Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

        Hello,its me Jeff again, I just wanted to say that,for those
    of you who don't know me, I've just entered myself in the who's-
    who note 6.124 of this file. I've been an avid reader only for a
    long while,and finally got the gumption up to reply. This is a 
    great notes file,between Hunting,Firearms,and Archery, I'm turning
    into a note-a-holic ..... Hunt-a-holic outside DEC.
                                                       Jeff

    Hi, Jeff, look me up in the warehouse sometime, Bldg. 104.
    
    I've hunted Vermont for ten years now, have shot two bucks,
    both spikehorns around 100 lbs. dressed. The state of Vermont
    has been involved in a herd management plan for some years now,
    and results are starting to show - plenty of deer without the
    overcrowding that resulted in too-small deer and large winter
    kills. Their only problem is that the f&G dept. keeps being
    interfered with by the legislature, who are expressing the concerns
    of a lot of people who don't understand herd management. The dept.
    had a severe problem with overpopulation and overbrowsing, range
    damage, and winterkill. To counter this they initiated a three-
    part plan. The first part was a drastic reduction in the number
    of deer, accomplished by issuing a lot of doe permits. The second
    part was to maintain low numbers of deer for several years until
    the range regenerated. The third part will include a moderate 
    number of doe permits to keep the herd in balance with the range.
    Unfortunately a lot of people see only the short-term results -
    a lot less deer, and are dead set against any further doe permits.
    This is causing a political battle over herd management. The 
    consequences could be another boom-bust cycle. (IMO hunters
    who are ignorant of proper herd management are as big a threat
    to the deer herd as anti-hunters. Strong words ? Yes.)
    
    The range around where I hunt is in good shape, with deer looking
    healthy overall. (Our camp has averaged a 20% success ratio.)
    
    I understand that New Hampshire deer hunting is improving, but
    I'm still a Vermont hunter at heart.
    
    Dana Charbonneau

    

     I happen to hunt both states.  I live in N.H. and that gives me more
    of a chance to scout and hunt quite a bit around where I live.  I've
    also hunted Vt. for the past 15 years and have seen the deer heard
    there go from over abundandce to slim picken's.  I will say though,
    that the deer herd in Vermont is on the up-swing once again.  The deer
    are a little bigger and are starting to grow better antlers.  It's been
    a while since I've taken a deer there though.  I still love Vermont and
    think bowhunting there is still pretty good. 
     I have take a buck in N.H. the past five years in a row, mostly
    because, 1. I scout more, 2. longer seasons and 3, muzzleloader season
    is before firearms season vrs. after in Vermont.
     Bottom line;  Hunt where you can put the most time in.... both states
    have plenty of deer.
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Bruce

    re: 767.2...
    
      Finally, a logical person. I have been arguing with people around
    the plant (here in BTO) about the deer herd situation. I completely
    support the managment technique they have chosen (thin the herd,
    ect..). Personally I see plenty of deer during the season. It is
    not unusual for me to see 5-6 deer per day rifle hunting. Although
    its been 2 years since I have taken a deer, I never fail to see
    them. I usually hunt with 3 other people, and between the four of
    us, we usually take at least 2 per year.
    
      Some people around here feel they should "shut down hunting for
    2 years" to let the herd recover. Its hard to convince them that 
    that would be destructive to the herd in the long run. I personally
    have no complaints.
    
    -Ron-

    Jeff, I have hunted both NH and VT in the past, also Maine but if I was
    to start in a new "out-of-state area I would definately make in NY.
    Upper state allows you to use both shotgun and rifle and has a superb
    herd I think its the best place within reasonable driving distance the
    herds in most of the New England states is on the decline or being
    stablized. The Northern states are now getting serious about
    re-building their herds like Mass. did a number of years ago.
    
    Don

    
    I hunt only in NH, and have done so for about 5 years now. I have 
    noticed more sign and more deer seen as the years went by, so I 
    guess the herd is building up.  The state deer kill has also risen in
    the last few years which indicates an upswing in herd size. The state
    has basically stopped doe hunting in alot of areas by limiting it to
    a couple of days, if they allow it at all.
    
    To hunt in NH you can use either rifle or shotgun, some counties,
    mostly in the southern part of the state restrict you to shotguns.
    To get a NH license you need either 1) previous NH license or 2) 
    a license from your home state or 3) a NH hunter safety certificate.
    
    Hope you enjoy it where ever you go.
    
    --Bob
    

>The state
>    has basically stopped doe hunting in alot of areas by limiting it to
>    a couple of days, if they allow it at all.

