Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    I have to disagree. I had both red and orange on last year and had
    5 does just  about step on me. Although I was sitting at the base
    of a tree they did not see me until after I shot. When I first noticed
    them they were 75 yards away and I let them come wihin 30 feet.
    Not one of them noticed me. I had more red than orange on. I think
    they only see movement. Just my $.02.
    							Bret

    I've read an article about just such a thing... can't remember where,
    but it does state that deer can see colors, but no as we percieve them.
    Having 5 does almost step on you dosn't mean that they are color
    blind... while they may see colors and let it go unnoticed, any 
    movement will almost certainly be detected and action taken.
    
    Fra

    
    I've read the same article, can't remember where now...I don't think
    it's safe to assume because they "walked right up on me" that they 
    can't see color.  Maybe it was because there were several other bright
    colored (white...) objects close by, and your form was lost...etc.
    Granted they can't see the same color we can, they have no need for it.
    We all know deer have better vision in limited light, but in bright
    light their sight is actually worse than ours...there's always several
    variables to the equation...
    
    Kevin

I've seen some data, too, on the fact that deer have rods and cones in 
their eyes, so there is some speculation that they can perceive color. 
The main school of thought though is that the majority of their vision 
is black/white.  Here's where the fun begins.  

If you were to take a black&white picture of a hunter wearing a blaze 
orange vest, you'd see a big, white looking block where the vest is when 
you saw the developed picture.  That's out of context for what the deer 
should be seeing in the woods, so alot of times they might spook, especially 
if the sun is shining directly on your orange so it's literally glowing. 
Since all the hunter ever notices is the deer seeing him and spooking, 
the natural assumption is that the deer sees color.

The solution is to wear something that breaks up the pattern of the 
blaze orange, and there are a wealth of companies that make vests, 
coats, etc., that are camo pattern with the only colors being black and 
orange.  As further proof, my dad has consistently "out-killed" us the 
past couple of years, and up until last year he had a solid-orange 
jump suit.  It was kind of funny to see this orange blob floating thru 
the woods, but no one mistook him for a deer either.  Since he killed 
more deer than the rest of us (stand hunting I might add), that makes 
me believe there's more to deer seeing movement than seeing color.

just my .02,

Scott

    Well, I'm not convinced that deer see color.  And if they do, they
    certainly seem to ignore it.  Last year, I found myself in plain
    sight of 6 deer (does of course) who never saw me......until I moved.
    12 eyes looked right at me and bolted.
    
    This year, I walked right up to my buck and stood 40 yards away.  He
    looked right in my direction and studied me.  I was completely in the
    open and he stared at me for what seemed like a long time.  Let's say
    it was a mintue.  Even though I have "camo" blaze orange to break up
    the solid pattern, this deer was not effected, which led to his
    ultimate journey to my freezer.
    
    Now, whether they see color or not, I strongly believe that it doesn't
    bother them.  If you feel you have to wear green camo and all that,
    you have a right to wear whatever you want.  The way I see it, if you
    wear orange you have not decreased your chances of getting a deer one
    bit.  On the other hand, you have significantly decreased your chances
    of being shot by some other person in the woods with a gun (notice I
    didn't say hunter).
    
    Wear your orange.
    Look like a nut.
    Get your deer.
    Live a long life and prosper.
    
    /brett

    re .5
    
    I really am not convinced that wearing blaze orange reduces my chances
    of being shot.  In fact a good friend of mine, my wifes uncle, has
    been teaching NRA Hunter Safety for a long time, and he contends that
    people are shot while wearing BLAZE ORANGE.  In fact he has stated
    that hunter mishaps have gone up in states with mandatory blaze orange
    requirements.  I don't have any support for his data, but the logic
    is there.  The logic is that if you're spotted moving, peoples
    curiosity will lead to them picking up their rifle and "scoping" you.
    It has happened, I know people who have had it happen to them, and it
    is very dangerous.  A lot of people out there leave there safety's off
    when hunting...it's a fact, a sad one at that.  That's why I avoid
    people in the woods.  I generally move so slow that I see people long
    before they see me, that's the way I like it.  So I would rather be
    concealled than a glow on the mountainside...I'm not worried about the
    deer seeing me, just the other hunters.  
    
    For the record I don't wear camo...RED/BLACK check, with green Johnson
    wool pants.  A lot of hunters I know where nothing but green/black,
    I've seen them coming through the thickest brush, and identified them
    without any problems.  So don't scope anything unless 100% sure it's a
    deer (carry bino's if you need them) and only shoot deer when hunting
    deer and we'll all be safe (no poripines...raccoons...etc.).
    
    happy safe hunting...
    
    Kevin

    Respectfully, I completely disagree.
    
    You will only get the message across to *s0* many people about
    responsible hunting.  Even if you get it to 99%, you've got 1%
    of the hunting population out there shooting "sound" shots and
    "if it's brown it's down" shots and "a guy wiping his ass with
    toilet paper" shots.  Sorry.  Can't buy it.  If you are seen,
    you are a hell of a lot safer than if you are not.
    
    I'm the opposite from you.  I want to be seen before I see them.  I
    know I'm not going to take a shot unless I see and positively
    identify my target.  I don't know what the other guy will shoot at.
    The chance of a guy shooting at blaze orange is much lower than a guy
    shooting at movement.
    
    Ken, if you hunt near me, you're safe.  I won't shoot you.
    However, I can't guarantee what the guy in the next camp will do.
    
    /brett 
    

    
    I agree with (.7 Brett). 
    
