Conference vicki::boats

    I HATE fog.  As a small boater, I've been stuck at the ramp on several
    occassions because of the stuff.
    
    My most amusing fog story (actually, the only amusing one), was a few
    weeks ago when my partner and I arrived at the Salisbury ramp at 3:00
    a.m. to find it VERY foggy.  The amusing part was that 2 other boats
    had launced before us and took a right off the ramp.  I hope it wasn't
    any of you!  For those of you not familiar with Salisbury, that leads
    to a very small dead end cove.
    
    Anyway, the two boats were going round and round yelling at each other.
    Within a hundred yard of the ramp, they had completely lost their
    bearings.  It was amusing because it was a very calm area with no
    current, rocks etc.  It could have been very dangerous in differnt
    places.
    
    We noticed that though the fog was thick, it was also very low and we
    could clearly see the moon to help us keep our bearings, so we
    carefully crept across the river.  As we moved into the wind, the fog
    got thinner and thinner.
    
    Mark
    

re                      <<< Note 1097.0 by SALEM::GILMAN >>>
>                                    -< FOG >-

    
>    This string is to discuss fog and your experiences with it and
>    solutions for coping with it.

	I try to avoid it whenever possible, however it is sometimes
worth going out in fog just because the chance of other boats being
there is less.

    
>    Buoys are an excellent reference if you can FIND them.


	right;  if I can find the gates I can usually figure out where
# 1 is likely to be, from there I know that if I take a sharp turn to
port then #2 will soon hove (heave ?) into view and if I can get so I
pass it a few feet to starboard....    another sharp turn, this time
to starboard... ah, there's # 3....   and so on. 


	Reg

I have been caught a few times and it's never fun.  Each time you have more
confidence in your instruments.  You are seldom where your mind tells you.

Once I was somewhere between the Isles of Shoals and Boars head trolling for
blues in thick haze (about 1/2 mile).  When heading for home Newburyport, I
recalled the LORAN numbers for the Mouth of the merrimack.  However, the
LORAN told me to head in another direction.  I had recalled the wrong waypoint
and was heading to Portsmouth.  I thought the LORAN was down and used the
compass, when I finally figured out what I had done I could see Hampton Beach and
was headed in the correct direction.

It is very easy to get disoriented in the fog and reduced visibility.  Remain 
calm and trust your compass and loran.  If you're lucky you will come across 
someone with radar and can follow them in.

Gordon

    By using compass and accurate charts and a stopwatch one can do a
    credible job navigating in fog.  But.... the currents, and wind can
    throw quite a curve into your calculations.  With a small open boat
    with no chart table its quite a trick to keep track of compass heading,
    time run at speed, AND reference the chart accurately.  Thats why I
    didn't try it last week.
    
    I have been out in fog navigating via stopwatch, compass, and chart
    before and I found that trusting the instruments is a mind game... a
    tough mind game too, your instincts tell you one thing and the
    instruments another.  Visual references if you have ANY tend to be
    almost as disorienting as no visual aids because often the 'aid' 
    (island, or whatever) is out of perspective.  Sounds are tricky too.
    
    Jeff

    I noticed that folks immediatly homed in on trying to find there way
    in fog. The real danger in fog is not of getting lost but one
    of avoiding collision. With a loran and compass your can find your
    way most anywhere with 100ft of visability. Radar lets you
    stay out of the way of other bozo's going way to fast for the
    conditions or way to big to notice you or change their direction.
    
    Having radar, loran and compass all which I have learned to trust
    to within there limitations I can run 20knots in 100ft visabity in
    the dark and feel comforatble. Under calm conditions I know my radar
    will show me most boats within a 1 mile of me and even a small tin
    boat within a 1/2 mile. I can also see lobster pots within a 1/4
    mile.
    
    Bruce

    re 1097.5
    (20 knots in 100 foot visibility)
    
    20 knots is 33 feet per second.
    