 Actually, in the more populated areas, the doe season has been extended
considerably this year. There's only a couple of WMUs that have little or no
doe season, and they are in the middle of the state (lakes region). The southern
part of the state and the northern part have quite healthy herds.

 The Doctah

ps- And ANYONE can hunt does. No permits are needed. You just have to hunt them
at the beginning of the season during "any deer" season (which is different
in each WMU, so check first).

    I hunt NH. The northern part of the state offers some really large
    deer. Out of a party of four one of us usually takes a deer durning
    the black powder season. And if we don't its usually because of
    a botched shot. You know, the something got in my eye when I pulled
    the trigger syndrome. I like the northern part of the state cause
    its so remote. You could walk into Canada without running into anybody.
    I saw deer almost every day I hunted last year.
        I can't compare NH to VT as I have never hunted VT.
    
    sjn

       I'd like to thank all of you so far for the informative comments,one
    of the reasons I'm interested in (out of state) hunting is because
    I have this Savage Model 99-.308 thats just itchin to get used.
    Last time I used it was about 5 years ago in N.Y. That's too long
    for a nice rifle to sit and not get used. When I originally entered
    this note I was leaning more towards N.H. because of the lengthy
    seasons,this to me would be a plus in that more time/more trips
    could be made etc. Interesting point made about/for N.Y.,I'd like
    to hear more about that also if anyone could expand on that also.
    
       Dana,I'll try to catch up with you one of these days,I work in
    Bldg. 111-3 on second shift  - great shift for hunting!!!!!! I don't
    know if you remember me or not,but I think that you and I took a
    handgun safety course at Holyoke Revolver Club at the same time
    about 5 yrs.+ ago. I just recently have gotten into handgunning.
    
                            << Jeff >>

    One more thing about either state - you can hunt just over the Mass.
    border and be in fair deer country. My buddy and I make a trip
    every year to Halifax VT., just over the border from Colrain,Mass.
    on Rte. 112. Haven't gotten one but always good sign. If you 
    cross over into NH you can be in the woods just as fast.
    
    Dana (who used to work 2nd shift and bowhunted every morning :-))
    
    

     N.Y. is great.  This season will be my fifth year hunting there.
    We hunt the Catskill region.  The herd is in fantastic shape. 
    Management permits (doe) are in abundance.  I hunt with a groupd of 
    between 4 to 10 other folks.  In the last 4 years everyone who has
    applied in our group has recieved a permit.  The permit allows you to
    take an additional deer.  So if you draw a permit you can take two deer
    one of which must be a doe.  Our success rate has been very good,
    better then 50%.
    
    Jeff 

    
    The season for the northern zone of New York runs from october 20th to
    december 2nd. This is a six week season and allows for many trips. I
    like it because it extends my hunting season. I can hunt there before
    Vermonts season and after Maines.

    
    New York, Vermont, whatever. Your not a real Deer-Hunter until you get
    one in New Hampshire.
    
    Rick
    

    A admirable feat when you consider that you are talking about a state
    that has a herd population that you can count on one hand...
    
    ;-)

     Yea, I have a buddy who gives me all kinds of grief cause I hunt in
    NY.  He says it isn't sporting cause there so many deer.  My reply
    always centers around the mental capablities o a person who would hunt
    deer where there arn't any.
    
    Jeff

    
    Hmmmmm?  Those I've taken must of migrated into N.H. from parts
    unknown.
    
    Anyway, If a N.H. deer steps out of the hemlocks, it's Lost !
    
    RE:15
    
    < my reply always centers around the mental capablities of a person >
    < who would hunt deer where there arn't any.                        >
    
    That's what we do in N.H., "Hunt", not spot.
    
    
    Ha Hee,Hee,Ha........
    
    Rick                                        

    ....and hunt and hunt and hunt and hunt and hunt etc..............
    
    Jeff

    
    What a way to go huh, At least when we see or bag a buck in N.H. it's
    a "BUCK" with a rocking-chair on its head.. instead of some pencil's.
    
    
    But, un-like those who would rather hunt quantity instead of quality, 
    well, All I can say is what all us N.H. natives say to outastaters,
    
    We aint got no deer'a upa  here'a  ayup, yes'sa.
    
    
    
    Rick
      
                                             

    Whoa Nelly.
    
    If you're looking for antlers, there's only one place to hunt and
    that's Maine.  I love to hunt deer in NH as much as the next guy,
    and I've seen and shot my share of NH deer, but after dragging at
    least one Maine buck out of the woods for each of the last 9 years,
    and after visiting several other deer camps during our stays in Maine,
    I can assure you that Maine offers the largest bucks with the biggest
    racks of all the New England states.

    And that ain't no jive.
        