    I also want to be seen before I see them and I also know I will
    not shoot unless I see an positively identify my *TARGET*.
    
    this is probably why I have only two deer to my record. I don't
    care if I get a deer or not. I'am out their for the relaxation
    and fellowship of hunting with my friends.
    
    While I'am hunting and I hope it never happens to me or anyone else
    but,someone shoots at me he/she better have a very f&&& good reason
    to be shooting --because if they hit or kill me I think my lawyer
    and my family will have a field day in courtroom.
    
    I for one wouldn't wish this on anyone, so if you have been to a
    hunter safety course, you know the *RULES*,if you have not been
    to one yet I and others who have an passed wish you would not 
    hunt until you do take a hunter safety course and pass it.
    
    
          a happy & safe hunting to all
    
         Pappy <the Great Pumpkin>
    
    
    
    
    p.s. Canada--9 days / 216 hours..................
    
               

    I also agree With .7 Brett.  As I stated in another note, bullets
    frequently pass completely through the target as do broadheads.
    I'm concerned with the other guy who's attention is on the deer
    and not the backstop.  I don't want to be the backstop!  And if
    I can help that other guy see me so he doesn't shoot me, I will!
    I sure appreciate those who make it easier for me to spot them out
    there (although you can never take anything for granted, can you?).
    
    In Ky. a hat and vest (or coat) of solid hunter orange are 
    required.  No orange camo or tiger stripe.  And I've seen too many
    successful deer hunters here to believe that a deer's eye picks
    up orange as brightly as our's do.
    
    Seven Days And Counting
    
    Glenn
    
    
    

    regards to wearing bright orange...i wouldn't have it ANY other way!
    my hat,coat,vest (ya vest too!),pants,gloves and damned socks are all
    blaze orange! still scares the hell out of me that my boots are brown
    and my scarf isn't a hunter color..but folks i've hunted with say they
    see me coming long before i can see them...thats fine by me..gives
    them plenty of time to realize its me before i even get into range!
    
    couple years ago ran across some guy in the woods wearing brown
    'dickies'  a regular coat and just an orange hat...i moved away from
    his direction  kinda quick!
    
    al

    You should see Jeff in his orange overalls..Now that you can see
    a long way away....
    
    I've never seen orange boots..Sounds like a unique business
    opportunity.
    
    In Maine the law requires only 100 square inches of blaze orange.
    That's about the size of a big hat....I know people who only wear
    orange gloves or an orange hat. Lots of old timers still wear red and
    black checks with an orange hat.
    
    Me, I wear orange hat, gloves and jacket. I'm a size 46 so that's alot
    of orange....
    
    Later.
    Jim

    
    
    	I wear the "traditional" red and black checkered jacket with
    dark green pants.  Sometimes I wear a orange cap, but usually
    it's a red one.  This combination sucks in snow because of
    the contrast with the light background.  I believe you're better
    off with the blaze orange on snow not just for the safety sake,
    but for blending in with the brightness of the woods.
    	I agree with wearing some type of camo orange pattern on dry
    ground as this would help break up the solid outline.   Again,
    not to mention the safety quality.
    	However, in all of this, I can see Kevin R's side with not being
    seen!  Generally I hunt in areas far from roads and generally don't
    see many other hunters.  Sometimes I may only see 2 or 3 a season!
    If I hunted in a high hunter-density area, I do think I might wear
    more orange.
    
    - Rob   who_hates_crowds
    

    
    
        I believe Deer cannot see colors.... I've read quite abit
    about this issue and they see black and white.. They pick out
    imagis and figure them out with their keen sense...  After
    watching a video over the weekend i'm convinced...  I would
    of written on Friday but i wanted to check this out....
    
    
            And yes Jim, I do wear alot of orange... Cause i know the
    way Rick and Donnie shoot... (-:
    
    
            See Ya Thursday....  YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
       Jeff

    	From everything I've read, deer don't see color but only shades
    of gray (from white to black).  BUT if you have ever seen a black
    and white photograph of hunters in the woods, blaze orange is the
    WHITEST of white - sticks out like a sore thumb from everything
    else.  
    	In Maine I wear just a Jones style blaze orange hat.  However,
    it's convertable to camo.  Includes goretex and thinsulate with
    ear flaps.  When I'm sitting early in the morning or late evening,
    I use the camouflage side.  (Not many humans where we hunt.)
    
    Andy

    
    I guess humans can't see color either. I was leaning up against
    a tree last friday and another hunter walked to almost on top of
    me (about five feet), I said "Howdy" and he almost jumped out of
    his clothes. So there is hard scientific evidence that humans cannot
    see blaze orange 8^)..... I also found another place to hunt.......
    
    SJN

>    I guess humans can't see color either. I was leaning up against
>    a tree last friday and another hunter walked to almost on top of
>    me (about five feet), I said "Howdy" and he almost jumped out of
>    his clothes. So there is hard scientific evidence that humans cannot
>    see blaze orange 8^)..... I also found another place to hunt.......

Makes you wonder how many deer he saw if he can't see you glowing...

Scott

    
    
      My wife & I had the same thing happen to us sat. morning so we
    left and went to another spot to hunt the rest of the day, she
    really supprised me she saw 2 deer coming towards us and the second
    one was a nice buck and he stopped walking at 50 yds but Carol couldnt
    see him because of a tree in front of her and she said later that
    after he started walking again she didnt think she could make a
    clean killing shot. I was so proud that she said that especially
    since this was her first deer hunt and it would of came from N.H.
    and a beautifull buck at that...
    
                   Well she said she would have her hunting stuff ready
                   when get home tonight to go back out.
    
    
                                                     Good hunting
    
                                                Lee.