Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

	Jim,
    	  I believe that this was probably the dogs temperament.
    	I had this problem with my last dog, also a springer.
    	It is a good idea to let everyone in the house reprimend
    	the dog, and also to give it commands, once you show them
    	how to demand the proper response.  If you can explain 
    	to them that certain types of play are not consistent with
    	the training you want to do, then there is no reason they
    	can't spend time with the dog.
    	  There is alot of discussion about this topic in DDIF::CANINE.
    	Pat Perry entered a note about how to teach a dog that it has
    	to let you take bones and things away.
    	  A different type of training may have helped, but I don't
    	think you would have had the problems you did if the dog's
    	temperament was better.  This problem is not uncommon in
    	springers from show stock.
    	  Good luck with the new pup.  It is important not to 
    	let it get away with biting anyone, for
    	any reason.  You can give it a little shake by the scruff
    	and say No when it does.  If it is a male dog, neutering
    	should reduce aggressiveness, but if the dog is well-bred 
    	you should not have a problem.
    	  Sorry about your last dog, it is very hard to have to put
    	a dog down.
    		Linda

    re: 1
    Linda,
    	  Have you ever heard of a springer that was from a breed called
    "Tramp"? A pro. trainer named Artie Heartland saw my dog and asked
    if it was "Tramp". He said that there was a springer breed that was 
    predominatly liver in color like mine and they called it Tramp. 
    He also said they were known for having bad tempers. Anyway the
    pup I'm getting comes from Pat Perry's dogs blood line. The mother
    and the pups aunt were so mild and good with the kids that I don't
    think I'll have problems in the temperment area.
                                        
    Thanks 
    Jim

    	Jim,
    	  No, I haven't heard of that line, but I am more familiar
    	with lines of show springers.  There is actually a name for
    	this trait called "springer rage".  Usually you will see it
    	when the dog is 1-2 years old.
    		Linda

    Gee, I had that problem with my last dog too.  Fortunately, things
    seem to be going much better with my year old Lab.  I think it is
    important to start as young puppies making it clear to them that
    it's OK for you or the kids to take bones away, or pull on their
    ears for that matter.  My daughter is only 3 and is much smaller
    than the Lab.  We had to watch the two of them pretty closely 
    at first, because the slightest nudge from the lab would send the
    kid flying across the room.  Now they are the best of buddies and
    the Lab is much more gentle with the 3 year old than she is with
    me.  The pup lets her pull her ears or take bones away from her.
    The only thing I avoid is letting them play tug-o-war.  It's
    kinda cute watching my 3 years old tell the pup to SIT and Stay
    and Come.  The dog minds her tool
    
    Mark,
    

    re:0
    
    	I had a dog that did things out of spite but did not bite anyone.
    An example is the first night my girlfriend (which is now my wife)
    spent in the house. The dog jumped up on her bed (I had twin beds)
    and took a dump right in back of her head. Had she not lifted her
    head when she rolled over to see what the dog was doing, she would
    have....well, you get the picture I'm sure. 
    
    	In time she grew out of it even though she was my dog exclusively 
    for quite awhile. Biting is another matter all together though. I've 
    had dogs all my life and a few that have bitten me, including ones that
    use to growl and bite if you take a bone/food away. Literally biting
    the hand that feeds you tends to agitate me quite a bit. I have
    only been bitten by a dog in this manner once per dog, maximum.
    The reason I think it hasn't happened twice is the fear the dog
    has that it will not live to see the following day if it does that
    again. I've also had a dog bite one of my kids and break the skin
    trying to steal food from my daughter. Again, I am fairly confident 
    that this will not happen again as the dog knows that biting the 
    baby for any reason is not worth a drop kick across the living room.
    
	RAYJ

    Jim,
    
    I think this is probably a trait of the Springer (no dog expert).
    In my hunting times I've seen it on different trips with different
    buddy's dogs but they were all springers. My personal choice is
    a Labrador. I now have 2, a black that is 5 yrs and his son who
    is a yellow ( the only yellow out of the litter when Shadow was
    bred with a yellow bitch). I have had no problem with correcting
    or scolding either dog nor has any member of the family including
    my son. I have nothing against Springers this is just my preference.
    
    Good luck with the new pup.
    
    Harvey