Conference vicki::boats

On the hull, i would say no stress as the weight would be distributed 

reasonably evenly in the mud. I'm not sure about the running gear.

I'm sure you could build a suspended cradle arrangement and solve this

problem. Not sure what building this would entail.


JIm

    I see boats in mud a lot in Salem harbour near my brothers house.
    Assuming you have all mud under the muck then it causes no damage.
    I'd be concerned that under that first inch of mud is a bolder
    with a sharp knife edge just ready for that hull kissing moment.
    
    I would think sand is not as bad.  The boat would not settle as low
    as in mud/muck which is like quicksand till you hit a rock 8^0
        
    -< Tuna Tail >-                

I did that a couple of times on the Westport River. Seemed okay to me
until I was there just when the hull was maybe an inch or two off the
bottom (gravelly). The boat pounded the gravel with the wave action; up
four inches, down four inches, BANG! This was with my 17' Boston Whaler
Montauk.

On mud it might be okay. 

I don't know what happens when a deep vee lays down (your Chris
probably has 40 degree deadrise??), and as the tide comes in there's
going to be a delay between rising water and the boat floating, if
there's any suction holding flat parts of the hull down. 




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    Personally, I wouldn't want my expensive prop, prop shaft and rudder
    subject to this treatment nor would I want to take the chance of having
    my water intake scoop plugged with mud when I start the engines up
    again.  Some boat designs utilize a wooden skeg on the bottom that
    would protect the running gear, probably for this reason.  If local
    laws allow it and your boat isn't too big, I would look into one of the
    boat lifts that raise the boat right out of the water before the tide
    starts going out so that you won't have to worry about the boat
    bouncing around on top of a set of bunks until the tide is out/in.
    I would doubt that the mud flats are an area where a permanent
    structure would be allowed.
    Wayne

    We have what Wayne is talking about out here in the GLakes.
    
    I'd compare the cost of that item to the cost of a submerged cradle
    that the boat would sit on at low tide
    
    If the costs  were close, I'd go with the lift out.
    
    My .02
    
    Dennis

    I happened to receive an Overton's Discount Boating Catalog (they send
    out two different ones.  One with lots of pretty pictures and this one
    with usefull boat hardware and stuff) yesterday.
    On page 55 is a "Ace Verti-Lift".  $2550 for a 7000LB unit, $2960 for 
    10,000LB.  As the ad says: "Perfect solution to shallow water
    installations"   The picture shows what appears to be about a 24-28'
    boat resting on a lifting cradle suspended between four  pilings.  I
    think you supply the pilings since these look like used telephone
    poles.  Made with hot dipped galvanized parts.
    Overton's number is 800-334-6541 if you want more info.
    Wayne

    A couple of thoughts/clarifications. The area where I'm thinking of setting
    the boat down is not mud-mud, more like an eel-grass bed. Firm but will
    give somewhat. Not too concerned about my out-drive getting clogged. As
    for the lift ideas, too many $$$ for me at the moment.
    
    I thought about the cradle idea that Jim mentioned, but had the
    same reservations as Wayne did about the hull boucing up and down on it,
    altho cushioning could be designed. This thing would also have to be self 
    seating, or the boat might hang-up somewhere unexpectadly. The leg idea, 
    on the other hand, goes where the boat goes, so I wouldn't have to worry 
    about keeping it within inches of the cradle at all times.
     

       Last summer my friend 22 ft. Sisu (lobster style hull) sat on the
    mud durring an extreamly low tide in Cohasset harbor, after settling 
    in, the suck from the mud was enough to hold the boat until the tide
    came in through the scuppers and sunk the boat. He was not very happy
    that night working until 1:00 am to get the engine (inboard) washed 
    off and restarted. The starter lasted a couple of weeks before he 
    had to replace it, I think that there were other problems but I don't 
    remember the details. I would think about it but I would't do it.
    
    					Gary
     

   -1 >>> 22 ft. Sisu (lobster style hull) sat on the mud ....the suck from 
          the mud was enough to hold the boat until the tide came in through 
          the scuppers and sunk the boat.
    
    This is the kinda thing I want to avoid with the ACME boat-leg
    installation kit. The idea is evolving: 4 holes in the transom, 2 on each 
    side drilled in a line at about 45 degrees.  Then you would bolt 4X4" 
    poles which radiate to the ground. When not in use, the bolt holes (above 
    the water line, 'natch) could be sealed with bolts/gaskets. When you're 
    ready to come ashore, remove the bolts, attach the legs and watch the tide
    go out with your boat standing upright. Two poles at the transom plus the 
    bow would supply 3 points of support. Bottom of legs would have to be 
    designed so as not to penetrate the mud. Diagram follows.  Comments?

