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Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

Title:The Hunting Notesfile
Notice:Registry #7, For Sale #15, Success #270
Moderator:SALEM::PAPPALARDO
Created:Wed Sep 02 1987
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1561
Total number of notes:17784

64.0. "Cast Bullets for Big Game?" by ELMO::HOLLEN () Fri Oct 23 1987 14:36

    I put a note in the Firearms notefile (really a reply) about "Cast
    Bullets for Big Game". It was note number 47.20. 
    
    What I'd like to know is if any of you out there have ever taken
    a deer, bear, etc. with cast bullets? If so, how did they perform
    on the game hunted? 
    
    I just worked up a good combination (for you bullet casters out
    there) of a Lyman 250 gr gas check bullet. I believe that the mould
    number is 429244. It's proven to be very accurate in a Winchester
    44mag M94 carbine. I use 21 gr of 2400 behind this bullet with a
    standard CCI large pistol primer. I'm going to use it during rifle
    season. This load is also a good one in my Ruger SBH. I would suggest
    starting 10% lower though if you'd like to duplicate it in you firearm
                                                         
    Any comments/experiences will be greatly appreciated!
    
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64.1A cast bullet fanREDHWK::FULTONA man has to know his limitations!Wed Mar 25 1992 10:2243
    I have yet to take a Big Game animal (deer, boar, bear, moose, or elk)
    with a my 44 magnum cast bullets but have had the opportunity to use it
    on some domestic big game.
    
    In the early 1980's I was visiting a butcher friend in Pennsylvania on
    a day that rapidly became quite exciting.  This particular pig didn't
    take kindly to having its lights put out and got quite p___ed off when
    the attempt to do just that failed.  I don't know if you have ever seen
    what a 900+ pound, highly upset pig can do to anything in its path,
    but this fellow proceeded to dismantle some of the butchery.  In the
    process it knocked down part of the stall that a ready-for-butchering
    steer was residing in.  This in turn got the steer upset and he too
    started to see how much he could tear down, drastically increasing the
    level of excitement.  My friends 30-30 succeeded only in getting the
    steer even more upset and when the cry went out to shoot them anywhere,
    a 320 grain JDJ sent into the shoulder of the pig sent it to the
    ground.  About a half hour later we caught up with the wounded steer
    and another 320 grain JDJ, again through the shoulder, sent him to the
    ground to stay.   The 320 grain .44 JDJ had completely penetrated both
    animals.  Neither bullet penetrated the heart, but sent pieces of bone
    into the heart and lungs, and busted bones in both shoulders.  Neither
    animal took a single step after being hit with the 320 grain .44 magnum
    load. 
    
    At the time, I was mixing about two pounds of linotype with each 20
    pounds of wheel-weights, and then tempering them.  This resulted in a
    very hard cast bullet.  I sincerely believe this bullet will take down
    any North America game animal, but think that a cast bullet made up
    with a hard base and somewhat softer nose would be much better for an
    all-round bullet North American Big Game.  Ross Seyfried makes such a
    bullet, and has had good luck with it.  I'm still trying to find out
    the process he goes through to make them.
    
    As far as handguns go, I much prefer cast bullets over jacketed for
    use in revolver cartridges.  Cast bullet performance is much more
    consistent over a much wider range of velocities than jacketed bullets
    are in handguns.  In addition, cast bullets exit at higher velocities
    than jacketed bullets at the same pressure levels.
    
    In a revolver, cast bullets are my only choice for hunting.
    
    Roy...
    
64.2ZEKE::HOLLENWed Mar 25 1992 12:4164
    
    
      I too am a fan of cast bullets...
    
