Conference vicki::boats

    
    I ran into a similar problem on a car. Try spraying WINDEX on the plug
    wire in a low light condition. If they are bad the spray causes the
    wires to "arc" out on each other.
    
    
                                                        Guy
    

Have you checked the fuel/water separators?  I had problems a couple years ago
with water in the fuel.  Outboards just don't run well with a water fuel mixture.
I believe that the effect is minimized with inboards.  Sounds like it could be
fuel related, but you already checked that stuff.

Gordon

I would check for a fuel pump beginning to fail or a sticking float in the carb

Either of these might result in limiting your RPMs as you described.

Does your engine have 1 or two filters (one at the fuel pump; one at the carb
inlet)?  If so did you change both of them??

Tom

    	Can you connect the starboard engines gas tank to the port engine
    and vice-versa ? This would at least eliminate water in the fuel and
    possible cracks/etc. in the fuel line letting in air at a certain fuel
    rate draw.
    
    	Ray

	Sounds as if you have taken appropriate steps thus far, but still
haven't isolated the problem to fuel or ignition.  What did the parts you
removed look like ?  (dirty or clean filters, burnt points, rotor or cap ?)
Did you replace the points and condenser with new, (or with old spares) ?
In addition to the other suggestions I would offer some additional suggestions
based on some of my past experiences.  Did you lubricate the rubbing block
with silicon lube ?  (I've seen this type of problem when someone substituted
vasoline for silicon lube)  In a previous note you indicate the Queen has
454's.  Are these Crusaders, or do they have Prestolite distributors ?
My 350's (270 hp) Crusaders are hard on condensers, and display the same
symptoms.  You may want to change the condenser again.  Also remove the noise
suppression condenser on the coil (if so equipped) as an elimination process.
Also check the wire between the distributor and the coil for intermittent
open (and also the ground wire inside the distributor from the breaker plate
to case if so equiped).  Also check for an intermittent 12 V supply wire to
the battery terminal of the coil.
	As for the fuel side, add MDR Water Sorb to the fuel then after 
running look for any "white fluid" indications in the filters and carb which
indicate the presence of water.  You could also test the fuel pump by attaching
a pressure gauge to the output and cranking the engine.  Check the spec for
your engine, but my guess would be about 6 psi.  Then do a volume test by
measuring the volume of fuel the pump can pump into a container in a given
period of time.  My guess would be about a quart in 30 seconds.  Use 
appropriate caution in doing these tests for obvious reasons, unless your
solution involves a new boat through insurance money.

	Good Luck, Rick 

    As an earlier reply suggested, check the filter that's inside the carb
    at the fuel line inlet (you have to remove the fuel lines and the
    adapter at the carb). A friend recently had a similar sympton and
    replacing (or removing) the filter cured it.

        What did the parts you removed look like ?  (dirty or clean filters, burnt points, rotor or
        cap ?)
    
    Answer:  The Rotor was discolored and the inside tip of the cap coming
    from the coil was worn away and carboned up
    
    Did you replace the points and condenser with new, (or with old spares)
    ?
    
    ANswer:  New out of the box from the store -- Was going to replace the
    coil -- Did -- But discovered the one I installed was NON-Resistive --
    The one on the engine apparently had an internal resistor -- I put the
    old one back on when I discovered that little whoopsy --  I only ran
    the engine for about 3 minutes on the non Resistive coil.
    
      Did you lubricate the rubbing block with silicon lube ? 
    
    ANswer:  Don't know -- Marine Mechanix did it -- I'll ask -- I don't
    have any vasoline on the QUeen anyway --Not even K-Y Jelly! -- So
    there!
    
      Are these Crusaders, or do they have Prestolite distributors ?
    
    Answer:
    
    Crusaders -- BUT -- I think the distributors were replaced to
    accomodate that the Queen has mechnical tachs.  The caps are automotive
    caps (High top ones with side access to set points)  Points were set
    with a Dwell tach.
    
    My 350's (270 hp) Crusaders are hard on condensers, and display the
    same smptoms.  You may want to change the condenser again.  Also remove the
    noise
    
    ANswer:  I will try this one
    
    Also check the wire between the distributor and the coil for
    intermittent pen (and also the ground wire inside the distributor from the breaker
    plate o case if so equiped).  Also check for an intermittent 12 V supply
    wire to the battery terminal of the coil.
    
    I'll try this one too.
    
    I was wondering about the fuel pump starting to croak -- The thing that
    directs away from the fuel system is that the engine ran fine for about
    4 hours after the maintenance.  Then again, regarding fuel, the tanks
    were full when I started out and maybe the weight of the fuel in the
    tanks "assisted" the fuel pump in getting fuel into the bowl.
    
    Regarding fuel filters -- 2 -- One before the pump and one in-line
    tothe carb -- Both changed -- Both were "the worst looking filters I
    have ever seen in all of my years of working on boats."  (So my
    Mechanix said to me when he saw them -- They were so bad that that he
    wanted to mount them on his wall to show customers! -- The Starboard
    filters were worse than the Port ones -- No problem with the Stbd
    engine)
    
    Fuel -- All line coming from the tanks are single piece steel -- I
    don't know what kind but I don't think they have an air leak -- I do
    have rubber hose going into the fuel filter in front ofthe fuel pump.
    
