Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    >I a resident of NH and would like to hunt grouse.  After reading 
    >the literature that comes with the licence for hunting I have a few
    >questions.  Hopefully you guys can help.
    
    Well we can try
    
    >1)  The book said you could only shoot ruffed grouse, what is the
    >	difference between these and spruce grouse?
    
    The ones that scared the *&$# out of you when they flush, they are the
    ruffed grouse (or partidge), spruce grouse I believe is much bigger.
    
    >2)  The license I have been buying for the past couple of years is the
    >	hunting license with a dear tag, can I shoot grouse on this
    >	license?
    
    Yup, you bought a hunting license, you can hunt birds (except pheasant
    duck and woodcock(?) with this, unless of course you bought just a 
    big game license (if there is one.)
    
    >3)  I noticed under another category (crow I believe) they mentioned
    >	a SEALING is required.  What does this mean?
    
    Don't believe it was crow, I think you need to get coyote sealed,
    basically, I believe all it is is that you call the game warden and
    he takes care of it (correct ?)
    
    With grouse, assuming you can hit one, it ain't easy, you just toss it
    into your game bag.
    
    >I seem to see more grouse than deer while hunting and these birds look
    >mighty tasty, not to mention they have scared the ever living @#$% out
    >of me whilst stalking.  I have never hunted birds before so how does 
    >one go about cleaning one of these?  Must they be cleaned right away
    >or is later exceptable?
    
    I tend to see alotof them deer hunting to, but if I go back to grouse 
    hunt, they ain't there.  To clean, there are several ways, personally
    I just breast them, pick all feathers off from neck to tail on teh
    stomach side of the bird and from wing to wing width wise, cut a small
    slit big enough for you finger in the neck, just above the breast bone.
    Stick in teh finger as far as you can down along the length of the
    breast and pull. Off pops on grouse breast. 
    
    There is also a method in which you stand on the wings grab the feet
    and stand up. Never tried this one.  I clean them when I get them home.
    
    Good luck, if you have never hunted birds before you'll need it, you 
    are going after what I consider the toughest bird to hit.
    
    --Bob
    
    -Kendall
    

    Topic 521 has some more on Grouse Hunting.
    
    Mark.

    Re: cleaning
    
    I always use the "stand on the wings and pull on the feet" method.
    Sounds rather unorthodox but it works great and takes about 10 seconds
    to clean the bird.  Partridge is the only bird I've found that you
    can do this.  Also, it doesn't work as well if the bird is stoned cold.
    
    Dave

    re .3 My partner's Vermont cousin demonstrated that methos for
    us last year. Us flatlanders was plumb amazed. Now if only I 
    could hit one with the bow...

    
    Yeah, that's it Rich, the armpits..... 8-)
    
    What you have left is the legs, guts and other anatomically rearranged
    pieces parts in your had.  You may discard this part of the bird.  The
    wings are on the ground, under your feet, with the breast still
    attached and clean as a whistle.  Just snap off the wings, rinse in
    cold water and it's ready to cook.
    
    The only process I've observed that is quicker and more amazing is 
    watching my wife and her mom clean perch...... :-)
    
    Dave

    Ok, I get the Idea, hopefully I can try it next Wed..

    Maybe I should have used "wing pits" instead of "armpits". :-)

    Thanks
    Rich

    
    Wow!  You guys are fast and good, thanks for all the info so far!
    
    One other question.  Should I put the magazine plug back in my pump
    shot gun to make it hold three rounds or does that apply to water fowl
    only?
    
    Good reading in the other grouse note....thanks Mark.
    
    -Kendall

    Leave the plug in.  If you can't hit with with 3 shots, you won't hit
    it with 5.  Besides, you'll save to shells.
    
    :^)
    
    Mark.

    WOW!  I am really impressed that you guys clean enough grouse that
    you *need* a fast approach!  While I have shot many shells in the
    general direction of grouse, I haven't spent a great deal of time
    dressing them!
    
