Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    You got it correct...possession for example in Ohio squirrel..
    bag limit=4, possession=8. that is what is on your person, in your
    car/truck AND what is in your house/freezer.
    
    the intent behind the law is to prevent folks from hunting XYZZY's
    tp the bag limit each day and stockpiling for the winter. The stories
    that you usually hear about are the ones where some slob hunter
    is arrested for killing protected species followed by the search
    warrent and the other case is a poacher. I have never heard of a
    game protector walking up to somebodies house and doig random search.
    
    dick

    
    re .1
    
    The story I heard about was not a randon search, but of a suspected
    poacher, they got him for having game in excess of the possession
    limit.  But it doesn't rule out the fact that they could search
    your freezer and bust you for having 7 mallards, or 9 squirrels.
    
    As you stated possession means "on your person, in your car/truck
    AND what is in your house/freezer".  If it means on your person,
    in your car/truck than I believe it's a pretty naive term, someone
    returning from the field having 2 blacks is clearly in violation
    of the bag limit in my opinion.  The same goes for the truck or
    the house, an illegal can easly skin 'em and put them in the freezer
    only to return to the field to bag another days bag limit.  
                                                                      
    If it's as you say, then this scenario could very easily happen;
    Oh, but geeez officer, the 2 mallards and 1 black under the boat
    seat are from yesterdays hunt...  So maybe it allows this loophole
    to exist?  ...except for opening day..I'm sure possession limit
    wouldn't apply.
    
    I guess I understand what you're saying about discouraging stockpiling,
    and potential wasted game.  It seems like a good restriction, but
    it's not very well defined, and not a lot of people understand it.
    
    Kevin

    I don't like it. It is not only not well understood it is also
    self imposed. 
    
    Of all the game laws I know of it is the most frequently broken
    by avid hunters.
    
    So I stop hunting because it un lawful only to find many of my best
    friends and compadries still hunting.......
    
    It is not enforceable only if self imposed. This is why I don't
    like it. 
    
    I don't like because I can find very few other people adhereing
    to it. 
    
    So if you indeed do follow it then you and I were the ones the law
    was made to stop not the 99% I talk to just snicker and laugh.
           
    I am talking about the dog trainers the members of DU, RGS and
    all these other organizations...I have yet to find an advid hunter,
    a person who may teach hunter safty and hunts 3 times a week and
    adhere's to possion limits as defined as in your freezer
    
    Now that I think of it does it really include the freezer.
    
    How can you determine phesants from a field trial, a hunting
    preserve, and stocked phesants???
    
    But even the seasonal bag limits are self imposed and many of the
    avid hunters again have a total diregard for seasonal limit shooting
    a season limit in the first week.
    
    I don't like self imposed regulations. I have taught huntersafty
    and find it absolutly necessary to obey all laws but I donot like
    the ones that they have absolutely no way of inforcing...
    
    Bear

    re.2..the key words are...suspected poacher, they may or may not
    have found what it was that they suspected him of poaching BUT they
    did find excess of the possesion limit of something.
    
    From last years hunting rules booklet...
    Ohio revised code 1531.01
    
    (H)"Possesion" means both actual and constructive possesion and
    any control of things referred to.
    
    Also we need to define some other terms being used here...
    
    BAG LIMIT....this is usually a daily bag limit
    POSSESION....the current topic...I am quite sure that it also includes
                 your freezer.
    SEASON LIMIT....amount alllowed to be taken generally defined as
                    number per season or lic year or some period etc.
    
    examples,  4 squirrels per day bag limit, possesion 8 after the
    1st day..
    
    deer ...one deer per year per hunter regardless of the method taken.
                                                                     
    If you have more ducks in your boat than the bag limit your
    over..simple. If you know of somebody that takes a daily limit
    and goes back out...turn the slob in for what he is..a poacher.
    
    I am not sure exactly why Mr. Bear quit hunting, and indeed if you
    did it's a shame but I ABSOLUTLY INSIST that anybody I hunt with
    obeys all laws and regulations. Mr. Bear since you feel as strongly
    as you do regarding regulations I feel that I would be quite
    comfortable with you as a hunting partner and would be pleased if
    came out here..see 199.
     
    I would suggest that you do what I do when a question arises, call
    your states game management division, I've never gotten a rough
    time from any of them
    
    The rules are fairly simple, they are there to manage the specie
    and the sport.
                                                                   
    Have a safe,enjoyable season
    
    dick

    What if there are two hunters in the household? Does
    the possession limit remain the same or does it get doubled?   
    What i'm trying to say is it per household or by per hunter    
    
    Tony
    
    

    Interesting question...easy answer if one obeys the rules...
    
    if the possesion limit is say 4 then clearly there should be no
    more than 8 in the freezer since each lic holder is allowed to
    possess 4!
    
    I have been told by a former hunting buddy that out west the
    tradition is (for deer) that tags are all filled regardless
    of who kills the deer. In fact he told me that he killed 2 and
    they tagged the second with somebody elses tag who didn't get
    a deer. What I do not know is if this is condoned by the states
    laws, ignored by the wardens or just local custom or what. I do
    know that he tends to twist the rules to his convience and assumed
    that if he shot 2 deer in PA that I would tag the second. That
    assumption ruined the hunt for me, in fact I packed up and left
    as I wouldn't be part or party to what I considered SLOB HUNTING.
    I have never hunted with that man since nor will I.
    But that is getting off the subject...again if you have a question
    I suggest you contact your state since they may be different than
    Ohio's.