      I haven't cast up anything (for the 44mag) like the 320 grain JDJ,
    but the 250 gr. Lyman gas checked bullet has proven to be a good all
    round bullet. I did in fact use it in a 44mag rifle that I USED to 
    have. It was very accurate out of that rifle, and produced absolutely
    no leading with the alloy that I was using (1/2 linotype + 1/2 wheel
    weights. In 1988 I *just* missed a deer with this rifle and the cast
    bullet loading. To make a long story short, the deer (when I first
    spotted it) was behind a tree about 85 yards away, and all I could
    see was it's hindquarters. It finally moved after about 5 minutes,
    and went directly behind a group of 3 trees and stopped. To the left
    of these trees was a hill where if he took 2 or 3 steps, he'd be behind
    the hill and long gone. I tried to weave a shot into his chest between
    trees #1 and #2 but I hit one of the trees with a glancing blow. Cie La
    Vie ! Adios deer! So, I didn't get to see what a cast bullet would do
    to a deer... Since then I did take a nice little spike buck with a
    muzzleloader using a 265 grain lead roundball. It worked perfect!
    It punched a big hole going in, and a bit bigger hole going out. The
    deer didn't drop at the shot or anything, he just looked around as if
    to casually see where the noise came from. He walked about 10 steps
    down the hill and keeled over dead. Nice blood trail too!
    
      ... This is, I feel, one of the biggest advantages of using cast
    bullets. Blood trails. Invaribly when a cast bullet is used (either
    in a rifle, handgun or muzzleloader) they are going to be large in
    caliber. I have come around in recent years to acknowledge that a 
    large caliber round is better in this regard than any of the sub-
    30-caliber rounds. The deer that I shot in 1981 with a 243 showed
    no blood whatsoever coming out of the entrance and exit wounds (this
    deer dropped immediately from a spine hit, than God :-) ... It's
    that blood trail that'll, in many instances, be the deciding factor
    in whether or not you recover that deer, so why not use something
    that'll be much more likely to produce that good blood trail? Old
    Elmer Keith knew what he was talking about afterall!!! :-)
    
      Roy, if you want to cast up those "dual-alloy" bullets you're
    probably going to have to get in touch with NEI to see if they have
    the moulds. The process from what I understand, involves casting up
    the bullet bases first in a hard alloy. Then the "bases" are put into
    another mould, and the soft alloy in poured in on top to complete
    the bullet nose. The process to cast these up sounds pretty "labor-
    intensive", so they're probably a "hunting only" bullet, sorta like
    the "nosler partitions of the cast bullet world" :-) ...
    
      You also mentioned heat treating. How did you do it? Some folks
    that I know just drop their bullets from the mould into cold water.
    Of course, wheel weights must be used here because it's the arsenic
    in the wheel weights that allows the hardening when heat treated...
    Also, in the NRA publication "Cast Bullets" by Col. E.H. Harrison,
    he states that heat treating will "undo" itself over time, and suggests
    that bullets that are heat treated be used within the year that they
    are cast... I figure if Linotype is still fairly available, then heat
    treating takes a back seat... But, if/when linotype becomes
    unavailable, it'll be either the commercially made bullet alloys like
    Lawrence Magnum Alloy (big $$$), or heat treating...
    
      I don't think you have to go to the trouble of casting those dual
    hardness bullets... Those 320 gr. JDJ's seem to be fine medicine...
    
    
    Joe
64.3My heat treating methodREDHWK::FULTONA man has to know his limitations!Wed Mar 25 1992 15:4921
    re: .2
    
    I was heat treating at the time trying to save on the amount of
    linotype needed.  I tried the drop it in water routine with little to
    no success.  Timing must be really critical by this method.
    
    The way I do it is to place a couple in the oven, and slowly heat it up
    until the bullets just start to deform.  Then back it off a few degrees
    (using a thermometer to do this).  Then I would place the rest of the
    bullets in the oven for an hour upon which time I would quickly quench
    them in a bucket of water that had towels at the bottom to soften their
    fall.  This seemed to work quite well and sure saved a lot of linotype
    or 50/50 solder.  Was quite an envolved job though and can be disaster
    if the oven thermostat is not reliably consistent.
    
    Don't know how long the hardness will last when heat treated since they
    seem to fly away on me within a couple months, regardless of how many I
    cast at a time.
    
    Roy...