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Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

Title:The Hunting Notesfile
Notice:Registry #7, For Sale #15, Success #270
Moderator:SALEM::PAPPALARDO
Created:Wed Sep 02 1987
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1561
Total number of notes:17784

218.0. "gun fit and fitting" by SMURF::JUCH () Wed Sep 14 1988 13:30

    I recently went to Orvis in Manchester, Vermont for a gun fitting.
    The result of the process is to get you to shoot where you are looking
    and pointing with the shotgun.  (That's what it's all about, no,
    except in American Skeet/Trap, where you aim).
    
    The fitting is performed at the Shooting School.  I picked up Dave
    Slohm, the Orvis gun maven, at the store.  I brought a 20 gauge
    I shot regularly, along with the clothes I regularly wear gunning,
    ie, boots, shirts, vests, and shooting glasses.  I changed at the
    shooting school.  After we had a soda and talked for a bit, we went
    to the patterning board.
    
    The patterning board is a 6'x6' board that has the outline of a
    grouse hung by wire in front of it.  White lates paint and a roller
    is kept nearby.  Dave had me assume a ready position (legs slightly
    apart, left foot pointing towards the target and a bit in front
    of the right, gun butt under my armpit) and at his word "bird" I
    mounted the gun and shot at the grouse.  After I shot 5 or 6 rounds
    this way a definite pattern established itself.  All my shots were
    low and to the left, although, because of the excellent choke work
    done by Herb Stratemeyer, they did surround the target.  Dave  said
    they were "killing shots, but we can improve them."  
    
    Dave then measured my gun, and set up a try-gun, where all the
    adjustments like length of pull, various drops, and cast can all
    be adjusted.  He then handed me the gun, and I again shot 5 or 6
    rounds at the target board he had freshly whitewashed.  This time,
    however, the choke in the try-gun was at least modified, to give
    a more precise idea of where the gun was pointing.  The results
    suprised me.  I was now hitting the target exactly where I should
    be - the 6 patterns looked like one shot!  We checked the dimensions
    by shooting some clay birds.   The fitting worked...I was hitting
    more than I usually do.
    
    The fitting cost $50 and in my mind it is absolutely worth it. 
    They write down your proper dimensions and give them to you, and
    they also keep them on file in case you want them to adjust your
    gun.  The next step is to go to your favorite gunsmith (or Orvis
    or, if people are interested I can give some references) and have
    yor stock bent, lengthened, etc., so that it fits you.  It's especially
    easy to do on most pumps and automatics, because of the bolt that
    runs through the stock.  A stock adjustment may go from as lttle
    as $50 to several hundred (or more if you want a custom stock built)
    depending on what you have to have done.
    
    One has to have an open mind about this stuff.  Americans sometimes
    are used to a "one size fits all" (badly) story; custom stuff is
    too snobbish.  But the fitting can cure all sorts of problems with
    master eye, recoil sensitivity, etc.  It's worth checking out! 
    I know it will help me with the grouse this year (I need it.)
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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218.1curiousPLATA::BILLINGSLEASwing easy...Wed Sep 14 1988 15:029
    re:  < Note 218.0 by SMURF::JUCH >
    
    This sounds very interesting.
    
    Is it worth having an inexpensive gun customized or should I go buy a
    Browning?
    

    ps.  I can't afford a Browning. :-(
218.2Sounds neat but priceyBTO::RIVERS_DWed Sep 14 1988 15:1417
    Sounds like an interesting process.  I wasn't aware that Orvis
    offered this service.  And to think, I was just down there 2
    weeks ago.
    
    So it sounds like you are going to get the work done on your gun(?).
    Are you going to get the gun back for hunting this year?  I talked
    to a gunsmith about a month ago.  I needed to have some choke work
    done.  He said he could do it by May (yes, I do mean 1989).
    
    BTW, did you get a chance to cast an eye over the new and used guns
    on the rack in the main store?  Scary, the prices they were getting.
    Cheapest I saw was a used Citori for $800 (only gun under a  grand).
    I was surprised to see that a big majority of their guns were s/s.
    
    Good Grousin'
    
    Dave
218.3How about O/U's?BPOV02::J_AMBERSONThu Sep 15 1988 09:323
    Any idea what it costs to have tnem work on a decent O/U? (Superposed)
    
    Jeff
218.4how important is gun fit?VELVET::GATHThu Sep 15 1988 10:4022
    I can't reply to this note with out errors...... so I'll
    make it short
    
    Herb Stratmyre
    
    Bends stocks and will make necessarry modification in the Mass
    N.H. area.
    
    the other methods of getting proper fit is to do it your self.
    
    and have a gun smith determine where your master eye is
    with it relationship to the rib or sighting plane
    
    I respectfully dissagree with bill's comment that skeet shoots and
    trap shooters aim.
    