    Every book I have read on fog and every course I have taken (including
    USPS boating course) says that you need to be able to stop in half the 
    distance that you can see.
    
    Can you stop in 50' when you are doing 33 feet per second?
    I think you will find that by the time you think you see soemthing,
    decide what it is and react, your 50 feet will be gone.
    
    I have successfully negotiated 10 miles of Casco Bay
    (from Cape Elizabeth to Orr's Island) in 100' visibility
    using dead reckoning (calibrated compass), with loran and depthsounder
    for backup in calm weather, but it was at 5 knots and not 20.
    
    Bill
    

re .5:

>>> ..... I can run 20knots in 100ft visabity in the dark and feel comforatble. 

Maybe ***YOU*** feel comfortable about doing so, but ***I*** don't feel
comfortable about you doing so. With all due respect, I think doing so
is reckless in the extreme, foolish, stupid, ill-advised, and will all
too likely result in a serious accident. It is also in clear violation
of Colregs. As holder of a Coast Guard license, you really ought to know
better and do differently. Should you ever have an accident, you won't
have any defense at all, either civil or criminal. I wouldn't hesitate
to report any boat being operated like this to the Coast Guard. 

Alan 

    re: .7
    
    I'll bet Bruce is talking about being on the open water. I can
    understand the usefulness of 20 knots out in the open water, and I can
    testify to the accuracy of the loran/radar combination in <20-feet of
    visibility.
    
    I'll also bet Bruce is one *very* careful boat captain when inshore in
    the fog.
    
    Been there, seen that, and fully respect a boat pilot who knows how to
    handle the equipment.
    
    John H-C

    So far you guys are all talking about dealing with fog WITH THE HELP OF
    LORAN and sometimes RADAR.
    
    Any comments about dealing effectively with fog with JUST a compass and
    charts?  All I had last week was a compass and chart (but with no chart
    table), i.e. no place to spread the chart out and REALLY use it right.
    
    I choose to stay in and not go out in the fog. It made me feel as if I
    should have pushed my personal limits a bit and learned to deal with
    the fog by going out in it with just my compass and chart.  But I
    figured if I called it wrong you could have wound up reading about me
    in the papers under 'boating accident', so I didn't do it.
    
    20 knots in the fog:  WOW!  How about the occasional log or other
    flotsam you normally would spot visually but is too low in the water
    for RADAR to pick up?  All it would take would be one piece of timber
    to do you in.  Lobster buoys... your RADAR sees them?  I am impressed,
    but does it see ALL of them, and at 20 knots?  Ok, so your running
    offshore away from buoys but the logs are still out there.  I think
    if you keep that speed up its not a case of whether you will hit
    something but when.
    
    Jeff
    

I don't go sailing in the fog by choice, but I've had to do rather a lot 
of involuntary piloting in quite dense fog -- one of the "joys" of 
Maine.

Getting around in the fog isn't difficult in conditions of not much wind 
and sea, but it is certainly an activity with much anxiety. I'm far more
fearful of being hit by another boat than I am of running into a ledge.
There are far too many people out there going much too fast. 

Anyway, with a calibrated compass (ie, the compass deviation is known to
a degree or so), a depthsounder, a calibrated log (or a stopwatch and a
knotmeter), charts, and a loran if available one can cope quite nicely.
Going very slowly (in my case less than 5 knots) adds greatly to safety
and provides more time to check the chart and instruments. 

I preplot all the courses I expect to need and enter bouy coordinates in 
my loran. The plethora of bouys is very nice -- tax dollars at work.
I prefer whistle/gong/bell bouys since my engine is quiet enough (if I'm 
not sailing) that I can hear them. The loran cross-track function can be 
used to detect currents. Bottom depth contours can be used to great advantage 
to check position. The log gives distance run (mine reads to 0.01 mile) and 
allows speed changes without having to do a lot of arithmetic that a 
stop watch and knotmeter would require. 

