Conference vicki::boats

 There really isn't that much to winterizing a outboard. If the motor is down the water
drain out so there isn't any water  to freeze. As far as the cold and taking it out for a 
test drive. That shouldn't be problem, I take my boat out in these conidition all the time.
It in the spring for Salmon fishing and the ice is still on the lake in spots. Winterizing
should have been done by now but it still isn't to late. There are note is this
conference on that is involved in winterizing.

Couple of things to look for

	Check the lower end oil. Before you go out the drive, just let a little of the oil
	out. What you're looking for is the color of the oil and the signs of water.
	The oil should be about the same color as motor oil and clear. If it milky color
	then water is getting in and the lower end needs work. Also check this again
	after the test drive, just in case the oil was just put in.

	Compression should be check on the power head. You should have the dealer do this or get
	manual on this engine for instruction.


	Check the floor of the boat out. Look for soft spots. I use a hammer and tap the
	floor softly. when you tap a soft shot is just sounds a lot different. Also do the
	same thing to the transom. These areas do rot.

	Check the fiberglass for checks and bulbs.

	I have also brought my boats used and have had pretty good luck so far. But I feel
	the life of a outboard is about 10 years and then it will need to be rebiult or
	replaced. Of course if you kind a engine that has been sitting idle, this
	number can be increased. 

	Boats are a money pit !!! Expect it to cost you a few hundred each year just for
	things that come up. This does include thing like

	 I need that LCR
	 I need another fishing rod 
	 I need that set of skis
	 Would it be nice if we had .....
	 Repairs .....

	 The list go on and on and on ......


				Good luck and hope you find what your looking for.
						Jim	

      WHEN did the owner do the rings? That is NOT a simple job by any
    means and if he has not run the motor for at least several days of use,
    I would want some kind of guarantee from him on anything that was
    touched during that work. (It involves removing the carbs, reed plate,
    the heads, then undoing the connecting rods and sliding the pistons
    out. Remove and replace rings then reverse above.
    
      Just remember, the most expensive part of the entire boat is the
    powerhead. If that is healthy then you're most of the way home. So THAT 
    and the lower unit are what you should concentrate on.
    
      If the boat is fiberglass and seems sound with look and walking in
    it, it probably is. .1's advice for checking the boat is good.
    
    				Kenny

    I'll put in my usual response; 
    
    Don't underestimate the horsepower requirements. How big is the present
    owner (height & weight). Speaking as a 210 lb slalom (single) skier,
    you'd be hard pressed to get me out of the water with 90 hp, 2 kids,
    and 2 adults on board. Spotters need to be age 14 in MA, so you're
    looking at 4 bodies (including the kids) in the boat and one behind. I
    dare say, you couldn't do it. The other option is to use two skis then
    kick one off and then try to get back and pick it up before it gets run
    over or lost. I don't like dropping skis, and I like running over them
    even less.
    
    Don't recall if the boat you're looking at is a open or closed bow.
    With an open bow you can at least shift the weight forward to help get
    the boat on plane. This summer I watched a closed bow try to pull a
    skier for 25 minutes, without success. 
    
    Why do you think 115hp is too much ?  I'd say that was a bare minimum,
    on a good day, with a tail wind.
    
    ~jeff 

    Jeff,
    	The reason I feel 115 might be too much could just be inexperience.
    My own skiing experience (I could stand up and ski for about 3-5 minutes
    before falling) comes from the late 70's, where I rented a 35-40HP boat
    and skis on Greenwood Lake in NJ with 2 other friends. None of us knew
    how to ski, but after a day of trial and error (and a lot of laughs) we
    were all able to standup. Certainly, we were not elegant, but we had
    fun. Unfortunately, I don't know remember if the boat we rented was
    fiberglass, wood, or aluminum.
    
    	The person we rented our vacation house from has a 16' Mirrocraft
    aluminum boat with a 40HP Evinrude outboard. The boat is an open bow
    with three bench seats. The steering console is bolted onto the front
    seat and the operator sits on the right side of the middle bench seat.
    This boat has sufficient power to pull the owner and family. I haven't
    tried skiing with this boat because he doesn't allow his cottage
    renters to use his boats (which I understand).
    
    	I realize that it takes more HP to push a fiberglass boat through
    the water than an aluminum boat. Simply stated, I want to buy adequate
    power so that I can ski (an inexperienced, 220 lb. skier) with my 2
    children, wife, and spotter riding in the boat. I don't want to buy
    more than I need to avoid added weight, fuel consumption, trailering
    load, and maintenance costs.
    
    	I feel better about the 115HP engine after reading your note. I
    don't want to underpower the boat and be surprised that I couldn't
    ski.
    
    	Of course, the big picture (no pun intended) here is I want to buy
    "one boat for all time." But, as I read of the enjoyment most people
    in this conference share, I fully realize that the desire to upgrade
    is always present.
    
    Take care,
    Bruce
    
    w

    
    Bruce - I also don't think the 115 is too big for other reasons. It
    will not be much (if any) heavier or larger than a 90-100, since in
    that size range the same block is often used. As far as fuel
    consumption goes, its possible you'll get even better fuel mileage than
    with a smaller motor due to not having to push it as hard to reach
    cruising speed. In any case, *you* always have the speed control and so
    to a fair extent, the fuel consumption control. Keep in mind that about
    3500 rpms will give you the best MPG. (This is almost the same on every
    boat/motor test I have ever seen) My guess is that you should turn a
    top speed in the mid to high 40's with that setup.
    
