Conference vicki::boats

    	Being that I'm in that "someday" catagory myself, I'd also be
    interested in this. In my case, I'll be getting a trailerable boat.
    Although it's more of a hassle to use, it's the only option initially
    available to me.
    
    	This will eliminate the storage, slip, putting in/out, and some of 
    the (bottom) maint., as this will be primarily salt-water use. I'll likely 
    put it in at the Salisbury reservation and get a year long pass, which was
    $7.50 last year I believe. This allows unlimited ramp usage for no
    additional cost.
    
    	It also allows me to gas the boat up at a station rather than being
    tied to higher marina fuel costs. Security/vandalism are other things
    that are less likely to be issues by trailering, depending of course
    on where you live.
    
    	BTW - If you get a slip, I wouldn't expect that you'd *have* to get
    a dingy. Course the difference in cost between a slip and a mooring will
    probably pay for the dingy in the first year.
    
    	Ray

George,

	One thing missing from the list if this boat will be trailered
is an appropiate tow vehicle. A 25ft will likely require a *FULL* size
truck.

	Note 452 talks about slip costs....

Rick

Rick.

	I left out the tow vehicle because I would not buy a new vehicle to tow 
the boat.  I might rent one 2X a year to get the boat to and from my backyard
or, if that is not feasible, store it at the marina.  The trailer I would
consider part of the intial boat cost, and loan I hope. If it isn't rolled into
the loan then yep, that's another big cost.  The last reply to note 452 was
written in 1989

George

    If you're planning on a slip, and not getting a tow vehicle, then I
    would skip the trailer. A coworker has a 28' loa that he has brought
    home in the fall and back to the marina in the spring. He hires a
    a hauler from the marina with one of those fancy wiz-bang hydraulic
    lift trailers. Cost is about $300 for the season I think. Cheaper than
    buying a trailer that requires registration & maintenance, but won't
    get used much. 
    
    ~jeff

    
    	Currently I have a 1994, 27' boat docked in Amesbury Ma.. I will
    	try and list some of my yearly costs.  Your initial cost you
    	can get from any boating catalog.
    
    Yearly costs       	   Approx $	
    
    registration (NH)        180
    
    insurance		    1100      (usually around 500 depending on
    				       coverage and usage)
    mooring or slip	    1593      $59 Per/foot
    
    maintenance		     200      (for oil changes during season and
    				      expendables wax/soap/teak oil etc.)
    
    fuel		    1300      (for approx 300+ hours use) V8's burn
    				      9 gal/hr at cruise and 23 gal/hr full
    				      throttle.
    
    storage \
    winterizing		     545      This removal from water/winterizing/
    				      oils changed/shrink wrap
    
    de-storage		     495      un-shrink wrap/motor tune-up/bottom
    				      paint/ all systems tested.		
    
    
    Some of the other costs that you will need to consider
    
    New batteries every 2 to 3 years  ($180)
    Prop repairs		      (150)
    New ropes every year	      ( 60)
    New flares after expiration date  ( 30)
    
    
    Some of the Initial equipment you may want to consider
    
    Extra prop
    vhf radio
    cell telephone
    GPS
    Radar
    Compass
    Extra anchor
    EPIRB
    Life Raft
    Spotlite
    PFD Safety Lites w/Dated Battery
    Storm / Sea Anchor
    First Aid Kit
    Tool Kit/Propeller wrench
    Spares Kit (fuses,filters,plugs,belts,wire,tape)
    Anchor Retrival Bouy 
    Wash Down Hose w/Nozzle
    Boat Hook
    Oil Changing Pump
    Mop/Brusht Set
    Complete Set Charts
    Shore power cord
    Ring Bouy w/Bracket (throw device needed)
    
    
    
    Good luck and I hope these costs did not scare you away.
    
    	George  ( JOY III )
    
    

 George that was great!

 I'm only a fresh water person and look at it this way. Take all the money 
 you make in the summer months and multiply it by 2 and thats perfect. I spend
 all winter saving up for the summer.

