Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Good topic, Rich.  Since I'm into Labs I'll give my two cents worth
    on what I would look for if I were purchasing a hunting dog.  I'll
    leave the other breeds to those who have a better idea of what to
    look for.
    
    Wish List for a Lab
    *******************
    
    Pedigree must contain a high percentage of _field_ champions.  Bench
    dogs look nice, but I would not put nearly as much weight on a bench
    champion as I would a field dog. The pedigree is the potential "blueprint"
    of your pup.  This is what determines what his potential as a hunter
    _might_ be.  It is no guarentee, but a good pedigree increases your
    odds of getting a good dog.  A mediocre pedigree increases your
    odds of getting a mediocre dog. etc.
    
    Dogs in the pedigree must be OFA certified.  OFA is the Orthopedic
    Foundation of America (i think).  They certify dogs as being free
    from hip displaysia.  The great majority of dogs in the pedigree
    should be rated "fair" or better.
                     
    Dogs should be certified as being free of any eye disorders.
    
    I would want to meet both the bitch and sire if possible, especially
    if the pups are from lines you are not familiar with.  If possible
    I would want to watch them work in the field and water.         
    
    The kennel they are from should be reputable.  Normally if the above
    criteria are met it will be.  Ask for references.  Inspect the kennel
    if possible.
                
    Breeder should guarentee the pup as free from any physical or genetic
    disorders.  Terms of the guarentee should be in writing.  (If a
    problem arises, do you get a new pup or your money back? etc.)
    
    I would try and match the pup to my personality.  If you are an
    easy going and soft spoken person you should try and get a pup from
    a bitch and sire who are mild mannered.  A dog like this won't need
    as much preasure (or be able to handle as much) as a bolder dog.
    On the other side, If you have experience with training dogs I would
    get a dog from bolder lines.  This dog can take more preasure, but
    will also be more abt to test you.  You have to evaluate your
    personality as well as the dog.
    
    I would tailor the dog to the type of hunting a prefer.  A big
    slower moving dog will be a better duck and goose dog then a small
    dog.  He will be better able to handle the cold and also to handle
    cripples.  If you hunt mainly upland, I'd go for a smaller faster
    dog that can cover a field more efficiently.                                                     
    
    Im sure I have forgotton a lot of things, so other people out there
    add your comments.
    
    Jeff

    re .1	Thanks for the info. I received a copy of the pedigree
    for a pup I am interested. Well its all greek to me. There are a
    bunch of letters next to most of the dogs names. Mabee someone 
    can fill me in on what these mean??? Anyway here goes it.
    
    NAFC-FC, OFA LR- 10091, NFC-AFC, FC-AFC, NFC, FC, FC-AFC,
    FC-AFC-CFC-CAFC, ect.... 
    
    I bet FC stands for Feild Champ.
    
    Thanks in advance
    Rich

    Here goes, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    
    NAFC-FC          National Amateur Field champion-Fied Champion
    
    OfA ,            Orthopedic Foundation of America (Certify hips)
    
    NFC-AFC          National Field CHampion- Amateur Field Champion
    
    FC-AFC           Field Champion- Amateur Field Champion
    
    CFC              Canadien Field Champion
    
    CAFC             Canadien Amateur Field Champion
    
    CH               Bench CHampion  (nothing to do with field work)
    
    MHR              Master Hunting Retriever
        
    WR               Working Retriever
    
    WD               Working Dog                                    
    
    The most important members of the pedigree are the bitch and sire,
    with subsequent generations being less important.  As you go down
    through the pedigree the amount each dog "contributes" to the pups
    is reduced.  ie: I'd rather have a pup from a bitch and sire that
    were NAFC's and nothing else, then one who had four great grandparents
    that were NAFC"S, but nothing on the parents.  Does this make sense???
    Good luck
    Jeff
                                
    WDX              Working Dog Excellent

    thanks for all the info, If I were smart I might have looked at
    the back of the pedigee and would have seen what all that stuff
    ment. In other words I discovered it was on the back. No need 
    to correct you either. Id like to ask your opinion of the family
    tree if you dont mind. So here it is...
    
    Dams side
    
    Dam -
    Dams farther 2x nafc-fc
    Dams mother  -
    Dams grandfather fc-afc-cfc-cafc	  
    Dams grandfather fc-afc-cfc-cafc
    Dams grandmother -
    dams grandmother -
    Dams greatgrandparents - you name it they got it
    
    Sire - nafc-fc
    Sire's farther nfc-afc
    Sire's mother -
    Sire's grandfarther fc-afc
    Sire's grandfarther nfc
    Sire's grandmother fc
    Sire's grandmother -
    Great grandparents You name it they got it.
    
    I noticed that most of the mothers do not have much to brag about.
    Is this because they are used for breeding more than field trials???
    
    Thanks
    Rich
    
    						

    12.4 They are known in the business as brood bitches.
    
    Yes if you campain a female chances are you wouldn't want to breed
    her until after the titles are accomplished and often then she
    is getting along in years and if you decide to breed her
    you will not really get very many litters and some times
    none. Sometimes due the great physical training some females
    lose the capacity to reproduce.
    
    Its not easy to obtain one of these titles and purhaps it
    would be the same as if we (Humans) waited until we were
    say 40 years old before we decided to raise children.
    
    Bear

    Rich,
      It sounds like a real good breeding.  What kennel are they out
    of?  Who ARe the bitch, sire and grandparents.  Are there any names
    such as "Trumarc, Trieven, Candlewood, Superchief, in the breeding?
    Just curious as it sounds like it would be a well known line.  
    Jeff

    Jeff,
    	I forget the name of the kennal (Its not on the pedigee), but
    I"ll look it up tonight. In the breeding are the Trumarc, and 
    Superchief name. Bitch's name is Rock Maple Macks Melissa, Sire
    is Trumarc's Zip code. grand parents are San Joanquin Honcho, Seymours
    Windjammer Mist, Lawhorns cadillac mack, Hiwood Pipers Midnight
    Lady. The Breeder was talkin up a storm but you know how salesmen
    can be, so I was a bit unsure.  I think I'll be giving him a call
    tonight. :-)
    
    Thanks for all the Help!!!
    Rich

    Rich,
      Trumarc's Zipcode is a great dog, as was Superchief.  From the
    information you've told me it sounds like an excellent breeding.
    If you think of it, post the breeders name.
                       
    Jeff
    

    Jeff,
    The breeder is Beaver Brook Kennels, The fellows name is Leigh 
    Coolidge. 
    
    Rich

    Jeff,
    	Thanks for the information you gave, I put a deposit on the
    dog. She will be ready on Oct 3, cant wait! BTW He is keeping
    the pick of the females. Well if all goes well between now and
    Oct 3 I'll be the proud owner of a Lab pup.
    
    Thanks
    Rich
    

    Rich,
      Sounds like you got yourself quite a pup.  Good luck with her.
    Jeff