      Another factor is that the newer hull designs with an increase in V
    angle at the transom mean it takes more power to move a given weight
    through the water. So, the deeper the V, the more power you need for a
    speed. This is generally a good thing for family boats since it aids
    ride and handling immensely over flatter bottomed boats.
    
    				Kenny

	Well, if you want to take it for a test ski this week-end on 
Lake Boone....    I'll drive for you (-:


	As to whether a 115 is  "enough"  well,  a 115 2 cycle will 
usually have a LOT more pull out of the hole than a 140 or so 4 cycle. 
Whether it will be enough to pop a >200# skier up depends....

2 skis or 1    

good form or less good   

65 or 72 inch ski(s)


	Taking  ALL  the family and friends while pulling the biggest 
skier ?  Maybe on day 1, after a couple of trips it gets down to 
driver, spotter and skier - some days its tough to get a 3'some 
together )-:

	Some people can't hold on to a weak pull for a long time, 
others can't take a sudden hard pull.  More power offers more 
lattitude(pun).


	Reg

    Reg,
    	Answers to your questions:
    
    	1/2 skis? --> 2 skis
    
    	good form or newbie? --> newbie
    
    	65 or 72 inch skis --> inexperienced here - don't know the
    			       differences or the advantages/disadvantages
    
    The engine is a Mercury 115 HP, burns a gas/oil mixture, so I assume 2
    cycle.
    
    Hope this focuses the picture.
    
    
    Thanks,
    Bruce
    

    
    the other way to get more grunt would be to go down a pitch size
    on the propellor this would lower top end but give more pull,
    kind of like changing down a gear in a car.
    if you find youve got heaps of pull but no top end go up a pitch 
    and youll possibly save some petrol and get a higher top end.
    
    i agree its better to have a larger motor than a smaller motor.
    
    tks the other reg
    

    
    Oh Jeff......   :>)
    
    We got you outa the water with 3 adults in the boat....behind 
    my ex-Baja with the 115HP, remember?  I do!  I also recall
    that you had a full wetsuit on, which made things even more
    interesting.  The guys sat up front in the bow-rider and you
    managed to get out of the water. 
    
    So, it is possible for a 200lb+ slalomn skier to do a 
    deep water start behind a 115 but...he's going to push
    some water.  I've mentioned this to Bruce.  It won't be
    a problem for Bruce to do a deep water start with two skiis,
    and he can always drop one ski.
    
    I do agree with getting more HP, such as the 150.  Then
    you've got gas consumption to consider.
    
    My experience is you buy your first boat, outgrow it, buy
    another, outgrow that one, and so on and so forth.  :>)
    
    It would be nice to buy a first and last boat from the start.
    
    Good Luck Bruce.
    
    Jeanne
    

re                <<< Note 1129.9 by DOCTP::DECAROLIS "Jeanne" >>>

	I remember getting up behind Jeanne's Baja

	For reference;  I think I might have weighed ~190# at the time,
I was on a 68 inch (single) ski.   It wasn't until Peter went up in 
the bow that I could get up at all - though I COULD hang on for what 
seemed like an hour.  I don't remember whether I had a wet suit on, 
though if it was at Attitash I probably did.  So, whats all this about 
"too much"  power ?   I am NOT a strong guy, but I can hold onto most 
any V8 350 cu inch or so ski boat at full throttle - as long as I'm 
ready for it and there's no slack in the rope, this is with a 65 inch 
ski (small for my weight).  I don't know if I could hold onto Mike 
Smith's Flightcraft {200HP Mercury outboard} or Dave George's Malibu 
{454 cu inch ~330 HP}  and I may never ask them to  "Hit it HARD !"

	So, when do we get to ski behind Jeanne's nu bote ?

	Reg

    I still haven't seen someone agree to take this boat for a spin.  Too
    cold?  I'ld do it but I live too far away.
    Wayne

    Bruce,
    
    I live on lake boone, and though not quite as knowlegable as some of
    the other boater-noters, I've had my 85HP Force Outboard for 7 of it's
    8 years of life. 
    
    I'd be happy to meet you to evaluate the boat and engine.
    
    As a previous reply stated, have you queried the owner on how much use
    has this boat had since the rings were replaced? Do you have a
    compression gauge? I don't.
    
    Call me a work (297-2705) and we can exchange schedules and home
    phones.
    
    Bill Servey

    To answer your question Reg.... in the spring!
    
    jd/
    

    Folks,
    
    		I've got someone to go on the ride (someone's recommended
    regular mechanic) if the weather doesn't cave in.
    
    	Thanks for all of your responses to this and my other notes. It's
    because of you and this conference that I've been able to come up to
    speed quickly.
    
    	I think we'll be boat owners soon, so we'll be active in the
    conference. I'll keep you posted.
    
    	Please keep the info flowing (see notes 1130/1131).
    
    Thanks!
    Bruce
    

    Regarding engine size -- I have an 18ft Glastron with a 135 H.P Volvo
    I/O -- Ain't over powered
    
    Regards,
    
    Dennis