In many places the bottom depth contours are continuous and you can 
simply follow them into shelter or to whereever your going. You should 
stay well away from dangers such as isolated ledges even if it means a 
longer distance to travel. You can't depend on seeing them in dense fog 
and the bottom often rises too abruptly for a depthsounder to give 
enough warning. 

It is difficult (for me anyway) to judge distances in fog and objects 
that look far away often are in fact dangerously close -- another reason 
for going slowly. If you're going from bouy to bouy go close enough to 
the bouy to be sure it is the one you think it is. 

Practice in clear weather is also a good idea. So far in 16 years I've 
only hit a ledge once (in clear weather many years ago) but I always
keep in mind that only one mistake can be disastrous. 

Alan

    Jeff,
    
    Yes, you could safely go out and play in the fog with just a compass
    and a chart, and extend your horizons, providing the following 
    were ALL true:
    
    o	You have an accurate compass that you have calibrated on
    	many points of sail.
    
    o	You have good chart skills, and can deal with magnetic
    	bearings and time-speed-distance probelms ("60 D Street")
    
    o	You have someone else along. In my case it was a 14 year old
    	son, who was paying good attention and was holding a compass
    	course well. You can't (especially as a novice) navigate with
    	your face in a chart and steer a compass course at the same time
    
    o	The weather is good. No big wind, waves etc.
    
    o	You proceed carefully. Start by going out 1/4 mile and finding
    	your way back. Or maybe 1/8th of a mile 
    
    o	You pay attention to current and make at least some minor
    	seat of the pants adjustment for what the lobster bouys are
    	telling you.
    
    Go for it - carefully.
    
    Bill
    
    
    o	You study the hell out of the chart beforehand.

    Alan... your talking about LORAN again.  I was interested in the
    comment cross drift function, it imples that LORAN is capable of
    detecting sideways drift accross your intended course... that sounds
    VERY useful to me when your dealing with unknown cross currents.  You
    can do all the dead reconing you want with stop watches, charts, and
    corrected compasses.... throw in a cross current and wham your on the
    rocks.
    
    Bill... all good points about your list of must haves to safely
    navigate in the fog.  I was missing a reliable SECOND person to let
    me concentrate on either maintaining an accurate compass course or
    the chart.  To do BOTH at the same time accurately would try an
    experienced fog navigator I suspect.
    
    I did have one opportunity to navigate in fog as you described and I
    took advantage of it a few years ago.  But reliable fog navigation
    requires practice..... lots of it.
    
    I think that knowing ones' (and ones' boats) limits is as important a
    part of good seamanship as anything else one can name.  I felt
    'chicken' to not have gone out in the fog last week. But in hindsite
    I see that I made the wise choice given my lack of a navigation partner
    electronic aids (I have compass and depthsounder only) and more
    experience on my part.  So I guess I DID practice good seamanship..
    by staying ASHORE in the fog.
    
    Jeff

Yes, lorans do give cross-track error (mine to 0.01 nm), so that it 
doesn't take long to detect a steering error or a current at an angle to 
your course. You can also get an indication of currents by watching the 
water flow around lobster pot bouys. If the loran says you're heading to 
right of your course and the wake around the pot bouy says the current 
is coming from the right, then something is amiss. Like perhaps your 
compass is off. As always, the usual caution: loran is an aid to 
navigation and like any other may mislead you. 

One of the advantages of going very slowly is that you do have time to 
look at the chart even while steering. I once (of necessity) 
singlehanded my 32' boat into the north side of Richmond Is Harbor off
Cape Elizabeth and anchored right where I wanted to be (I found after 
the fog thinned to 1/4 mi visibility the next day) using only compass 
and depthsounder in fog with about 100' visibility. I never saw the
ledges and land. Not fun. One advantage that I had was that heading 
offshore for the night was an option, which I would have taken had it 
been other than near calm. 

