Conference vicki::boats

<    	I would be interested in comparing plans around both barrel and
<    	foam floatation.
    
FWIW  The cottage next to ours has/had a foam flotation dock that squeaked
constantly with the wave action AND the ducks would come around and peck at
the foam apparently eating the flecks the pieces.  The base of the foam now is
at least 6" back from where it was originally.  I don't know of any ill effects
on the ducks, but I'm sure it wasn't very nourishing...

Based on this experience, personally I'd avoid foam as an option unless you
were going to enclose it securely...

al

    Why not do both barrel AND foam, ie; fill the blue plastic barrels with
    foam, then seal the barrel.  Barrel protects foam from pecking, foam
    protects barrel from leaking and sinking.
    
    carl

re                       <<< Note 1063.2 by SALEM::LAYTON >>>
>                                 -< use both! >-

>    Why not do both barrel AND foam, ie; fill the blue plastic barrels with

	'cos there's no need to (-:

	If the barrels are properly plugged they'll stay water tight - 
if they're not then filling them with foam will only produce sodden 
foam (though the ducks won't get to it).  We put a raft in at Willoughby 
in  '87, I think its been left in the ice at least two winters and it
still doesn't leak.  We positioned the barrels so that the bung holes 
were at the lowest point  a) if there is any slight leak it will be 
resisted by the "diving bell effect"  b) any water found at the end of 
a season could be drained from the lowest point.  If you have any 
doubt about the bungs I suppose you could use caulk or teflon pipe 
thread tape - on the basis that our drums were food grade juice 
containers we assumed that they would seal air tight /water tight.

>    carl

	Reg

    
    
    	Thanks for the advise and suggestions!
    
    	Over the years we have had two floating piers ... one built in
    	around 1935 (just a tad before I came along) which was made of
    	wood and used 50 gal steel drums for floatation.  That one gave
    	up the ghost around 1970 or so.  We replaced it with the same 
    	design and that lasted until last summer when "it fell apart"
    	due to rot.  Along the way I switched from steel drums to 
    	juice drums.  There is no particular problem with this design
    	except others around the lake have had very good luck with 
    	foam supported piers and they have been able to leave them in the
    	lake over the winter with no damage as long as the pier is 
    	detached from land and anchored. I like the idea of minimizing
    	work!
    
    	I am reasonably clever with hammer and saw, but not clever enough
    	to design a wooden structure "in my head", hence the reason for
    	requesting plans.  In searching around, I see plenty of plans for
    	decks and such, but nothing on piers.  
    
    	Sooooo.......any 'elp other there on locating plans?  If push comes
    	to shove I guess I can just go copy what exists on our lake!
    
    	Once again, TIA, 
    
    	George
    	

re                       <<< Note 1063.4 by PSDVAX::HITZ >>>
>                                -< ...more.... >-
    
>    	Sooooo.......any 'elp other there on locating plans?  If push comes
>    	to shove I guess I can just go copy what exists on our lake!

	Sorry, I wasn't thinking of "piers", more of rafts.

	I have seen some glossy brochures for docks, piers and rafts at
marinas.  They want to sell all kinds of fancy cast aluminium brackets 
and braces and connectors and such, there are usually at least a few 
sample layouts showing how you can use what they're trying to sell (-:

	I think I would make sure of a couple of things if I was doing 
a project like this;

	a)	4ft is probably the minimum comfortable width for a 
		fixed dock, you may need more for a floating dock or
		pier, especially if there is likely to be much wave
		action.  If there isn't going to be much wave action I 
		would be more inclined to opt for a fixed installation.

	b)	I would build the frame and keep it separate from the 
		decking, i.e. the decking itself would be drop in
		panels that would be small enough and light enough for
		one person to handle.  Difficult to describe and 
		almost impossible to draw on an ascii terminal...
		What I'm trying to say is don't just nail the decking 
		to the edges of the side rails.  Instead space the
		side rails out another 2 times their thickness, add
		ledger strips approx 1 1/4 inches down from the top
		edge of the side rail (if the thickness of the decking
		material is 5/4) and build the decking as short
		panels, say 3ft., that can just be dropped in.  This 
		way you get sections that are lighter and easier to
		move or replace if selective rot hits, there is also a
		lot less end grain (splintering) where the boat folks
		fend off. 

