Conference vicki::boats

    
    Jack,
    
    I'll reply to your question in 943.12 here.
    
    When I bought the Angler four years ago it was my first boat.  I knew
    I'd be using it in salt water so I wanted something big enough as a
    start.  I had no previous experience with boats before this and believe
    me I have learned a lot.
    
    I like this boat very much, it is a good size for the kind of fishing I
    have been doing.  It seemed underpowered but I really didn't know
    better until I replaced the engine.  It had a 115 merc and I replaced
    it with a 150 Mariner.  It is a different boat with the larger engine
    and I don't believe that I burn much extra gas with the larger engine.
    
    Things I wish I had in a boat this size:
    
    Don't under power - it's better to have it when you need it. 
    Portsmouth inlet is a lot like the Merrimack, it gets pretty nasty
    sometimes, when the waves stand up in front of you you want the power
    to climb them.
    
    I like the walkaround design - it's easy to dock, plenty of room for
    4-5 fishing, good access to anchor, etc.  The cuddy cabin provides a
    place to store equipment, get your passengers out of the weather.
    
    I wish the design was one of the newer WA designs.  The helm area is
    more protected from spray on the newer designs. 
    
    I would like a bimini top, either hard or soft.  it will keep the rain
    and sun off of you.
    
    I would like the security of a full transom and a more flared bow. 
    I have dug mine in 3 times, believe me its not fun taking one over the
    bow.  This was due to inexperience but I have watch it in the inlets.
    
    I would like a kicker engine for trolling and insurance.
    
    I would go with a deep v or deep modified v hull for a smoother ride.
    
    More creature conforts - head, washdown, sink, shower, etc.
    
    In short, I like the boat; but would like something larger.
    
    To trailer or not:
    I have always kept the boat in a slip.  I do not have a vechicle which
    will tow the boat and I figure that a slip is cheaper than towing.  TO
    tow a boat this size, one should have a four wheel drive with a six
    cylinder atleast.  My slip cost me $1200 last year, I couldn't buy a
    truck for that.  Another advantage, I cal leave work at 5:00 and be on
    the water at 5:30.  You will get more use out of the boat if you don't
    have to launch it everytime.  The only good ramp in Newburyport costs
    $10 on weekends.  The only drawback of a slip is you have to buy fuel
    on the river at much higher costs $1.50+ last year.
    
    Here's my experience
    
    Gordon

I had a 17' Boston Whaler Montauk that I used in both fresh and salt
water for four years. I loved the open-ness of it, but also wanted some
shelter from the wind and spray on the way home from the fishing grounds.
Yes, I took it 15 to 20 miles out.

We looked at cuddies, lobster boats, walkarounds, and center consoles.
I didn't have to test drive a lobster boat design because I fished for
lobsters for about six months from a Novi. But, we took cuddies,
walkarounds, and one big (24') center console out for trial runs. 

I thought I really wanted a walkaround. The 25' Hydrasports was nice, but
we found out that walkarounds in that size have more superstructure (top
hamper?) and thus more sail area, so there's more windage at rest or when
slow trolling. I didn't like that. Gradys were the same, but didn't ride
as well as the Hydrasports in a chop.

We knew we wanted to trailer, for many reasons. In my mind, that ruled
out anything but outboards. So I wanted twins. Big bucks, lots of weight
(850 to 1100 pounds) hanging on the transom... So I said, okay, we'll go
with a big single plus a kicker. Several dealers, and then the
Hydrasports factory, told me I'd need a 50 to 60 hp for a kicker. 

Well, we bought the 24' hydrasports cuddy. 47� deadrise forward, tapering
to 22� at the stern. Low profile, yet twin vee-bunks and a porta-potti in
the cuddy, with a lot of fishing space in the cockpit. Three adults fish
comfortably, four good friends fish happily. 

I bought the biggest Johnson there was in 84, the 235, and have never
regretted it. Never got around to buying a kicker. The only serious
trolling we do is for bluefish, and we've trolled for hours with no
problems. We confidently run out to Jeffreys Ledge or Stellwagen from
Hampton Harbor, and Block Island from Tiverton or Westport. Cuttyhunk is
no problem, as is Coxes Ledge. 

The convertible top stays up about 90% of the time; clear side curtains
are zipped on for early spring and late fall codfishing, and the rear
canvas goes on for overnighters.

We also launch her in Winnipesaukee and Wentworth in NH, and have
been in Pawtuckaway numerous times. My shallow-water gunkholing is
challenging, when we fish for largemouth and smallmouth bass.
Waterskiiing is true comfort, with lots of space for skis etc, and a
place to change right on the boat. 

We've used the boat for day-long lake picnics with two families aboard,
and we've spent cozy weekends aboard (in salt water). With two in the
cuddy and all the canvas up two more can sleep in the cockpit. Four
people put a lot of pressure on a porta-potti, though, for a three day
trip. That's pushing the envelope.