Another strategy that should not be overlooked is that you can always 
(often/sometimes) anchor, assuming you have a good anchor and a long
rode (in Maine meaning at least 300'). If you do anchor, continue to
keep a lookout with foghorn at the ready and have a plan in mind for
what to do should you have to move. 

Alan

    I should explain further.  I have a 17' outboard.... not a 25 footer
    with sleeping accomodatons.  If the chips were down I could of course
    'heave to' or anchor but it would be an emergency action rather than
    a routine manuver as in a larger boat.
    
    Yup, I know about buoys being an aid to navigation by observing water
    flow around them.
    
    Incidentally I grew up near Cape Elizabeth... I know the area well.
    
    Jeff
    

    A couple of further thoughts about LORAN.
    
    While motoring, my LORAN heading agrees with my carefully zeroed
    compass to as close as I can read the compass. (This is an Apelco
    6300, $259 variety). This is why I trust my compass. While under sail, 
    (oops - I said that word) the readings often vary by 10-15 degrees,
    showing how much I am slipping sideways thru the water.
    
    The cross track error from my LORAN is also good to .01 mile
    (with a little wiggle in value normally occurring). If I'm under sail,
    the cross track error is caused by both leeway and from current, but
    if I am motoring, the error is just the current. Anytime I have
    course/speed mode selected, it is also displaying cross track error
    form whereever I was when I selected the current waypoint to the actual
    waypoint. 
    
    The run up to Orr's I from Cape Elizabeth was made a lot easier by the
    string of buoys every 1-2 miles up West Cod Ledge. They all appeared
    out of the fog right on my bow, and this was my first time making
    passage in the fog.
    
    I'll second what Alan said about visual distortion. On at least 2 
    occasions, I said to my son "There's another sailboat just becoming
    visible in the fog", and both times he informed (correctly) that it
    was a lobster buoy. If you don't think you can confuse something 
    1 foot high (quite close) with something 30 feet high further away,
    you haven't been in real fog.
    
    It was very confidence inspiring to make our destination precisely,
    but it was after a lot of practice in good weather with the loran,
    after a lot of book learnin and under calm weather conditions.
    It was also my very first time passagemaking up the Maine coast in
    a 19' sailboat. We had sailed Harpswell Sound the previous 2 years
    by trailering the boat up, but my first trip from West Cod Ledge
    to Orr's was in serious fog. I had a sailboat twice my size follow
    me to Mackeral Cove, because he wasn't prepared to use and trust
    his LORAN.
    
    Bill
    
    (We had no fog this year Jul 10-15 on West Penobscot Bay, whe we had
    trailered to. Too long a run to sail from Rye Harbor, especially with
    a "fair-weather crew" (my wife))
    
    

    The visual distortion is unbelievable.  One looses perspective.  I can
    easily believe you mistook a 1 foot high lobster buoy for another boat.
    
    I went out to Isle au Haut on Penobscot Bay last week on a commercial
    pasenger vessel.  I was able to observe the skipper at the helm with
    his RADAR and instruments as we proceeded through the pea soup fog.
    
    Even though he had RADAR which showed no boats in our vicinity I saw
    the skipper flinch and duck and spin the wheel 'violently' on two
    occasions when he THOUGHT he saw other boats in the fog which wern't
    really there.  This was an experienced professional who had run this 
    boat all his life and HE was spooked by 'objects' in the fog.
    
    He was running by stopwatch and compass heading in addition to RADAR.
    
    Jeff

Here's an interesting fog story, as told to me by my mother just the
other day.   

She had the week off, as well as her sister, my aunt, and both being widows,
they decided to do something different for a couple of days.  they decided
to go to Martha's Vinyard.  My mother is nervous about boats because it seems
like something always happens when she's on one!   My aunt, who had done this 
trip before, said it's a short ride and yes you can see land pretty much all
the way.

The trip from Hyannis to the Vinyard was problem-free.  Nice day, calm seas,
and they had a nice stay.   The way back started out good too.  Lots of people,
packed to the brim, and decent weather.