 Its good you understand these costs up front. That's why alot of people now
 adays use their boats as floating campers and hardly stray from the dock. My
 boat uses apprx 20 gals an hour throttled up as well. But, I can;t sleep on
 mine, so there's lodging costs too...[Actaully I almost had too,,, the wife
 said if I bought another one it better be big enough to sleep on... I wonder
 what she meant?... the new one will be in next month]

 I have a rule that has worked in our family for 20 years of power boat
 ownership.

 Make sure you put enough down on the boat to pay it off in 5 years (6 max)
 and that those payments are in an amount that is not missed. If you follow
 this guide you will always be in the right boat for your income and be able
 to ampily enjoy it. 

 - Happy boating!
 
 - Sully

    re .4   Watch out on distance for hauling. You pay by the hour for
    trailering including the time it takes them to get back to the office. 
    
    I pay $400 each way to  trailer my 26' about 45 miles (Marblehead Ma -
    Nashua area). Total is $500 including rigging, but I'm a rag picker
    and need the stick installed.
    
    You also have to add the price of jack stands. Currently they go for
    $75 each new, plus some heavy timber for the keel. Sometimes a trailer
    is the cheaper way to go even with registration and maintence.
    
    john

    I have a 25' powerboat that I keep in Newbury, MA.  Here are some of my
    costs.
    
    1. Fuel $25-35 every time I go out. (my v6 engine helps save fuel)
    2. Mooring $500 per season (a slip is more convenient but also costs
    $1200-$1500 per season
    3. Oil Changes, etc.. $200
    4. Winterizing and Storage ($1000)
    5. Insurance $330/yr
    
    Naturally all of the accessories are expensive as well.  If you can
    get hold of a BOAT US catalog, it will list about every access. that
    there is as well as the price.
    
    Keep in mind that some of these cost can be lowered.  For instance if I
    winterize and store the boat myself I can save a bundle (which I will
    definetly do next winter), also if I perform the oil changes myself I
    can also save some money.  Depending on the size of the boat you go
    for, you can also save money on gas.  My boat is small enough that I
    can pull it out of the water very easy, then I can fill it up at the
    gas station for .30 cents per gallon less.
    
    Have fun
    
    

George,

I saw one noter indicate a "cell phone" was a good thing to have on board. I 
agree ONLY if you have a VHF Marine Radio as your primary source of getting 
help!!!!

The cell phone is OK for calling someone to chit=chat, but there is NO WAY 
the Coast Guard can find you based on a cell phone call unless you know 
EXACTLY where you are!! They do have Radio Direction Finder equipment that 
can pinpoint your position from a VHF radio. The best thay can do is find 
what cell you are in in the phone company network, and then only with a lot 
of hassel with the phone company!!

Good Luck,
Don

    
    I have a VHF radio on board and a Cell Phone.  I got the bag cell
    phone with the built-in battery just in-case my electrical system
    died or my batteries went dead.  I think that if you travel off
    shore you should have at least two methods of calling for help and
    at least one of those methods should not be connected to the
    standard electrical system.  The Cell phone met this for a very
    cheap investment.  Also, the phone is handy to call the wife and
    let her know that she should take something out of the freezer because
    I had a bad day fishing.
    
    
    	George (JOY III)
    

    You should also know the phone number of the coast guard.  Calling 911
    emergency number will usually get you a ploice station somewhere on
    shore who will probably have no idea what a lat or long is.
    
    Dennis

    > You should also know the phone number of the coast guard. 
    
    From a cellular phone it is "*CG"
    
    Bill

    Generally speaking, does anyone know which has the longer offshore range - 
    VHF or Cellular?

>>>  Generally speaking, does anyone know which has the longer offshore range - 
>>>  VHF or Cellular?

Probably VHF since both are line-of-sight and VHF transmitters are 25W 
and cellular phone transmitters are 3W or less (I think). Probably more 
people have VHF than cellular phone. There have been times along the 
Maine coast when I've been able to contact the marine telephone operator
on VHF when the cellular phone was hopeless. 

If you need help in a hurry, MAYDAY on VHF will almost certainly be more 
effective than calling the Coast Guard on a cellular phone.