    One thing you should know before setting out, the trees act as
    body guards for the birds.  Why, I don't know how many times I've
    flushed a grouse in an open, I would lead and just as I pull the
    trigger - bamb I blow the 8%$# out of some sampling that suddenly
    appeared!
    
    good luck,
    mark
    

    
    Mark,
        I seem to recall reading someplace that the reason a grouse
    can put a tree between you and him so quick is because his eyes
    are located on the side of his head and that allows him to see 
    behind him. So if he can't see you, you can't see him. I'll see 
    if I can find the article and post it here. 
    
                                         Walt

    
    	re.the stand up meathod
    
    
    	Is the bird face up?

    
    Kendall,
    
    
    Don't take this the wrong way. From the very basic questions you've
    asked, I suggest you study all that you can about the wild-game you
    intend to hunt. If you want to be a hunter, you should be able to
    identify game at a glance or from sign on the ground  to know what made
    it.
    
    You should learn to look into a feild or woods and be able to identify
    what habitat specific game like .
    
    You should know the state laws better than the game-warden.
    
    Do you know what a Timber-doodle is ? Do you know the difference
    between a hare and a rabbit? Does a Woodduck quack ?
    Do waterfall see in the dark? Do partridge see in the dark?
    
    Good Luck and welcome to hunting.
    
    Today to ba a good hunter we have to be lawyer, biologist,
    environmentalist.
    
    Rick

    
    RE .14 Rick
    
    Taken well, good advice.  I'm off to my local library tonight to get 
    more information on some of the things you've brought up.
    
    I've hunted Jacks and prairie dogs in Wyo. and Deer in NH, just haven't
    done anything with the scatter gun and fowl.  I really like this file,
    I've been reading it for a year now and find it extremely helpful and
    entertaining.
    
    -Kendall

    Kendall,
            A good book to buy is "The Field Guide to North American
    game". It's a great book and covers everything from Timberdoodles
    to moose to praire dogs and everything inbetween. It has lots of
    photos and helpful hunting tips. Each chapter also has 3-4 sections 
    on habitat, tracks, game behavior etc.  Definitley worth getting...
    
                                             Walt
    

     Kendall,
      Next time you're up to my house I'll teach you how to snipe hunt.
    It's done at night, and you don't use a gun, but a burlap sack.. ;-)
    
    Bob

    
    	Snipe Hunting.... Brings back memories of being in the Boy Scouts
    on overnights.
    
    - Rob
    

     Ah yes, another boy scout who has earned his snipe hunting merit
    badge. Remember the "secret" snipe call?
     Of course, once initiated into the snipe hunter's society, you're
    obligated to teach at least three fellow scouts how to snipe hunt. :-)
    
    Bob

    
    Back to .0 for a sec
    
    > ...what is the difference between these and spruce grouse.
    
    As .? said, Ruffed grouse are the ones that shorten your lifespan 
    as you try to put your heart back in place! 
    They also have the characteristic inch wide black stripe across the
    span of the tail feathers, the spruce ones don't
    
    Spruce grouse spend a lot of time in..... spruce trees..(Hmmmm).
    However, they are   *** S T U P I D !!!! ***. You could walk right
    up to one and pat in on the back! There about as fun to hunt as 
    DEAD rabbits! They look pretty much the same, slightly bigger but
    you'd never know. If your out hunting and spot a grouse 10ft from
    you and it stands and looks at you (with a weird grin on its beak)
    its a spruce!
    
    Up here in Ontario, you need a separate small game license to hunt
    grouse, rabbit, pheasant. Grouse season opened up this week so I'm
    off to try my luck this weekend.
    							/ Andrew /

    Spruce grouse are protected in both NH and Maine.  I believe that
    spruce grouse have red circles around their eyes.
    
    Mark.

    Unless you're way up north (Pittsburgh) I wouldn't expect running
    into one.  I've been hunting them (Grouse) for years, and I've only
    run across Spruce Grouse in New Brunswick.
    
    BTW. Opening day in Pittsburgh this year was very slow, still managed
    5 birds in two days though, the rain Tuesday wasn't much fun. Did see
    my first black bear in the woods this year though.
    