We towed it for the first few years with a full-sized Bronco with a 302
V8. That was really too little horse for that much wagon. Now we have a
full-sized Bronco with a 351 V8, and there's no problem at all. I did
have to be towed up one steep sand-and-seashell beach in RI, but I
shouldn't have been there to start with. No traction on that stuff; I
should have used a ramp, but I was being stubborn.

If I could time-travel back to the fall of 83... I'd buy the same boat,
same engine.

Art

    The upper end of this range (24') gets pretty marginal for trailering.
    As stated in .1, you need a substantial towing capacity, and if the
    beam goes over 8.5 ft, you can't legally trailer it at all (well,
    unless you don't mind having one of those "overwidth vehicle ahead"
    chase cars accompany all your trips  :-).
    
    My boat is 20' * 8' @ 2300 lbs (i.e, not that big) and the two times a
    year I trailer it (launch in the Spring, haul in the Fall) are
    hypertension days.  The ramp I use is surrounded with hazards and my
    "crew" (wife and two small kids) are of limited use.   If I had a
    classier ramp and could always count on help I would have a different
    attitude toward trailering.  Without one or preferably both of the
    above I would never consider trailering something at the high end of
    your range (24').

    Jack,
    	I own a 1987 22' Aquasport Walkaround. I had been looking primarily
    at center consoles but changed when I figured I needed the protection 
    of the cuddy. (I never regretted that decision.) What I was looking for 
    was a trailerable, deep V boat with lots of open cockpit. I was also
    partial to boats which used composite material below the waterline
    vs wood for stringers.      
    	The Aquasport hull is excellent; its a true deep V, meaning it
    carries its 19 deg deadrise all the way forward. The bow is fairly 
    full which makes it a bit wet but it also keeps your nose out of the 
    suds. It uses foam filled structural, fiberglas tubes in place of the 
    conventional stringer system and these tubes and the deck are bonded 
    together. This results in an extremely strong hull without much weight.
    	The cuddy is fairly low. It doesn't give you much in the line of
    space or creature comfort but it meets my need of tackle storage and a 
    place to get out of the weather in a pinch. I have had three small kids 
    sleep in the cuddy while mother and I slept under the canvas on deck. 
    Not exactly a cruiser but you can "make do". 
    	It does have one design flaw, which I imagine has been corrected in
    later models. The boat can't carry much weight in the stern and because
    of the small cuddy, most stuff goes there. When you load it down with an 
    auxiliary motor, dual batteries, full live well, monsterous cooler and 
    tons of fishing gear the stern gets low enough so the deck can't drain
    properly. You have to try to shift the weight forward or endure wet
    feet. This is not a problem when underway, only when at rest.
    	The boat is a great fishing machine. I'd like to have more area for
    tackle storage but I suppose that's a limitation of a boat this size. 
    The cockpit is clear and the no skid surface is deep. That's important.
    	I guess I could go on for quite a while but I think I'll opt for a
    few more short replies about certain aspects of this class of boat
    versus a full length novel. 
    Regards,
    Paul                        

    re: .-1
    
    Paul,
    I have the same "wet feet" problem in myboat at rest.  When loaded the
    waves slap against the transom and come thru the drain holes into the
    cockpit.  I have been stuffing rags into the holes while drift
    fishing/or at anchor (have to remember to take out the rags before
    getting underway).  I am going to try and put rubber flappers this
    spring and see if it makes a difference.
    
    Gordon
    

    These replys sound familar.  Mine: A 1989 20' Grady w/ 150 hp Yamaha OB.
    I'm moored up the Parker River in Newbury MA.  I trailer twice a year.
    Put in and haul out. This procedure each Spring and Fall has become
    less hypertensive.  The boat is easily slid off and pulled on my COX
    3900G Easy Loader trailer.  The ramp is ~4.5 miles from home.  I've
    taken the family to Chicks Marina in Kenebunkport ME and, just as a 
    previous noter described, slept on a moving blanket under a tent fly on
    deck while kids slept in Cuddy.  Tight but there's always a compromise.  
    I take 8+ trips each year to overnight at the Isles Shoals.  Nice safe 
    protected harbor.  Tow your dinghy if you plan to go aboard the island. 
    A few activities aboard the island for everyone.  I do alot of fishing
    for stripers in the Parker River behind Plum Island and occasionally
    fish the face of the island at night.  Blue fishing is automatic when
    they're running and the occasional Cod trip to Stellwagon is included.
    Kinda spooky out dar in da fog....I do alot of diving off my boat but
    it gets pretty tight with 2 guys and all the gear.  Most often I raft
    up with a friend w/ a 35' Alura and we dive from his boat.  I night
    over off the backside of Misery Island and do some late night fishing.
    I sleep with the radio on and more than one time have been awakened
    to early by some guy who calls himself Capt. Codfish....&%!#@! He gets
    out early.
    
    /MArk
    

    
    I'm not familiar with the drain your talking about here,
    but if its typical of what i've seen in the past, i may
    have an idea.
    