    Mark.

    
    Maine....HA!  The only difference from Maine and N.H. is we don't
    boast over here in N.H.
    
    Beside's, Maine deer taste like pine-tree's.
    
    Rick. (In N.H. out of state'ers and Natives have the same opening day.)
    

    Hey Rick, buy a clue will ya?  :^)
    
    Listen, I'm a NHer like yerself.  I've eaten both Maine and NH deer
    and they both taste great.  In Maine, they shoot more deer, bigger
    deer and better antlered deer than NH and they have ONE LESS DAY
    A WEEK to do it!
    
    I don't hear any Mainers boasting, just us New Hampsters.
    
    

    
    RE: 21
    
    < I don't hear any Mainers boasting, just us New Hampsters.>
    
    Am I boasting ?   Well, I guess I am.
    
    They shoot more deer in Maine because there's more hunters. 
    
    Anyway, I think Maine is a great state and alway's enjoy myself while
    up there.
    
    Rick
    
    P.S.  I hope you guy's know I was busting (jokeing) with you all these
          last few notes.  
    

>In Maine, they shoot more deer, bigger
>    deer and better antlered deer than NH 

 I would go so far as to say that they have more big deer in Maine since the
herd is bigger and there's more habitat, but the "best of the best" each year
routinely shows that Maine and NH are extremely comparable. The deer in northern
NH get very large. There are a few 250 and 260 lbers taken every year in NH,
just like in Maine. Frankly, I think it would be easier to get a really big
deer in Maine since there is less hunting pressure per unit area than in NH.
They're here in NH. It's just harder to find them.

 The Doctah

    Rick, I know you were just hosing us.
    
    Anyway, I figure if I can convince the non-residents to pass by
    NH and continue up to Maine, there'll be more rocking chair bucks
    for the rest of us.
    
    Mark.

    
    I agree !
    
    Rick
    

    Mark... re:.19
    
    Maine dosn't have half the size of the racks taken outa VT...  ;^)
    
    seriously though... I was under the impression that rack size in Maine
    is really secondary... they base their trophys on weight, and while 
    you may shoot one with a decent rack (decent... ha, i've seen a few and
    their awesome) their not actually record book material, acording to 
    what i've read. As far as i'm concerned, 180+ lb 8-10 pointer is a 
    trophy to be plenty proud of.
    
    And for all you NH boys, Mass deer are toting around some pretty decent 
    sized head gear, just ask Steve Drumm!!!
    
    Ahhhh, but VT's got all of em beat!  ;^)
    
    Fra

    More on Vermont deer project. From "New England Game and Fish" 
    August '90. 'Vermont Bucks Are Back'
    
      "That Phase III of the management program is working is reflected
    in the kill numbers from last year. A total of 9,227 deer were
    taken in all three seasons, up from just over 7,000 in 1988.
    The total included nearly 8,000 bucks during the rifle season,
    up from 6,400 in '88 and over 100 more during the muzzleloader
    season. The bow season numbers nearly doubled to just over 1,200,
    reflecting the widespread availability of deer."
    
    The plan is working quite well, hopefully it'll be even better
    this year. Ask me Monday :-)
    
    Dana (who will be frothing at the mouth by Friday night :-) )
    
    

    dana,
    
    your heading up to VT also???  Where do you hunt???  
    
    FROTHING isn't the word!!
    
    Fra

    Dane, Fra,
    
    		Save some of the Bucks for us rifle people.....
    
    	Red

    I hunt in Wells/Poultney/Middletown Springs - a few miles from
    Lake St. Catherine, southwest of Rutland. (Why three towns? -
    the farm we hunt on is at the intersection of three town lines.
    Depends which run I play :-) )
    
    Dana
    
    PS. Red, don't worry, I always shoot the little ones and leave the big
    bucks :-)

    Re. Dana -.1
    
    	> Red, don't worry, I always shoot the little ones and leave the
    big ones.......
    
    	No that's what I call a Bowhunting Sportsman.....
    
    	P.S I hunt up in Hanksville, near Hunnington, the Hump etc..
    
    	Red

    
    	Good luck guys, I hope you bag one!  Incidentally, I will make my
    own prediction of this bow season that the kill will actually be 
    lower this year than last for one reason.  The feed seems to consist
    of only a nut crop (poor apples from talking to most hunters here) and
    it's well dispersed.  The deer are all spread out and it will be hard
    to find concentrations.  The rifle kill will probably be as predicted.
    Nobody in the F&G ever predicts Vt's bow season because there's so
    much variability based on weather, feed patterns, etc....  
    