    				Erik

    
    Walt - thanks for the title, is it currently on the shelves or is it an
    order item?  Yesterday I picked up a news letter from the NH Fish&Game,
    in it one can order booklets on the different game for this area, I'll
    be grabbing a few of those too.
    
    Re Bob Cabral- what a pal!  I'll hold the flash light, you manage the
    sack.  Gee, are snipe covered on my license too, how do you clean 'em?
    ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    re the rest:  So if I can whack it over the head, don't shoot it.  No
    problem.
    
    Thanks and keep 'em coming!
    
    -Kendall

    
    Kendall,
            I saw the book a couple years ago at Walden Books in the
    Auburn mall. I don't know if you're from Ma or not but the book
    is still around. I got the title a little wrong though, the real
    title is "The hunters field guide to North American Game". It was
    under the nature section in the book store. hope this helps....
    
                                             Walt

	There really is such a thing as a Wilson's Snipe. Even got a
	season on 'em in Florida ... listed in the small game regs
	and everything.

	AA

     
    RE .25 AL -
    
    They have a sipe season here in NH too.  I came across them in one of
    the books I was reading friday night.  They are a shore line bird, hang
    out in the mud flats and marsh area.  Around WWII they closed the
    season on them, populations were down.  From what I read they were a
    pretty popular bird to hunt, the old decoys are now collector items.
    
    -Kendall

    From NH migratory bird hunting regs:
    
    Common Snipe - Sept 15 through Nov 30
    		   Daily bag limit 8
    

    Re .6
    	Dave, Well last night a had the chance to try the "Step and Rip"
    method of Grouse field dressing. It worked well. The Bird was shot
    up pretty badly, but the breast meat was intact. 
    	It was the first time out for Sam (My younger Lab) She had her first
    bird in a hour. I pretty happy with her performance. She stayed within
    15 yards  most of the time. She did range off a few times, but that was
    the exception. Next week she gets to try duck hunting. This should be
    interesting. 

    Rich 

    Glad you had some success and that the dressing method worked....
    
    Good luck with that pup.  Sounds like a winner!
    
    Dave

    Dave,
    
    funny you should mention this method of cleaning...  I just recieved a
    letter from Dave Ayotte, and he mentioned that procedure, says it's
    the nads for quick efficient cleaning.
    
    Fra

    Ok, it's probably in here somewhere.  Can someone point me to it, this
    Rip n'Tear process? Can it be used on larger birds?   Pheasents,
    Turkeys!
    
    Don

    
    Don -
    		It's in this note string a few back.

    No it doesn't work on any other birds....atleast the ones I tried
    
    (ducks, woodcock, ostrich)
    (ok, so I didn't actually try it on an ostrich.  I'm just assuming)
    
    The reason it works on partridge is because the skin is so thin and
    there isn't much of a skeletal structure to them.
    
    Hope you get to try it out.  Gee, I hope I don't go down in history
    as the person who taught the world how to suck a partridges head
    through it's a**hole.  Someone might get the wrong idea!
    
    8^*

    Since this is Grouse 101, let me ask a very basic question and
    solicit some help in determing when to shoot.
    
    In Maine, it is legal to hunt "Ruffed Grouse" aka "Pahdrich". 
    
    It is illegal to hunt whatever the other kind is..Soemthing like
    pine tree Grouse.
    
    My question is, how in the hell do you tell the difference when the
    damn thing takes off, scares the holy bejeshes out of you, going
    from 0-60 faster than Mickey Thompson ?
    
    Jim
    

    Easy, ya don't shoot.
    
    Mark.

    
    re .34 Jim -
    
    		  According to some of the other notes in here and from 
    		  what I have read, Ruffed grouse are the ones that will
                  flush and give you the heart attack.  Spruce grouse will 
    		  let you walk up and gut them with your knife without
    		  having to shoot them.
    
    		  -Kendall

    Spruce Grouse...That's them.
    
    
    But, I've walked within inches of Ruffed Grouse before he flushed....
    