    I'm going to see the Queen tomorrow and will finish out the electrical
    easter egging -- If I still have the problem after that, I'll dive into
    the fuel systems.  If I still have the problem, I'm gonna shoot the
    Queen!
    
    Dennis

    
        If you want to keep a constant eye on fuel pressure most
    performance automotive shops willhave acces to getting inline fuel
    pressure gauges that can be mounted before the carb.
    
    
                                                             Guy

Dennis,

A 10 meter Trojan next to me had the same problem, did all the same fixs, and
for the hell of it, replaced the plug wires on the naughty engine.

PROBLEM SOLVED !!  It seems that with heat build up, never cold, the wires would
leak some of the time, if not most of the time.

Give it a try --- cheap fix (relatively)!

Good Luck!

Don

One of the maintanance manuals for a car I had specifed a value of 7,000 to
8,000 ohms (if I remember correctly) max for a sparkplug wire.  If above that
it's time for a change.

I had a problem with a miss in the engine. Pulling the wires one by one isolated
the problem, and slapping an ohm meter on that wire showed much higher resistance
while all the others were about 7 to 10k or so;  so I guess they werent kidding.

TOm

    The saga continues:
    
    Folks, I gotta tel ya -- I think I have this black cloud following me
    when it comes to boats.
    
    Soooo, I call Crusader Marine and talk to the technoids -- I discover
    that Crusader always use non-resistive coils on their engines.  The
    ceramic resistor is mounted on top of the coil holder.  One side of the
    Resistor runs down to a bolt on the starter motor -- The technoid asked
    if I had that configuration -- NOPE on both engines -- Then I
    remembered -- The previous owner had the 2 crusadersput in -- I bought
    her when she had less than 20 hours on engines.
    
    In order to get the engines and xmissions into the queen, the marine
    mechanics had to tear down the engines to the short block to get them
    into the holes.  Guess what they didn't put back on.
    
    As it turned out, I had to replace the coil on the starboard engine --
    I did put the resistive coil in there.
    
    Sooo, when I visited the queen this weekend, I put in a resistive coil. 
    I also checked the in-line fuel filter and found some particulate in
    there -- That's the downstream filter from the big one.  I guess the
    big one must be dirty again -- I'll check it this week-end.
    
    Then I checked the fuel -- Dip stick - no guages -- To my surpise I
    only had about 70 gallons left -- That said I got a whopping .5 miles
    to the gallon -- I told the fleet Admiral (my wife) about this and she
    said: "Well, honey, you remember when my car was acting up and it was
    the sparkplug wire -- I went through gas like I had a leak."
    
    Sooo, I guess now, based on a previous noter's recommendation, I'll
    change out the plugs.
    
    Now to the Scurvy Princess:
    
    I have this 18 footer that is really the boat from hell -- I had the
    engine rebuilt -- 135 H/P Volvo.  Put it in the water and took it out
    for a run -- Damn fast piece of fiberglass.
    
    I won't tell U the stuff I went through to get it to that point. 
    Anyway, the thing heats up on me -- Soo Okay -- Break-in -- I remove
    the thermostat just in case.
    
    Oil pressure: 80 lbs -  That's right 80
    Temperature builds to 145
    Come off plane - ALmost instantaneous movement to 185-190  
    Cools down to 160
    
    Come in -- Rattle in outdrive -- Diagnosis -- U-joint
    
    I gave the boat back to the mechanix and told him I thought I have an
    engine problem.  I think the oil pressure and the temperature profile
    are related -- When I get to idle on a warm engine, oil pressure is
    about 35 pounds.
    
    I'm begining to hate boating - I told the fleet admiral at lunch that
    maybe we ought to just live on a lake -- I mean -- - How bad can a
    pontoon boat be?
    
    Dennis
    Any thoughts?   Didn't feel any contamination in the oil
    

    
    Hi Dennis
    
    On the Scurvey Queens problem, I would like to add one thing.
    
    Think spark advance, I just went thru a nightmare on a rebuilt
    engine the symptom was the same 2500 ok anything above she would
    bog down and bounce around. Upon removing the plate beneath the
    points I found a mucho rust and a broken spring on the advance
    mechanism. Also it sounds like you have GM automotive distributor
    caps on the queen (adjustment window) which could allow excess
    moisture within.
    
    Anyhow I wish you luck and please let us now how you made out.
    
    regards Pat Brady

    
    
    RE: .11
    
    Pontoon boats are great...  They don't go fast, don't use much gas
    (60 HP on my 20 ft BassBuggy), don't fill up with water in rainy
    weather, etc).
    
    Sure beats the maintenance that I do on my buddies 20' Century
    with Mopar 360 ci V-8.  Talk about electrical and fuel problems.
    
    cheers