Conference vicki::boats

    The new gas is bad news for outboards.  What they've done is add
    ethanol and other additives to create a cleaner less polluting fuel.
    According to my owners manual, the use of fuels containing ethanol is
    not recommeded but they will run with up to 10% ethanol with noticable
    performance degradation.  Also, ethanol tends to cause or retain
    moisture in the fuel system.  This can lead to corrosion of metal
    parts.  I am going to mix fuel conditioner with the gas this year to
    see if it helps.  Before I only used it as a stabilizer for the winter.
    
    Joe
    
    

    
    
    	I have also heard that the new gas does not work well in 
    	boat aluminum fuel tanks either.  They tend to deteriorate very
    	quickly with the new fuel.  Also, it has been reported there
    	is no known stabilizer or additive that will correct the
    	problems boat owner will have with the new gas.  I guess the
    	only answer for now is 4 cycle outboards/ inboards / or diesel
    	engines with plastic fuel tanks and alcohol certified fuel lines.
    
    
    		JoyIII
    		George
    

    	I went to the local boat show Friday and asked a few dealers about 
    the gas. One dealer showed me a memo from OMC stating that there's no real
    danger. You can expect harder starting and less efficiency but
    basically no danger.
    	Another dealer had a different story. He stated that Volvo will not
    warrantee any fuel related repairs if the new gas is used. He also
    stated that you should use a water separator in your fuel line because
    of the excess water that's likely to be present. The worst observation
    he made was that the alcohol separates from the gas and concentrates at 
    the bottom of the tank where you fuel intake is located. This means
    that you could be burning a high concentration of alcohol which could
    burn up you engine.
    	This reminds me of the good old days when the electronics industry 
    used alcohol and freon mixtures to clean modules. The mixtures did indeed 
    separate and the alcohol did indeed absorb water. Another thing that 
    happened with this mixture is it would turn acid and eat up aluminum. 
    (I discover this first hand when someone left an Aluminum fixture in a 
    vapor degreaser ovenight. I looked like Swiss cheese the next morning.)
    	I don't have a strong chemical background, but I do have enough
    experience to worry about this new gas. Are there any chemists out
    there that can calm my fears?
    	Luckily I have one recourse. Here in Maine the new gas is only
    required is certain counties. I guess I can trailer the boat to the
    next county to fill her up. What a pain.
    
    Paul  

I asked a dealer on Lake Winnisquam in New Hampshire about reformulated gas.
He mentioned two positive things;

1 The gas is to be sold exclusively during the wintertime. It would be too
  volatile for summer use.

2 New Hampshire doesn't mandate the use of the gas north of Merrimack County
  which does not include the lakes region.

As a snowmobiler, he was adamant about not buying fuel south of some town or
other. But, as a boater, he was not concerned at all.  He also repeatedly
refered to the fuel as 'oxygenated' but gave a long formulation name for
the alchohol used in it.

Please, this is strictly hear-say. And I was there as a boating customer, not
a snowmobiler. It may have been part of the pitch. But he sells fuel at his
Marina so if it's BS, he's got a big set of brass in his pocket.

Kris

    We just picked up our new 1995 Bayliner Trophy last night.  Having read 
    in another notes file that the MTBE gas is wrecking havoc on lawnmowers, 
    chain saws, triphammers, and outboards, we are quite concerned.  I asked 
    the salesman what we could do to keep our boat in good running condition.
    He told us to use only those oils with TC-W3 on the label.  It's
    supposed to work better with the new gas.  However, I don't believe it
    will stop the separation problem.
    
    Our manual says:
    
       We do not recommend the use of gasoline which contains alcohol
       because of the possible adverse effect the alcohol may have on
       the fuel system.  In general, if only gasoline containing
       alcohol is available, it must not contain more than 10% ethanol
       or 5% methanol, and the addition of a Quicksilver Water
       Separating Fuel Filter is recommended.
    
    My questions:
    
    How can we find out what the alcohol percentage is in the gas?  
    Has anyone used a water-separating filter?
    Has anyone heard about the TC-W3 oil?  (We bought two cases.)  
    
    And one last question:
    
    We live in Nashua but will be mooring the boat in Cape Neddick, ME (in
    the Yorks).  Does anyone know if there are any gas stations in either of 
    these areas that DO NOT sell the MTBE gas?
    
    
                                         

    After reading this note, I spoke with Steve (Green?) at Green's Marine
    in Hooksett N.H., where I bought my Merc 5 hp in 1990. They have been
    a Merc dealer for a long time and considered knowledgable and very
    reputable business for decades.
    
    Steve said that reformulatd gas and oxygenated gas was no problem
    for my outboard. He said that Mercs prior to some year (I think it was
    1979) could have problems from internal parts being damaged by the
    alcohol, but other than that, there was no problem.
    
    I asked him about octane and he told me that I should use 89 octane,
    and to avoid premium (93 octane as it would run too "hot").
    
    Now the big question? Is running a higher octane than needed really
    going to run too "hot"? I thought higher octane gas burned slower
    (due to the longer chain octane molecules) and that the only risk of
    using too high an octane is wasting money.
    
    He also recommended the new TC3 oil. Last year they were saying that
    my motor was originally spec'ed for the TC2 oil and that there was no
    neeed/benefit to running the newer "better" oil.
    
    I have always found the folks at Green's to be well informed and
    trustworthy, but the octane and TC3 questions above have me a bit
    confused.
    
    Bill
    

    We were also told us to use 89 to 91 octane -- that we shouldn't use 
    anything higher and that the 89 would probably be best.  They also told 
    us our Mercury Force 120 was covered on warranty -- even for the MBTE gas 
    (although I hope we don't have to test them on that!).

    One reason for not using higher octane is "THEY USE ALCHOL" to get 
    the higher octane. We have seen problems with street vehicles having
    problem,s with fuel lines after running higher octane fuel for a
    period of time. No one is sure how long, but people that have had
    problems remember switching to higher octane around a year before.
    Out here the problem is mostly with non-brand name fuels. They have to
    compete on price and alchool is a cheap additive.

    
    I bought my SEA NYMPH at Green's.......Very professional indeed.
    
    It takes more compression to fire a higher octane gasoline and the
    higher the compression,,,the hotter the burn and the more horsepower.
    
    I think we worry too much.
    
                                     -Steve

    > It takes more compression to fire a higher octane gasoline...
    
    I thought the reverse was true - that for a high compression engine, 
    high octane was needed to keep from burning too quickly (and knocking).
    
    High octane gasoline should have no problem burning in my average
    compression outboard. It will just burn a little slower (that is the
    purpose of higher octane, so that ir won't burn too quickly, and knock)
    
    Using high octane in my outboard isn't going to change the compression.
    That's what my question is about - a given motor, whth a fixed
    compression ratio.
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bill