    Now, why would it be illegal to shoort Spruce Grouse ?
    
    Jim
    

 There aren't very many Spruce Grouse around.

           I have found that in Maine Washington county has a large number
    of these birds. Spruce Grouse are a lot different in color than Ruffle
    Grouse. They have a small red dot next to their eye and are just about
    all one color scheme wheres reg partridge have numerous shades of brown
    and white. I have actually flipped Spruce grouse out of a tree before
    with my fishing pole. They are very tame birds and IMO they aren't fit
    to eat and not worth the expense of the lead. 

    
    Was out on the weekend to a local hunting area. Nothing beats a nice
    cool fall morning. Sun rising and slowly warming the forest. Gorgeous
    colours. No pressures...seems to bring an air of calmness back to
    the no-time,rush rush reality.
    
    Anyway ..... this is a grouse note. Let me add a few observations.
    I've been hunting grouse for a few years and I would like to invite
    comments on the cover that grouse take. Saturday I started out through
    the thick stuff. Briars, closely growing Spruce, fallen spruce 
    (trimmed for conservation) etc. I flushed 3 in 3 hours. Couldn't even
    get a shot. The trees were so close they were gone in a nanosecond.
    
    Before heading home I decided to try one last area... a cedar forest.
    Fairly mature cedars. Once 'inside' you could walk fairly upright.
    I flushed 4 in 3/4 hour. In a couple of areas, I was semi hunched over 
    and noticed a ruffed grouse sat on the ground right up against the trunk 
    of a cedar. Not what I consider 'fair game', I moved for position and a 
    flush. This happened three times! Grouse sat right at the trunk of 
    the tree!
    
    The question is: Under normal environment conditions (ie no rain, no
    snowstorms), what do you consider the best hunting cover? Thick forest,
    briars, thin forest, what type of trees etc. After this weekend I'm
    wondering why I bother forcing myself through fallen trees and briars
    when I can be walking upright through cedars.
    
    Oh well, exit calmness and serenity, enter hustle and bustle!
    
    							/ Andrew /
    
    
    

    
    
    We were out hunting rabbits saturday and the guy working the beagle
    flushed up a grouse. He winged and put it in his pouch. I love checking
    out wildlife, so I removed it from his pouch too look at it. What a 
    beautiful bird. Well this one was still alive, so he grabbed it by 
    the feet and hung it upside down. He then proceeded to give it a karate
    chop in the back of the neck, I prosume to break its neck, and its
    head went flying off!!! I couldn't believe it. I know he didn't mean	
    to have its head fly off, but it did.
    
    I now know that the leg pulling method of cleaning does work!
    
    Wildman
    
    Ps: It was wild to hear that beagle get on a rabbit- makes the ole
        heart pump!!

    
    Okay, the season is over but I have a question for this upcoming one.
    
    In NH, is it legal to pop grouse/pahtridge with a .22 cal
    rifle/pistol?
    
    -Kendall

    Unless the laws have changed this year it is legal. I know of a
    couple of people that regularly harvest partridge with 22's while
    blackpowder hunting for deer.....
    
    sjn
    

      O.K. guys, see if you can help me with this one! Have not hunted
    grouse in a long time because of lack of a dog. I know have a dog and
    plan on starting this fall. I live in N.H. and deer hunt in the southern
    part of the state. My question is how far east, west or north do I have
    to go too find them. I have hunted in the north country and in Vermont
    and have always seen grouse but when deer hunting in the southern part
    have never seen one. I am trying to keep my driving distance as short
    as possible and welcome any comments. 
    
                                                        Thanks,
                                                        Bob

    re: .44
    
    If this is the same Bob Lee that worked at APO...  you'll have
    to drive about 3� miles north on Mammoth Rd.  And if it's not,
    well then...  
    
    Last year while hunting bunnies in Londonderry I got the poop
    scared out of me by one of these flying critters.  There is a
    200� acre parcel of undeveloped land between Mammoth Rd (rte 128)
    and Noyes Rd that is bordered on the north by rte 28, and on the
    south by Bartley Hill Rd.  There are plenty of access areas into
    it but the easiest one at this time is probably from a project 
    cut short by the economy (aka another development).  The dirt
    road is off of Noyes Rd, about � mile south coming from rte 28.
    