                              ------------------ 
                              _     o    o     -  <-- transom
                              -    *      *    -
                              -   o        o   -
                               - *          * -
                                o            o
                 legs -->      o -          - o
            * = bolts         o    -      -    o              
                            ====     -  -     ====  
           |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||  mud/eelgrass 

    Personally, I hate the thought of drilling holes thru the transom and
    if you only drill them above the water line, the legs will be able to 
    generate quite a bit of leverage on your transom as the boat initially
    rocks forward and back as the tide goes out and comes back in.  I can
    see potential transom damage with this set-up.  
    How about going back to the cradle idea but suspend it between two
    pilings (sp??) via cheap trailer winches on each side.  Bring the boat
    in, beach the bow, and then winch the cradle up so it is snug against
    the bottom of the boat.  Maybe even enough to take the stern partially
    out of the water.  This way the hull won't be free to move around on
    the cradle while the tide is going out or coming in.  You can carpet
    the top of the cradle.
    
    How big is this boat?  Is it an outboard, I/O or inboard?
    Wayne
    

    Some good points Wayne. I too hate the thought of drilling holes in the
    transom, although I've done it before to secure outboards from theft.
    And the legs would transmit some stress, wish I could anticipate how much.
    My boat is a 25' Criss Craft with an I/O and a DEEP V. You got me thinking
    about your idea of a modified cradle arrangement. If the cradle were, 
    within limits, free-floating, I could bring the boat in during hi-water, 
    position it over this mechanism, and snug it up to the hull. Perhaps this 
    could be done with or without the help of pilings. Good stuff, you must
    be an inguneer.
    
    /dirk
      
    
    
    Never had success keeping
    pilings in place, no matter how fa
     
    If I understand it, the cradle
    would not be fixed as in previous discussion, free-floating 

    What you are trying to do is like what I do each spring when I first
    launch my boat.  It's a 15' 1965 Century Resorter mahogany ski boat.
    When I first put it in the water it leaks like a sieve until the wood
    swells up (about 3 days).  I keep it docked at a guys house where I can
    launch right from his beach.  I leave the boat strapped to the bunk
    style trailer and leave the bilge pump off.  The boat fills with about 
    3 inches of water and and swells nicely. The prop shaft has
    consistently gone right back in alignment.  After three days, I turn on
    the bilge pump and let it pump out.  The boat will actually start
    lifting the trailer from the bottom.  Then I loosen the straps.  The
    boat floats off and I take the trailer out.  If you could figure a way
    to strap the bunk to the hull, you could do the same thing.  If you
    could counter-weight the bunk so that it would stay on the bottom, you
    could attach two buoys on each side to the lifting straps.  Drive thru
    the middle of the buoys, beach the bow, then lift the cradle up to the
    bottom of the boat with the lifting straps.  Attach them to the rear
    cleats on each side of the boat.  You would have to also have an anchor
    attached to each buoy to keep the stern headed out until the tide goes
    out and secure the bow to shore but this would be a non-permanent
    arrangement that hopefully would be acceptable per the local laws.
    
    Yes, I have a civil engineering degree but I haven't used it since
    coming to DEC.  I just love to tinker!  Especially with other's money!
    Wayne
    

    So what are your going to do when there is a full moon, high tide, and
    a storm pushing the water up???? Either those pilings are going to 
    float,the boat attactment points are going to pull out, or the anchors
    are going to sink your boat.
    
    How does the boat slowly lower after high tide?
    
    If you build some kind of a submerible dock, how much time do you have
    on either side of high tide to cast off and then return? You willing
    to spend another 12 hours out there in case you miss it?
    
    In fact, will these constraits fall into your lifestyle? If high tide
    is 4:30 am on Saturday. Looks like you are getting up early to park
    it elsewhere for the weekend, or you can simply go clamming during the
    daylight hours both Saturday and Sunday. A real bummer on that 3rd
    weekend in August when the weather is at it's best.
    
    The ocean is no lake.
    
    In the Beverly/Peabody area, I see lots of boats sitting in the mud
    flats up river at low tide. I suggest a ride down Rt 62 and ask a
    couple of these folks come spring (right now the boats are pulled
    because of ice flows). Or ask the local harbormaster. These folks
    have seen it all.

    Ok, I know we've beat this to death but my boat is still seriously
    stuck in a snowbank down by the woods and I can't dig it out to work on
    it cause I sold my tractor ...
    
    I know where there are some used railroad rails just sitting waiting
    for a new purpose in life.  Set the rails apart the width of the track
    of your boat trailer and take the tires off of the rims of the trailer.
    You'll need alot of railroad ties to keep it from sinking and a winch
    with a long cable mounted on shore to pull the whole thing out.
    
    On second thought........   Never mind.
    

    How much do Sikorsky Sky Cranes rent for?

    RE:1152.12>>> ...each spring when I first launch my boat...it leaks
                  like a sieve until the wood swells up.
    
