Conference vicki::boats

    In my opinion, it should be illegal to own a marina without a sewage
    pumping station. I'm in Narragansett Bay, and I've only been able to
    find two pumping stations, both of which are usually broken down. And
    it costs me a fortune to cruise to them.
    
    Is there any move to encourage owners to provide this vital service? I
    would have thought the environmentalists would realise that the lack of
    such a service is the prime reason for illegal sewage dumping!!
    
    Ray

    My wife has the porta potty problem solved.  She simply refuses to 
    empty it and waits until I HAVE to deal with it.  If you can't deal
    with the problem the way my wife has, and YOUR the selected mate to
    take care of this task then an upgrade to your head seems appropriate.
    
    "Anything" can be done within the laws of physics.  Marine catalogs list
    pourable holding tanks which can be fit into almost any conceivable
    below deck/sole between hull space.  They also list various capacity
    size/shape holding tanks if you have an area you can put the tank in.
    Also, you can buy the macererator.  You don't mention how handy you
    are and what your resources are for installing this system.  Also,
    I don't think you said how BIG your boat is.  Of course that is a
    critical issue regarding usable space for the sewage system.  In
    my 17 footer finding the space for a sewage macererator/holding tank
    is out of the question.  The porta potty and my wife's solution for
    that is the only way to go in my case.
    
    Jeff

    I have a fair amount of room to install through-hull connector and a
    macerator/pump. Also, I'm handy enough, I think, to drill a hole into
    the existing port-potty holding tank and fit a pipe to suck the goo up.
    
    But I have not been able to find such a pump or system at US Boat or
    other marine store that I've visited....any suggestions?
    
    Also, this is a "recirculation" type head, into which one pours the
    appropriate sterilization/perfume chemicals. Is it a good idea to do
    this modification??
    
    Perhaps someone could post a not explaining how macerators work...
    
    Ray

    Since the original noter asked HOW to do it, I will answer. This answer
    may or may not conform to local laws. You can find a detail drawing of
    a typical head and holding tank installation in the Boat/US catalog. In
    the 1991 catalog, it was on page 336. Your installation will vary
    depending on what options you want to implement and how "legal" you
    want to be. You can have a system which is legal to own but not to use
    in certain modes. My system is set up as follows:
    
    One intake thru-hull for water intake to head. (You have a
    recirculating toilet so you don't need this.)
    
    The output of the head goes to a Y- valve - one path directly overboard
    as in the old days or when you are outside the 3 mile limit, one path
    to a holding tank.
    
    The output of the holding tank also has two outlets - one thru a
    macerator pump directly overboard and one to a deck plate for pump-out.
    
    In your case, you say you want to simply take a standard hose-barb
    plastic thru-hull fitting, cut a hole into your tank and mount the
    thru-hull. Then run hose (1and a quarter inch sewage hose, the white
    stuff) to a macerator, then to a thru hull for discharge. This would be
    legal to have only if the thru hull was locked at all times (Federal
    law says that it must be padlocked or the handle removed). This is not
    legal to use unless you are beyond the 3 mile limit. Boat US carries
    the PAR macerator pump which is very popular. A manual gusher pump will
    also work well. 
    
    You may need a vented loop if your head outlet is below waterline.
    
    Be careful and read the federal regs carefully. The fine is big time if
    caught with an illegal set up.

    Maryland did their ban year  ago only to realize several years later
    that there were *no* marinas on the Chesapeak with holding tanks. As I
    understand things now, there is no enforcement of overboard discharge
    much less the issue of a Y valve (for off-shore).
    
    So, I'm getting back into boating after 5 yrs out of it with a used
    craft ('78) that has the porta option. I'm not keen myself on this
    either...the dumping.
    
    As I get back in things, I'll be more current as to the Annapolis, MD
    view. Will be happy to share that then.

    I changed a direct overboard discharge in a 26ft boat.  The set up is
    simple.  Output of toilet goes directly to 15 gal holding tank.  The
    output of the holding tank goes to a "Tee" connection.  one of the sides
    of the tee go to the deck pumpout.  The other goes to a inline valve then
    to to the maserator.   To pump overboard open valve and turn on the
    maserator.  To use a dock side pumpout just close the inline valve
    and pump out through the deck fitting.  So far pump out stations zero. 
    Three mile fishing trips one thousand.  The holding tank is fitted with 
    a light to tell when it is full. 
                              
