Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    There is a good note about steel shot in ALIEN::FIREARMS
    
    Not sure what # the note is, do a dir/title="steel shot"
    
    Dave

    You might want to check out the August and September issues of Field
    and Stream.  It's an interesting 2 part series on Steel Shot.
    
    mark,
    

    Do  we have any comments/opinion's from the people who used steel
    shot last year? 
    There will be a lot more of us using it this year, so it would
    be helpfull to know what me might run into with it.
      
    
         Bill

    I noticed no real difference in effectiveness with steel.  I used
    a size larger shot then I would if using lead.  I think that if
    you limit your shots to those where you're confident you can hit the
    bird then you shouldn't have a problem.  If you start blasting away
    at 60 yds or more then your going to wound alot of birds, regardless
    of whether or not your using steel or lead.  The birds I killed
    with steel were just as dead as the ones I killed with lead.
    Jeff

    I used steel last year.  I found I had to lead the birds more and
    had to let them come in closer before shooting.  I used #4 instead
    of the normal #6 that I used to use.  I used steel shot in a new
    Remengton 1100 And did not notice any problems with it.  I was using
    2 3/4 inch mags.
    
    Pat

    One concern I have always had is eating game bagged with steel shot.
    While lead shot will still break your dental work, it seems that
    steel shot would be horrible in this regard.  Did you do anything
    in particular to the birds that you harvested with steel shot that
    you would not have done had you taken them with lead?  Am I worrying
    about nothing?
    
    						Dave()

    RE:.6  DENTAL WORK
    
    I just bit a little lighter when I'm eating those birds.

    Ditto.

This was written sometime in late October, 1987, by myself after a weekend
of hunting with steel shot...it's kind of like a journal of hunting that
I sometimes write into.

>>>
Used steel shot for the first time this weekend, hunted in game management
areas that require its use solely.  Going into this weekend I had a good
attitude towards using steel, at least from a technical/literature standpoint.
Have always felt it is the right thing to do, you know switch to steel today,
tomorrow 2 million more birds in the flyways across the country...pretty
convincing.

The first shot dropped a hen mallard at about 35 yards, folded her on impact,
so I thought.  She popped back to life when my yellow lab got about 15 yds. 
from her, my dog got a very important lesson....she learned that sometimes she
has to dig the critters off the lake bottom, which she did quite well, to a 
very excited trainer...seems I couldn't drop anything after that...seemed to
be on the birds, feathers flying etc....but just couldn't drop them.  The guys
next to me hit a greenhead hard, it veered toward my decoys, I quickly put
3 shots into it, realizing this bird had one thing in his head (none of my 
pellets of course)...to get in the middle of the bay, and fast, I slowed him a 
bit.  The dog put a good show on for me and the other hunters as she dove for 
this one in about 3' of water, she was successful again.

Things started getting weird when I cleaned these birds, damn the breasts were
full of holes, pellet holes, some 1 - 1.5 inches in diameter.  These birds got
pelted with this shot, the steel shot went straight through their bodies.  
The concentration was in the chest and abdominal cavity, the weird thing is 
they didn't die.  The hen died shortly after being brought into the boat, but
the drake breathed for about 1/2 hour, after smashing his skull and ringing
his neck.  This happened Sat. afternoon, Sunday morning I was asked to hunt
with my brother who had a permit for a refuge area.  I got my limit 2 
greenheads, 1 black, and 1 teal.  Missed a lot of birds, again I was sure I 
was on the birds.  Same situation with the meat, these ducks all died hard.
The teal was the only bird that folded dead, she had about 15 #3 pellets, 3" 
mag. steel in her, the breasts were not that bad off.  The other birds were
a mess, the black had a hole 1/2" on one side, and an elongated exit hole
that was quite big on the other side.  This bird flew about 100 yds. after 
being shot, landed in the water, swam around and died.  The mallards were
more of the same, large holes in the breasts.  What really bothers me as
a sportsman is that out of 6 birds shot with steel, only 1 was a clean
kill.  And I know I pelted at least 7 other birds that will bleed to death.
Don't think I've ever done more damage to a population of birds in one 
weekend as I did this past.  It scares me because I am, with lead, maybe a 
little better than average shot, and with steel probably average.  I know this 
is a very limited sample, and my first time using the stuff, but I am 
discouraged.

>>>

By the note I can see and remember that I was upset with the performance of
steel shot.  I primarily used 12 ga., 3", #3's.  I used the 2 shot size rule,
I normally use 5's for ducks.  If I remember most shots were about 30 yds,
some closer.  The teal was hammered at about 20 yds, hit her mostly in the 
head/neck area.  

I think I'm like a lot of other hunters, we shoot for the bird.  Not 
concentrating on the head.  I am convinced, that with steel, head shots are a 
must.  The steel just doesn't slow down enough (no deformation of pellet) to 
transfer the energy into the bird.  This is why I am seeing large exit holes, 
and finding very few pellets.  The birds bleed profusely for similar reasons, 
the steel shot cuts the feathers, rather than pulling them into the wound, 
making a much cleaner cut.  My opinion is there will be lots, thousands, of 
birds crippled across the nation, that will later bleed to death.  The key to 
stopping this is learing how to shoot with steel.  I am convinced I have to do 
more skeet shooting (with steel) to learn to concentrate on a small object.  I 
have to learn to "head shoot".

Kevin

    Duck season is quickly approaching us here in Maine.  And if we
    are allowed to shoot any (ducks) we'll have to use steel shot. 
    