    It ain't so. I'm afraid you are mistaken however you are entiled
    to your own opinions and since I have enjoyed all of talks
    I respect your opinion but I still disaggree.
    
    sincerely
    Bear
218.5Where exactly is Stratamyre?AUGGIE::WFIELDThu Sep 15 1988 11:1412
    I recently got a new Beretta 682 Skeet gun (which I point not aim),
    and it doesnt fit quite as well as I would like. I have heard
    Stratamyre mentioned before, but have not heard from anyone
    that has actually had any work done by him. Where exactly is
    he located? Does anybody have a feel for how risky bending
    a stock is? When being fit is the try stock put on your gun?
    I am pretty serious about having this done, and would appreciate
    any info anyone could supply. Also if someone could shed some
    light on exactly what dimesions are important, and how they are
    taken I would be real interested to hear about that too.
    
    Wayne                                                   
218.6BPOV02::J_AMBERSONThu Sep 15 1988 11:161
    Herb Stratemeyer       603-456-7576
218.7Pls Call and talk to him.VELVET::GATHThu Sep 15 1988 12:320
218.8notes about fit - keep questions coming!SMURF::JUCHFri Sep 16 1988 17:380
218.9Phone numberAUGGIE::WFIELDMon Sep 19 1988 14:102
    The phone number in .6 is transposed. The correct number is;
    Herb Stratemeyer	(603)-465-7576.
218.10Season Update (and gun fit)MILRAT::JUCHTue Nov 08 1988 17:2119
    As a followup to my recent note, I have to say that I am enjoying
    shooting more since I had my stock bent and fit.  My percentage
    on grouse has gone way up (no, you don't want to know what it was
    - now it's over 25%).  In fact, I shot the first grouse that my
    pup, Jack, pointed, making it the first wild bird he pointed.
    
    I think one of the nicest things about it is that I have more
    confidence.  If there is a shot within range, I'm more willing to
    try it than before.  If I miss, so what?
    
    Season note - we saw many more grouse this year than last in New
    Brunswick.  For example, on one of our best days our bag was 6 grouse
    and 8 woodcock; last year the ration would have been 1-8.  The apple
    crop was enormous.  Lots of deer and BEAR using the orchards - Vibram
    soles don't give traction in bear poop/apple sauce.  The woodcock
    are down - this past wekend we saw our first NH flight birds (in
    White Mountain covers), and since deer season is open, it will be
    Mass and RI until the ice comes.  But I think generally the wood
    cock are down from last year.  Alas! 
218.11SSDEVO::FISHERRFri Jul 07 1989 20:0015
    How does one who is buying his first shotgun, and has never used
    one before, tell if it "fits"?  It's a little difficult to know if it
    feels right if one doesn't know how it is *supposed* to feel.  
    
    I'm in that position now.  I don't want to spend a lot of money on a
    fitting, like the originator of this note, because my first gun will
    probably be a low-end model.  I would, however, like it to fit
    reasonably well.  Is there a rule-of-thumb that relates body size to
    stock size, like there is for bicycles?  Is there a "rule" that says
    where my hand should be in relation to my cheek or something?
    
    I've read about "how it shoulders" or "how it comes up", but I don't
    know what that means.  Does it have something to do with how far
    forward the gun must be pushed to clear the armpit and get to the
    shoulder?
218.12Feel the FitEXPRES::FERRAROSat Jul 08 1989 02:0012
    How it shoulders, or how it comes up refers to:.....
    
    Moving your firearm from a safe carry position to the shoot
    position without having to make any adjustments to the hold
    once it reaches your shoulder.
    
    It's basically that simple.  When you pick up a shot gun or 
    rifle hold it like you would while hunting, then quickly 
    bring it to your shoulder in an aim position.  It should feel
    very comfortable without having to adjust the hold.
    
    Greg
218.13Weather dependantSALEM::AYOTTEMon Jul 10 1989 11:0513
      I thought that the quick fit method was based on the length of
    ones forearm.  Measured from the inside of the elbow with the arm
    bent at 90 degrees.  With the gun held in this position, the trigger
    finger should comfortably cover the trigger as one would do when
    firing.  This seems to work for me...... however, as soon as fall
    weather rolls around my gun fit goes to hell.  Especially since
    I like to layer the clothes.  That makes my gun fit change all day
    long.
    
     My dad does a lot of trap shooting.  He has two stocks for his
    favorite gun.  One is for his "winter league" shooting.
    
    Dave
218.14Fit = HitDNEAST::BAKER_CHUCKWed Jul 19 1989 11:2217
    
    
    PROPER fit also means that the shotgun, when shouldered, is pointed
    where you are looking.
    
    The elbow to finger trick only measures length of pull.  Drop and cast
    also make a difference.  
    
    The method of looking at a small spot then quickly shouldering the
    shotgun ( ALWAYS check that it's unloaded as soon as you pick it up ) 
    then, without moving the gun, look at the sight.  If it's right on the
    spot then the gun is at least close.
    
      I can fill in some more details if anyone wants them.
    
    Chuck