    I would say the cell phone with a good antenna would have more range.
    I've talked with fishing boats up to 65 miles out by phone. VHF can't
    do that. SSB on other way.
    
    Steve

    All things being equal - VHF MArine is the better choice watt for watt.
    
    The key (Like Steve -1) indicated, is the antennas. Lots of 2-300 foot
    Cell antennas around. But if your in the right place, the CG might have
    a better antenna to hear. 
    
    You got to pick your spots. On Winni, doubt the CG can hear you.
    
    Given a 25 watt Marine VHF with an 8 ft whip or a 5 watt bag phone -
    the clear winner in almost every case should be the VHF Marine.
    
    BUt - the person your trying to reach on the cell is using a very high
    antenna to hear the cell phone. The VHF with the 8ft whip MIGHT be
    trying to talk to a person with a hand held. A much diffferent
    advantage for the cell phone.
    
    There are ALWAYS changes to the given situation.
    Jack 

 Jack brings up a great point here.

>>You got to pick your spots. On Winni, doubt the CG can hear you.

 If your on the bigger lakes, Winni/Champlaign/Memphramagog etc.... they all
 have cells. Cell phone reception on all these lakes are pretty good to
 excellent. I've been on them all and the phone works fine. Plus, very few
 people use radios on these waters. Actually the trout guides have all gone
 to cell phones. In the past too many locals would here the guides talking
 and give them alot of company now the guides talk cell to cell and noone
 knows where they are.

 If your an ocean person I do belive the VHF should be the primary choice.
 A distress call on Channel 16 can be heard by many people and help could
 come from a fellow boater. Plus the 25watt and good antenna gets you super
 range.But, its more the fact that another boat could come to your aid as most
 ocean folks always have the VHF on.

 -Sully

 PS>Much easier to call Dominos for pizza on the cell than the VHF...

    	Just had someone point something out to me the other day when 
    they went to register a new boat they just got (19' Starcraft).
    Apparently, a gross vehicle weight of 3001 lbs. is the magic number
    where something happens when you go to register your boat. Sounds like
    if you're over 3000 lbs. you need -
    
    	o A title
    	o Yearly trailer inspections
    	o Trailer brakes
    
    	What sounded a bit wierd was that this persons boat and motor was 
    listed as weighing ~1550 lbs. From the dealer, he had something saying
    that the rig weighed 2995 lbs.. Must be one helluva a heavy trailer ?
    Either that, or the difference is in dry vs. wet weight (and/or max.
    capacity weight included ?).
    
    	Anyway, the town clerk rounded it up to 3000, and it caused a clamor 
    when this person went to the registry. They had to check on whether 3000, 
    or over 3000 was the magic number. Just something to consider if you're
    looking to get a new boat I guess.
    
    	Ray

    I approached the 3K mark with my old 20' ranger w/ 200hp and tandem axel
    trailer.  I had title and brakes (with that heavy of a boat, brakes are
    a good idea regardless of the law) and was told I had to have it
    inspected, but never did and never worried about.  I asked a cop I know
    if he ever checked for boat trailer inspections and he said he had alot
    more stuff to worry about than that, and had never checked anyone.
    
    -donmac

 The bigger the toy the higher the joy.

 I had to register and title my trailer as well...

 I understand it like this, If the trailer's GVW is 3k or more
 then it falls into that catagory. Although the boat and motor 
 may not be that much they go by the trailer GVW. So, it may be 
 good you have a heavy duty trailer but you will pay...

 Not only do you have to pay the $50 title fee and the 
 MUCH higher trailer registration fee if your boat motor and 
 trailer came as a "package deal" you may even be required to 
 get a ryder policy for your titled trailer and this can cost 
 an additional $100 per year. If at all possible when making the 
 down payment always see if the dealer can apply that as 
 "paying for the trailer" and this would avoid the insurance 
 requirement.

 I also heard where we use these for "pleasurable activities" that there
 is some kind of waiver we can get? I've not checked into this but, if anyone
 knows let us know.


  -Dave