    - Rob
    

    re .32 Apples here in Western Mass. are pretty sparse, too. 
    If you *do* find one that's producing it will be a 'treat' for
    the deer, so you might want to watch it.
    
    Dana (who leaves for VT. tomorrow at 10:00 :-) )

    Dana hit the nail on the head.  If there's a general absence of apples,
    mast crop, corn or other deer staples, if you *do* happen to stumble on
    a good crop, you'll do well to hunt that area hard.
    
    Mark.

    First weekend in Vt. - saw one small one on Saturday AM, a doe
    and her fawn Saturday PM. The weather was too warm and windy.
    No apples even on the most consistent trees, acorns in abundance
    higher up the hill. Deer were high early, late coming downhill
    towards the pasture below. When I go back I plan to move uphill.
    
    Encouraging to see 'em on opening day :-)
    
    Dana

    Dana,
    	I hunted both Saturday and Sunday in Vt.  I found the deer to be
    high this year with them coming down after dark (if at all).  You're
    right, there are TOO MANY acorns in the woods and the deer are every-
    where.  I found some rubbing and even a scrape!  This is early for a
    scrape.  Saw a bear Saturday AM and two deer on Sunday, no shots.
    This is going to be a frustrating year for me I can tell already.  I
    have found that the deer are bedded up high very close to where they
    are feeding in the nuts, and it's hard to tell what direction they're
    coming in from..
    	I haven't settled on a strong stand site because the deer seem to
    be wandering EVERYWHERE.  Stopping here and there at every other oak
    to pick up a few nuts and continuing....  ARGGGGH.  Now I have found
    some bedding sites and feeding sites/travel routes that look pretty
    good, I may have to put in a few evenings and hang tough to see
    anything.  Finding a good tree in the hardwoods for my portable stand
    is a problem!  All the trees are straight with no branches for cover!
    I like a little cover to break my outline up, but this is ridiculous.
    They'll spot me a mile away.  Got to think fast.
    
    Good luck when you get back out - Rob
    

    I was up in VT Saturday & Sunday.  Under the effects of a full moon, we
    didn't even see a deer.  Found lots of sign and some bedding areas that
    weren't far from our stands.  As in the last 2 replys the movement was
    very early in the AM and very late at night, well after dark, just
    couldn't get our timing right I guess.  Also very very hot and windy.
    Lots of leaves still on the trees, it was kinda nice watching the
    leaves fall from the trees.  It was raining leaves.......
    
    I'll be going back up on the 18th, hope the weather gets colder and the
    leaves drop faster.
    
    Good and safe hunting to all.....
    
    Steve
    

    
    
          Hey Rob,
                  In reference to .36 the point you made about wishing
    you hade a better mix of cover to siloette up against, but is lacking.
    
     I also use a self climber, and when conditions are as you described
    I find a nearby Hemlock or Pine and cut a few bows with my knife,
    then I attach them to my stand with a couple bread twist ties. This
    will help in breaking your siloette and also act as a masking scent.
    Works for me.... Good Hunting !!!
    
                          << Jeff >>

    
    Thanks for the Tip Jeff, I hadn't thought of that...  I think I will
    try it too.  
    
    - Rob
    

    Lenny had his bow license, but Saturday morning a grouse walked along 
    the road as he was driving to the store.  So, since we haven't seen 
    many deer signs this year up in back of our house he brought a shotgun
    up that afternoon.
    
    Wouldn't you know it, there was a doe up there about 500 ft. from the 
    house daudlin' around .... and no game birds.
    
    Nancy

    
     Saturday was to hot and windy, didnt even feel good about being in my
    stand. Sundays weather forecast was for overcast sky in the evening so
    i got a little excited just to have the sun set with a clear sky. I did
    manage to jump one small deer when i was leaving my stand after dark.
    Went out monday night with a misty rain and felt real good about seeing
    somthing. About 6 p.m i spoted 3 deer coming out in a freshly cut corn
    field about 150 yards away (didnt have time to stalk) to eat the corn
    that had missed the chopper wagon. I dont know if i want to place a
    stand on the edge of the field or stick to the stand that i have in
    the orchard (which has plenty of apples). They have been in the apples 
    prior to the season, and most likely will be back. This is the first 
    year there has been corn in the area. What i am wondering is, do they
    prefer this new type of food over what they usualy eat ??  I guess the
    only way to find out is to sit in my stand for a couple more nights
    and see what they do.
    
                                      just gimeeee one shot !!!
                                             AL

      All you folks have a good week.  Im off for NY to try and stick
    Bambi.  Be back on Wednesday for geese the rest of the week.  Everyone
    have a safe and fun time.
    
    Jeff