    The stores are full of factory ammo at better than $10 a box, but
    I want to load my own.  I can get steel shot for roughly $.50/lb
    and the special wads for $10/bag of 150, but I can't buy a data
    book to load them up.  I hate to assume that I can substitute ounce-
    for-ounce and grain-for-grain.
    
    Does anyone out there have any reliable loading data for steel shot?
    I'm mostly interested in 2 3/4" 12 guage, but any data would be greatly
    appreciated.
    
    Thanks

    
    ------------------------DANGER---------------------------------------
    
    Your best input will be manuals. Stop buy the larger gun shops
    and ask what they have printed on the subject.....(L.L.Beans
    or the Kitery trading Post)
    
    "DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING WITH STEEL SHOT"
    
    I have read some manuals on the subject that have some receipies
    in them and one that comes to mind is by Don Zutzs and I think
    it is titled the modern waterfowler and his guns. Or something
    close to this.....
    
    At any rate, I do know that it does take a different powder
    than you have now... It is a slower burning powder.
    
    It takes special wadds  and a knife that cuts the wadds.
    
    You will have to order special parts for your loader because the
    there is a different density in steel
    
    The tube that the powder/shot drops into the shell may need
    to be changed...
    
    and what ever else the book says to do...
                    
    There are some companies that are developing unique products
    for this market get there address and write to them...
    
    Please don't go about using here say advice.
                                                
    Hand loading of steel shot can be a longer job than you anticipate.
    Because the shot size needed to perform is larger it gets difficult
    to load the shot. Have you ever had your loader hang up while
    it was trying to cut a lead shot in two? Well this problem increases
    as the size of the shot increases.Because you will be using
    a size 2 or maybe even #1 it will happen frequently.
    
    The differece being you can't force the larger size lead pellets
    and you don't have a chinaman's chance to server a steel shot in two..
    
    What is the solution? I think you will be dipping the shot and pouring
    it into the shells with a funnel... One way is to figure out many
    pellets make a load and then take a old primer tray and cover the
    holes you don't want.
    
    By this I mean the plastic tray that most primers come in and we
    have been throwing away.
    
    Well lets say ( and I have no Idea ) that 82 size #1 pellets
    make up 1 1/8 oz load. In this example we would take epoxy and cover
    18 holes and after this dryed we could use this too dip into the
    shot , shake and there should be a pellet in each remaining slot
    leaving us with 82 #1 size steel shot.
    
    This would then be poured into a shell that was prepaired with the
    rest of the recipie. using a funnel we could add this shot and then
    resume loading by completeing the start crimp and final crimp station.
    
    None of the figures that I have used in this example are acurate.
    I just grabed them out of the air to convey an idea.. so please
    don't say I said there are 82 #1 size steel shot in an 1 1/8.
    
    There is alot to loading steel shot. most people advise that you
    don't...
    
    If you have a complete understanding  of loading and if you enjoy
    the sport of duck hunting with your own loads or if you purhaps
    want to make better loads than is available, are purhaps good
    reasons to reload steel shot...
    
    Because they are too expensive is ( in my opinion ) not a good
    reason at all... 10.00 a box is the cheapest way out..
    
    Get togeather with some friends and order a case. Buy them wholesale.
    
    When N.H. goes steel I may try my hand at this..Until then all my
    advice is not from practicle experience but book knowledge.
    
    Bear.
    
    

    
    re .10
    
    I'm in the same boat you are...still debating whether or not to
    reload.  From my standpoint reloading doesn't seem to be a very
    good solution.  I can buy Federal 3" mags. for ~$90.00/case (10
    boxes).  I can not find any local outlet that sells steel shot
    components.  They all state "High Liability", "not enough data".
    I can order the stuff through Cabela's, enough wads and shot for
    300 shells (300 wads and 20 lbs. of shot), they want 48.95 + shipping
    for this...quite a bit higher than your prices.  Include powder
    and primers (assume hulls can be depreciated over a couple reloads)
    it puts it quite near $90.00; at these prices how can I justify
    reloading...I can't.
    
    Are your prices retail or wholesale?
    
    If you're buying retail could you give me the address of the outlet
    you are using, maybe I can get them to send me stuff through the
    mail...
    
    Apparently you get a reloading manual with the kit from Cabela's...
    
    Actually I am quite surprised, steel shot factory loads are much
    cheaper than similar lead factory loads...but for the past few years
    I have been reloading 1 1/2 oz. (2 3/4") high quality magnums for
    about $5.00/box...looks like I'll have to get 50% more accurate
    to make up the 50% investment.  :^)
    
    Kevin still_in_search_of_affordable_steel_reloading_components

    The prices I got were from Fluery's in Winthrop, ME.  I couldn't
    remember them exactly from last night, so I just gave them a call.
    
    		Steel shot           19.95/10 lb bag
    		Cut plactic wads     8.95/150 ct bag
    		Felt spacer wads     6.95/250 ct bag
    		Over/Under wads      6.95/1000 ct bag
    
    	Perfered casing:  Federal gold medal
    	Data sheet for approx. 6 different loads comes with wads.
    
    I wasn't told about the data sheet last night, which is typical
    of Fleury's.  So, with these prices in mind, I can reload for about
    half the price of new.  Not necessarily a great savings considering
    the work, but I look at the time spent as part of the fun of the
    sport.
    
    P.S.  If you go to Fleury's, make sure you get someone who looks
    like they know what they are talking about.