    There is adevice which can be attached to the drain hole,
    its made of rubber, its round on one end to fit in the drain,
    and flat on the other. It only allows the water to flow out
    and not in.
    
    My inflatable has a drain hole, there's a rubber flapper on the
    outside of a plastic mesh that serves the same purpose,
    when water from the outside pushes against it, it seals.
    when underway the drain is above the water, pressure from
    the water inside opens it and drains.
    
    Hope this helps, I HATE WET FEET....
    
    JIm.

    Er..uh..With all the technical talk in the "Ideal Fishing Boat" topic
    I'm kinda suprised no one has called these 'drain holes' in the cockpit
    by their correct name...
    
    SCUPPERS : (skup'ers) n. A deck level opening in the side of a ship to
    	        allow water to run off.
    
    Now I'm not sure we refer to our boats as ships but I believe the most
    common ones we'd be apt to see have the rubber flap which prevents the
    water from coming into, and onto the deck.  A new improved or alternate
    version is called a Duck Bill Scupper in which the rubber over the hole
    is shaped like a duck bill protruding out towards the water.  These are
    most commonly seen in inflatable rafts.
    
    /MArk

    Does anyone have these scuppers on their boat.  I would be like to find
    out where they are sold and install them.  The only ones I have seen
    are on larger boats on the exhaust.
    
    Gordon
    

    Gordon,  I believe all the Grady Whites built in the past 10+ years
    have scuppers.  You probably could find them at Baert Marine in
    Seabrook NH. on Rt. 1. Also, any marine store that sells alot of boat
    building supplies will have them.  The Marine Exchange in Peabody Ma.
    (Rt. 1 South) comes to mind.  If they don't have them in stock, they'll
    open a catalog or two, offer you a choice depending who they buy from
    and order them for you.  Neat store if you've never been there.
    They are located ~1/2 mile from where I-95 merges w/ Rt. 1 on the right 
    side tucked in next to a billiard(sp?) parlor.
    
    /MArk
    

    	I've had my 22 footer for going on 5 years now and of course I've 
    had the "bigger and better" fantasies but I've found the 22 to be just
    big enough to keep me from doing something hazardous to my financial
    well being. The 22 is big enough to go out as far as my male body parts
    will let me go (35 nm so far). Its also expensive enough to run so I 
    shudder when I think of running anything burning more fuel. I can
    imagine owning a big boat but I can't see me spending much more than
    I already do for a days fishing. It just doesn't fit my frugal
    upbringing I guess.
    	Another option I have is trailering. You may state the pros and
    cons of trailering but its hard to dispute that the option to
    haul out the boat when you want is nice. I kept the boat on a mooring
    the first year and that has its advantages but I just didn't like the
    beating it was taking from the elements. Its also nice to have the boat
    in your back yard when you want to apply a little TLC. I sometimes rent 
    a slip for a weekend so I only have to launch once but its my choice. I 
    can also cover a lot of the coast for a relatively reasonable cost.
    	I'm constantly looking at bigger boats and could be talked into 
    one I'm sure but in the meantime I'll get another season out of the
    22.
    
    Paul 

    BTW, I also intended to add that the scuppers were a small but important
    consideration when I chose my boat.  I keep it on a mooring and the
    last thing I wanted to think about was how full she was getting after
    it rained.  I have enough fun pumping the water out of the dinghy.
    I get very little (if any) water in the bilge of my Grady.  
    
    I've always wondered why the Boston Whalers (specifically the 18
    footers) wern't designed to include scuppers.  I believe it has to do 
    with the design of the deck and how high it is above the water line. 
    
    ...MArk

    Mod hat on...
    
    A new topic has been started for aluminum boats.
    
    Discussion of trailerable fishing boats in general should remain
    here.  Replies specifically related to aluminum boats or construction
    should be placed in note 945.
    
    Thanks!
    Rick

    My dad just picked up a nice boat that I turned him on to back in the
    spring. He had been going back and forth with the guy until Sept. and 
    the seller excepted his offer. The boat a 20' Shamrock cuddy, there a 
    small step to get up on the forward deck. Its a real quallty made boat
    using heavy stainless rails and hardware. The same boats been in
    production for about ten years. The best part of the boat is thats its
    a inboard PMC. There's a keel on the boat to protect the running gear
    that also make the boat track and handle very well. It has a nice
    tandem bunk trailer with a electic winch. I like it!
    
    steve
    

    Steve,
    	I've seen the Shamrock at shows but I don't recall all the details. 
    Is it a flat bottom with soft chins (rounded) a la the downeast lobster
    boats?
    	Also, what size engine is in it?
    
    Just Curious,
    Paul

    Paul, Its got a fairly high flaired out bow and a deep vee bottom. It
    does have a downeaster shape to it. The engine a 302 ford V8 with a
    velvet drive transmision. We called the factory once to ask some
    questions about the boat. They were very helpful and also said they
    never made a I.O. boat and never will. 
    
    Steve