that a *Sierra* would blow up on contact at
    that speed hitting something light like an antelope...as you suggested.
    I thought Noslers were supposed to stay together better.  
    
    Just me personally, but I've had better luck with Sierra and Speer.  I
    find that I lose a lot of accuracy with Noslers.
    
    /brett
    
    3500 fps isn't outrageous for a weatherby.  I mean the goal is to have
    a flat shooter over long distance when you are in open territory and I
    find this gun to be good for that.  Of course, I try to tone the
    bullets according to the momentum.  I would not select this gun as my
    Maine hunting rifle unless I was going to sit at the edge of a *big*
    clearcut.
    
    Besides, after the recipes I read in American Hunter for weatherby a
    few years ago, I decided my loads are for wimps.  Mine aren't hardly
     even compacted!  Sometime I can even hear the poweder moving around
    when I shake them :-)

    Those are factory loads I am using. Several years aga, I went into 
    a sporting goods store in St Louis, when I was there for several days, 
    and found 5 boxes of noslers on sale for $19 a box. Almost broke my 
    wrist with the whiplash as I reached for my wallet. 8^). Some kid must
    have marked the price as the Noslers and the regular 300's were all
    marked with the same price. This was shortly after I had bought the
    gun and had no ammo for it yet. at that price it was about equal to
    buying brass aand nosler bullets for reloading. I figured beens I need
    brass any way, go ahead and buy these loaded rounds. I have shot a
    little over a box of them zeroing the scope and for hunting.
    
    I usually shoot regular bullets for plinking. When someone wants to see
    what its like to shoot the Weatherby, I like to use a coke can of water
    with a hi stepping 150 grain bullet. this sure does impress them with
    the water flying and the can ripped into several pieces.
    enough rambling for now
    
    regards,
    Carl