About 1/2 way there fog started rolling in.   It got to be *dense* fog, and
people were a little nervous.  The captain was sounding the fog horn regularly,
and said over the pa that noone should worry, he can handle this no problem.
Then the captain is observed on the deck of the boat, looking manually ahead 
and around him.  People wondered why he wasn't at the helm.

Next thing you know, people start shouting there's a boat out there!  We're
gonna crash!!!   Some folks went downstairs and started handing out life
jackets.   

I'm not sure where the captain was, but the boat's motors suddenly shifted to
hard reverse and people fell over.

I asked my mother how close were they to this boat (sometimes she exaggerates).
She responded "4 feet".  (!!!)  It was a larger ferry, larger than the one 
they were on, the kind that ferries cars as well.  

I couldn't believe what she was telling me.  I asked well, did anyone complain
or report something to the coast guard ?  My mother said all she wanted to do
was get the hell home, shaking, and have a stiff drink.

Does this story sound a bit unusual ?   2 ferries filled with people almost
collide in the middle of Hyannis and the Vineyard, and nothing on the news,
like it's no big deal.

Seems to me that the boats were probably on auto-pilot/loran. At some point the
captain saw that another boat was coming close on the radar.  Too close.  So 
that's why the captain was seen on the deck looking out over the bow, to see
how close there actually were.  

They avoided a collision and a potentially disasterous situation, and then 
everyone went home. 

Just in a days work ?

Ken

    I take the ferry from either Portland,Bar Harbor Maine or St Johns New
    Brunswick...when the fog bank rolls in on either of these instramented
    boats you will observe two things(sure many other things are happening
    as well):
    
       Two look outs are posted in the bow, also look outs port and
    startboard with periodic fog horn blast.
    
       The ship slows down quite a bit.
    And that with relatively little traffic once out of either harbor....
    
    BB 

    It strikes me as unusual that TWO passenger vessels had not been able
    to spot and avoid one another via RADAR.  The chances of both vessels
    having RADAR failures at the same time is remote.  The Capt' was acting
    as if the RADAR was down by going out and deck and trying to visually
    sight other vessels.
    
    BUT... modern vessels still collide in the fog modern instruments not
    withstanding so I am not that suprised that there was a close call.
    
    Thats what Alan was saying.... high speed in the fog is simply
    dangerous no matter whether one has RADAR and LORAN or not.  The larger
    the vessel the less the room for error because of the increased time
    required for the vessel to respond to helm and engine changes.
    
    Since they were two ferries which almost collided it makes sense that
    they were running in 'ferry lanes' perhaps the same route on opposite
    runs.... i.e. one West the other Eastbound?  That would make a collison
    more likely if they wre on the same run.
    
    But... nope... not suprised to hear it all.  Not in the papers?  There
    was no collision, no news in that!
    
    Jeff

    I feel a weak urge to defend my statements. First I only run at those
    speeds in open water, not in a harbor or traffic situation. In fact
    more often than not it is in the early AM when the only other traffic
    is other fisherman. I stated I trust and know how to use my radar
    to avoid collision and in these situations I can check that my radar
    is operating properly by observing known buoy echo's. If for even a
    moment I get dissoriented or question what I am seeing(or not) I cut back to
    bare steerage speed. I do have a lookout posted. 
    
    Logs and other partially submerge debris are always a hazard. They are
    near impossible to see in any sea over 2ft, or heading into the sun or
    on a moonless night. There is no real defense for this, I won't
    argue that it is not safer to go slower so if I did hit one of these
    damage would be minimized. But the relality is the risk must be
    similar to getting a blowout on the highway at 65MPH and I would be
    willing to bet I am more cautious about watching the water than
    are most drivers being prepared to do a panic stop when that tire
    blows.
    
    If boating did not have so many inherent risks it probably would not
    be any fun.
    
    Bruce   

See Note 1330.44 in the SAILING notesconference for a not completely happy 
boating in the fog story.