    Happy hunting,
    Greg

       Yes Greg it is me! Just goes to show how much time I spend in my own
    back yard...... Guess I will have to start spending more time at home.
    Going to go out this week and look around with the dog, will try that
    area and let you know how I made out. Thanks Greg.
    
                                                                Bob

 What kind of weather is good for grouse? If it's cold, windy, and possibly
snowy (um, rather like tomorrow afternoon) is that weather acceptable, or
would I be wasting my time? I flushed a really nice grouse last saturday and 
it's been on my mind ever since. I'm eager to try the cleaning method
described in the early replies to this note. :-)

    Mark, I've shot (at :^)) grouse in just about any kind of weather.  In
    windy weather, I've found most of the grouse I've seen up in trees.  In
    the rain, I've found them in the thick stuff.  While still-hunting
    deer, I've seen them everywhere :^).
    
    BTW, a friend of mine showed me how to skin 'em.  This was simple and
    it didn't leave a mess of feathers.  Make sure you skin 'em before
    guttin' 'em.
    
    Make an incision anywhere on the breast and cut a vertical line from
    neck to anus.  Peel the skin back towards both wings and then cut the
    wings and head off.  After working the skin away from the (removed)
    wings and head, pull the skin from the back and down around to its feet 
    to a convenient place to cut the feet off.
    
    After the skin is removed, gut it and you'll then have a good looking
    bird that can be roasted.
    
    This method has worked great for the 2 birds I've shot in 10 years and
    26 boxes of shells of grouse hunting :^).
    
    Mark.

     Another good method of cleaning (don't know if this has been
    mentioned) is:
     Take almost any bird while still warm and fresh, lay on back,
    spread wings and step on base of wings with feet. Grab legs and
    pull hard and steady (not jerky). Result is skinned breast laying 
    with wings, legs and most of hide/feathers (turn inside out and
    cut out leg meat) are in your hands, guts are stretched in between
    wings/breast and hide/legs and are easy to remove and dispose. Has
    worked great for me on blue grouse and FRESH ducks. Never tried it
    on pheasant or others.
    
    chuck

    No replies on this string for quite a while, so i thought see if
    anybody has been doing any grousing this year (bird-wise, I mean).
    
    I went out over Labor Day weekend and got 4 big blues.  The problem is
    they are out on those ridges getting the grasshoppers and with just a
    little effort they are over the ridge and down in some of those
    canyons.  I was using a 12 g. with #6 shot and still 3 birds got away.
    I've hunted with a dog before and they aren't much good for this type
    of hunting.
    
    Ken

    We (in Michigan) are just past the 10yr low of the cyclic population
    trends.  In 1984, I was popping daily limit in a single burst from
    cover.  In 1990, you could not find any.  In 1992, they started to show
    up again.  I put up three just walking into my stand last weekend.  I
    seem to remember that they would never hold for my dog (a brittany). 
    But if I was quick enough, he'd sure find them and bring them back.
    
    Looking forward to next few seasons, too late to get ready this year
    (need gun - no money).  It's ruffed and sharp-tailed here.
    
    /bob
    

    
    We can't hunt them (NH) until Oct 1, saw lots of them last year
    during deer season :-)  I will be heading up for some deer scouting
    and grouse chasing (never can hit the buggers) the first Oct weekend.
    
    --Bob
    

    Season opened here on Sept 1st.  Also doves, quail, Hungarian
    Partridge, and chukars.
    
    Lots of blues out on the open ridges, but didn't see too many ruffed. 
    I don't know what a pin-tail is.
    
    On this Labor Day hunt I did run into a Lynx cat, saw 6 elk down below
    an archer on a stand (he couldn"t see them) and had 11 more elk run
    across the road in front of me.  It looks as though the elk season may
    hold up all right, but not many deer out.
    
    Ken