    First let me say I did not quit hunting. ( I will have to go back
    and reread my first reply to determine what I said that was taken
    that way.)
    
    I belong to several local clubs. I also belong to DU,RGS and
    several springer spaniel clubs.
    
    I have taught hunter safty. I meet a lot of people who hunt.
    A great many of these people are avid hunters. They are good
    shots and they hunt frequently.
    
    They do not follow possesion limits. They do not follow season limits.
    
    It seems to me If I obey these rules that it is self imposed.
    
    #######################################################################
    
    I again want to absolutely sure this includes the freezer???
    If I hold 3 licenses and my wife 1 and my son 1 and we start
    traing our dogs two months before the season and purchase 50
    pheasants for the last month of training; 
    
    Now I hunt Mass. N.H. and Vermont. After the season is over
    I still haven't had enough hunting so I make some appointments at a
    local game farm to extend my hunting season . Here we can shoot
    as many birds as we want but the norm is 12 a day to be shot buy
    your party.
    
    Also somewhere along the line I decide to take in a few local
    field trials and pick up a couple dozen dead birds at each trial
    I could easily end up with 100 pheasants in the freezer...
               
    All birds were tagged at the trial and at the game farm but when
    you clean them they are removed and discarded.
    
    I find it difficult to beleive that they have much of a case...
    
    Also when I was hunting ducks at Lake Champlain I met several guys
    who have both a New York license and a Vermont licenses. They hunt
    for an hour in one State shoot a bag limit of Ducks and within 15
    min are in a blind in the other state shooting a second bag limit
    in the other state.
    
    These are avid hunters with purhaps a dozen blinds built in the
    area.
    
    I can not find any rules that they have broken but I do feel that
    in the spirit that the rules were made under that they have indeed
    over harvest.
    
    Bear.
    
    I stop hunting when my season limit or pssesion limit has been
    filled.
                                    
    

    	Bear,
    	  Good for you, I am glad to hear of someone following both
    	the letter and the spirit of the game laws.  I plan to do the
    	same.
    		Linda

    I can not think of a better way to put as was said in .7----
    the spirit and the letter of the law,
    
    now for your examples I suspect that the tagged birds are 
    excluded exempt but I'm not sure. as for having 3 licenses
    it would seem to me that the laws of the state you and your
    freezer are currently in would be the ones in effect. I am
    assuming that you have 2 other states non-res tags and 1 in 
    your home state.....again, call your states game dept and ask them
    and post the results here as I'm curious too. I will contact
    mine and put them here for info. As for the guys with multiple
    duck blinds it would probably be the same ie your home states laws
    as far as possesion goes.....BUT my opinion is that regardless
    of the results I feel that that kind of behavior is lousy, greedy
    and very much against my grain.
    
    BTW I'm happy that you still hunt and that you and Linda feel the
    way you do. We need ALL the good, ethical hunters that we can find
    to offset the bad press the anti's get from the occasional slob
    hunter.
    
    
    regards,
    
    dick
    

    I did call the game department to get some clarification.
    
    Posession does include the freezer and he did admit it was
    very unlikely that you would ever be caught. It does however give
    them some leverage when they have lots of evidance about a poacher
    but can't catch the indiviual red handed but can obtain a search
    warrent ( sp ).
    So this person is arrested for posession violation not the poaching.
    
    When you hunt a game farm you should package the tags with the meat
    and keep them togeather even in the freezer.
    
    The possesion limits stand regardless of what state you shot them
    in. If you bring them home they are counted in the possion limit.
    
    Now if there are four hunters in the house hold you can have up
    to 4 times the posesion limit.
    
    I said this sound similar to some one filling another persons
    deer tag..
    
    Now this officer goes to Marland for a week of goose hunting and
    he said he knew how I felt. He suggested that I try and change the
    law if I felt that strongly.. 
    
    I told him I would not asked how he approached this problem when
    hunting geese in Marland where again he would be allowed only 2
    days limit even though he  is hunting and paying for a week of
    guided hunts...
    
    I had to chuckle.
    
    In Vermont where in the Lake champlain area he said
    that it definately was against the federal regulations to shoot
    a limit of ducks in Vermont and N.Y. on the same day.
    
    That the Feds. would arrest and prosicute ( sp ) if observed/caught.
    
    He did say he did not know if it would hold up in court.
    It seems that there are some laws that the legilatures make that
    the Game mangement does not want but are required to enforce.
    
    He also agreeded it is really difficult to enforce laws that
    are not popular that it is a lot like the irs in that they
    require you to have some ideals.
    
    so much for the irs
    
    so much for season and possion limits.
    
    There are few who obey just like there are few who not shade there
    taxes.
    
    woe is me.
    
    Bear

    same here (Ohio) for small game and waterfoul however in my
    conversation with the ODNR I asked about the case where one
    is lucky enough to get a deer in Pa and 1 in Ohio. He said that
    the best way is to mark the packages with the date and tag number
    as they are put in the freezer, keep any ear tags, licenses, records
    or whatever that can prove that the animal was indeed killed in
    another state.....BUT....who in their right mind is going to let
    venison last that long anyway, I would guess that the meat from
    just 1 deer lasts me 2-3 months, it's just too darned tasty to let
    get freezer burned....
    
    
    regards,
    
    dick