    Gone are the days when this kid puts a wooden boat in the water, had my 
    fill of sinking, swelling, sinking skiffs. But the concept of keeping it
    on a cradle is what I thinking about.
    
    RE:1152.13>>> So what are your going to do when there is a full moon,
                  high tide, and a storm pushing the water up????
    
    Must admit, I've never had luck getting pilings to stay put, no matter
    how deep they're planted in the ooze. Was thinking of a free-floating
    cradle which I would drive up to much like one drives into a submersed
    trailer. Then secure the cradle to the hull with straps, and let the 
    tide run out when it may, and let the boat settle where it wants.
    
    RE:1152.13>>> how much time do you have on either side of high tide to 
                  cast off and then return? Are you willing to spend another 
                  12 hours out there in case you miss it?
                  
    I have about a 2-hour window to get in/out. In 30 years, I've only
    missed it once (misjudged a moon tide), but I was still within walking
    distance.
    
    RE:1152.13>>>In the Beverly/Peabody area, I see lots of boats sitting in 
                 the mud flats up river at low tide... Or ask the local
                 harbor-master. These folks have seen it all.
    
    If they're anything like the folks near the water where I am, they're 
    content to watch the water come in and out and arrange they're schedule
    to that rhythm. I'm looking to cheat the tide.
    
    /Dirk
    

i thought this was (possibly) a little crazy, however the more i ponder

i think it can be done.

Guess i might consider sinking a mooring ( not a mushroom) tie the

floating cradle to it, (cradle design is further than this note)

strap in the stern and the bow and let it settle as it wants to.


Hey this may work, others have done it.

JIm

    Jim, alot of people think my ideas are a little crazy at first until
    they get to know me and then it is confirmed.
    
    Now, to invent a telescoping boat trailer tongue so that one can keep
    their drive wheels on the dry part of the launch ramp.  Could be a big 
    seller for people who don't want to invest in a four wheel drive
    vehicle just to launch a boat.  I had a problem last fall taking my
    boat out cause the lake was down and I had to back my truck (4wd Ford
    Ranger) into the water to a point where water was above the level of
    the doors and the exhaust was six inches under water.  If I only had 
    6 more feet on the trailer tongue, I would have been ok.
    Wayne

    > Now, to invent a telescoping boat trailer tongue 
    
    You are too late - sailors have been doing this for years.
    I believe it's the trailer that I have seen for Catalina 22s.
    
    Alongside the regular tongue, there are a couple of rectangular
    sockets (like a receiver hitch on a tow vehicle), and slung underneath
    on the frame below the bunks is this monfuciously long tongue
    with hitch that can be plugged into the rectangular sockets for
    launching. Haven't seen it in operation but looks like it
    is just the solution.
    
    Bill
    

    Then the solution is obvious.  I must sell my boat and get a Catalina
    22!  I'll have to check it out.  I could do something similar on my
    trailer.
    Thanks, Wayne (Of course now I have to come up with another invention
    that will make me rich)

    why not get a good jockey wheel and a winch which could be attached to 
    the tow bar. 
    reverse the car to the end of the ramp,hook up the winch,lower 
    jockey wheel and release the coupling,push trailer back.
    launch boat and winch trailer up again.
    
    the other reg
    
    
    
    

    Reg, this is a sandy beach and the "jockey wheel" (we call them trailer
    jacks although I like your term better) is only about two inches wide
    and would just dig in quickly.  I have two big baloon style wheelbarrow
    tires which I was thinking of attaching to an 8' long piece of angle
    iron.  Put a hitch ball on the end with the tires/axle and a cheap
    trailer coupler on the other end.  I could then crank down the jockey
    wheel long enough to get the "extension" under the trailer tongue and 
    hook the other end to my truck's trailer hitch.  This would give me
    another 8 feet to back up before the inside of my truck would require
    a bilge pump.  (Come to think of it, I do have a brand new spare
    automatic bilge pump in the garage.)  As long as I was backing up in a
    straight line this would work for a short distance.
    
    You guys must be heading into fall pretty soon, right?
    Wayne

    
    
    Yep things are starting to cool down slightly,but not too much
    it gets cool about april then back into it in august.(or at least
    thats our ski race calander).
    the bridge to bridge boat race is sunday may 1 and thats generaly 
    in cool weather.
    however if youve got a big enough fire on the bank you can ski all year.
    
    at one of the ski grounds i use we actauly have an electric
    winch which we hook our trailers to.
    the idea for this started when one of the originals skiers
    used to pop a tyre off an old car and wrap a cable around the rim
    lowering and raising the boats that way.
    im not sure how he locked the diff (probably just adjusted the brake
    on the other side to full on.
    however this is a long steep ramp and i havent seen this system used 
    elsewhere.
    
    tks 
    the other reg