    
                 Vent    Deck pumpout fitting
                   |
                   |          |
                   |          |
                   |          |
                   |          |
    Toilet ----- Tank --------|------ Valve ----- Maserator -----Throughhull
                             Tee
    
    
    Other info.  Use the RIGHT type of hose and double clamp all the
    connections.  You do not want a leak.  The right type of hose is
    expensive and very hard to work with.  But there is no odors.
    Brace the tank carefully. 
    
    
    Ken C
    

>    stuff) to a macerator, then to a thru hull for discharge. This would be
>    legal to have only if the thru hull was locked at all times (Federal
>    law says that it must be padlocked or the handle removed). This is not
>    legal to use unless you are beyond the 3 mile limit. Boat US carries
>    the PAR macerator pump which is very popular. A manual gusher pump will
>    also work well. 
>    
>    You may need a vented loop if your head outlet is below waterline.
>    
>    Be careful and read the federal regs carefully. The fine is big time if
>    caught with an illegal set up.
>


RE.6

	Where can we get a copy of the Fedral Regs regarding this?

    You can get a copy of the regulations from your local Coast Guard
    office or from a store that specializes in marine sanitation.
    
    Here in Puget Sound, the CGs are not running around checking heads but
    they will check if you are boarded for some other reason. I have been
    told of some big fines, like $5000. for the CG finding the Y-valve in
    the open position.

The SAILING notesfile (UNIFIX::) has had some good discussions on 
choosing, installing and maintaining heads.  Check note 3.x for relevant
notes listed under keywords -- unfortunately there's not a "MARINE HEADS"
keyword. 

Didn't the Feds recently pass an omnibus discharge law which applies to 
*all* vessels, from canoes to supertankers?   I believe new boats above a 
certain size or fitted with a head are required to display a sign listing
discharge limits.  Within three miles (I think), it's now illegal to
discharge *any*thing, including macerated human waste. 

It goes on to mention various degradable substances with minimum offshore 
distances, and banning discharge of plastics anywhere at anytime.  You can 
probably see one of these signs at any marine chandlery (Bliss, Boat US, 
etc).

Anyone have the specific details?

BTW, many older boats have overboard systems, and just use them
discreetly.  Flushing in any harbor probably is a polite and sensible
no-no, but the impact in open tides is less, and many owners rationalize
surreptitious discharge over the signficant expense and hassle of meeting
the letter of the law 100% of the time. 

John.

    The new fed regs cover discharge of trash and garbage. That is the onme
    where you need a placard and trash disposal plan, etc. Heads are
    covered by the original regs made back in the 70s. If you have an older
    boat, with a direct discharge head, you are illegal. All boats where
    supposed to be retrofitted by 1980 something. If you have a holding
    tank system that has the option of pumping overboard, that option must
    be secured (locked or some other means) in all no discharge zones.
    There are some legal discharge treatment systems like Lectrasan that
    meet Fed rules but don't meet some local no discharge regs.

    There are some new regs -- check back issues of Boat US Seaworthy I
    recall seeing a whole discussiong of them.     The 'new' dumping
    sticker (for which you can be fined up to $1000 for not displaying)
    is available at Boat US (I think its about a buck) and lists various
    plastics, papers etc which CANNOT be dumped overboard at any time.
    Every boat is supposed to have that and the oil discharge sticker.
    CG won't stop you for it, but *if* you get boarded.....better have it. 
    Reading the sticker, it sound like you can't even throw bread overboard
    to the gulls......
    
    Don't forget your CG "user fee" stickers...they've been stopping boats
    without them.  (then they look for the aforementioned...)

    Re the mandatory placards mentioned in the previous reply for waste
    and oil. 
    
    I believe they are only mandatory for boats above a certain size. I
    don't believe my 19' boat requires either.
    
    Bill
    

    Re: previous note.  I'd doublecheck that, according to Seaworthy, boats
    16 ft and up have to have the oil discharge sticker...I believe it's
    the same for the list of goodies one can't throw overboard.....I
    wouldn't want to see anyone get fined for it...
    

    O.K. - you got me nervous. According to the West Marine Catalog, the
    Waste discharge placard is required on all boats over 26'
    and  the Oil discharge placard is required on al boats over 26' with
    enclosed engine compartments.
    
    If anyone has any other published information, please post it here.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bill