	Reg
    	

<		side rails out another 2 times their thickness, add
<		ledger strips approx 1 1/4 inches down from the top
<		edge of the side rail (if the thickness of the decking
<		material is 5/4) and build the decking as short
<		panels, say 3ft., that can just be dropped in.  This 

FYI

    5/4 decking actually measures 1" thick the other 1/4 winds up on the
floor of the planer shop during finishing...  If you want the decking to
be flush with the frame the offset should be 1" not 1 1/4"...

Al

    I pass by one or two places that sell dock and parts for the same in
    the course of a weekend up at Winni.  If I go by one this weekend I'll
    stop in and see if they have any plans.  Of course, with this being
    motorcycle week(end) up there I'm not sure how much I'll want to
    use my car once I get there :>)
    
    Tom

    I kept my boat at a floating T-shaped dock last summer.  The lake goes
    up and down a foot everytime it rains so the owner had to keep the unit
    flexible.  It's at least 40 feet long and then ends in a 20 foot end
    piece.  It's made from juice barrels.  The unique thing that the guy
    did to keep it from moving side to side was to place white PVC piping
    (maybe 2" diam.) in about 8 or so places around the dock.  He had a
    bunch of 6-10' long iron pipes (1") that we placed thru the PVC piping
    and drove into the lake bottom with a sledge hammer leaving about a
    foot showing above the top of the PVC pipe.  We did this in the late
    spring when the lake was at it's highest level.  Capped the pipes off
    with old tennis balls so nobody would get hurt.  The dock was free to
    ride up or down according to lake height and wave action without any
    stress to the concrete platform on the shore that it was connected to.
    At the end of the summer, he hooks a pipe wrench onto the pipes and
    pulls them out while spinning the wrench.
    
    One other thing.  I second any design that allows for some amount of
    dis-assembly prior to installation or removal.  This guy's dock was made
    of 10' sections.  They were HEAVY !  He had a good size Ford 4WD
    tractor with a front end loader that he could use to lower them into
    the water where they could then be floated together.  I'm glad I didn't
    have to carry them in!
    Wayne

    See notes 271 and 562 for more info on dock construction.
    
    

    Folks,
    
     Down here inthe Carolinas, our lakes go up and down 8'  or more a
    year, so most people have a fixed pier, a ramp, then a float. The float
    is typically 2x8 or 2x10 framing using metal angle iron as braces in
    the corners.
    
     There are 3 types of floation used around here:
    
     - plain old white styrofoam, paint it with latex paint first to
    	protect it and use screen from the float frame down to keep the 
    	ducks away
    
     - blue styrofoam, more dense than the white, for some reason the ducks
    	don't like it as much. It supports more weight per volume but costs
    	more.
    
     - a black plastic cube that looks like a cartop carrier that is filled
   	 with foam.
    
    Most of these things are attached with a board across the bottom and
    threaded rod through them up to the actual float piece. Overton's local
    store has the dock angle iron, hinges for the ramp, and connectors to
    attach to locating poles - their mail order catalog may have it also.
    
     Chuck 

    Back from Winni, great motorcycle show!!  Oh yes, the place is
    Lakes Region Docks, (603) 524-2000.  They are located in Winnisquam
    on the northbound side of Rt 3 just past the catholic church after
    you cross the bridge over Winnisquam.  They sell docking systems
    and parts..give them a call and see if they have plans as well
    
    Tom

    
    
    	Once again, thanks to all for replies on and off line.  
    
    	I have decided to go with juice barrels (which I have already), 
    	drop in decking (from the last installation) and make a new frame 
    	using steel corners.  Styrofoam sounded nice from the "leave it in
    	all winter" perspective, but the other problems seem more than
    	offsetting.  

    	BTW, I saw the annual migration of bikers returning from Loudon
    	on our way home from the Berkshires via the Mass Pike Sunday.
    	Quite a lot, they are.
    
    	George

    
    re: George
    
    	Just browsing thru Overton's and noticed that they offer
    Follansbee VHS tape on "Dock Building".. I'm sure it pushed
    the Follansbee dock products, but might have some good ideas.
    It's 15.95....
    
    Rick

    
    	Thanks for the tip!