Conference vicki::boats

    OK.  You win.  Hands down worst service story in this file.
    

    Goes to show you how important it is to be 'mechanically informed' if
    your going to run modern complex equipment... especially when your life
    is potentially on the line out on the ocean on a boat.  Can't know
    everything but one should try and pick up the obvious visible problems
    if you can.  I think one of the problems with the recreational boating
    industry is that boaters tend to be viewed as people with excess money
    and little brains, otherwise we would not BE throwing our money into
    holes in the water.
    Sorry to hear about your personal horror saga with that I.O. drive.
    You could have bought a NEW OMC drive and engine with the money that
    got dumped into that old one.  Of course hindsite is cheap. 
    
    Let the consumer beware.
    
    Jeff

Does this boat have the OMC Cobra drive?  If so, it may (or may not)
make you feel better to know that all of your troubles were caused
by a *known* factory defect.

The early Cobras had problems with cables stretching, and there was
a factory recall on them.  They caused problems with shifting and
throttle control, and *lots* of boats ended up having damaged lower
units which needed to be rebuilt because of it. Some of them were 
rebuilt several times before the problem was fixed for good. I don't 
know the exact details of the defect or the damage caused (I'm an
outboard kind'a guy), but I think it took OMC a few years to actually 
get the bugs worked out of the Cobra drive.

If your's is a Cobra, you may have some legal recourse against the
dealer and OMC.  Especially if you can prove they knew about the 
recall and didn't tell you, instead soaking you for the cost of all 
the repairs.  If it's not a Cobra, then never mind.   8^)

Rick

    You definitely have had some serious problems.  Bruce Sweet has an OMC
    and he's had lots of similar problems.  Not as bad but similar.

    If you have an OMC cobra drive give me a call, I can fill you
    in on the details. I thought my story was bad (3 rebuilds in 1 year)
    but it ended up not costing me much $$ out of my pocket.
                           
DTN    227-3511
    
    Bruce

First of all, it's and older SeaRay circa '76 with a vanilla 390 hp OMC I/O
mated to a 302 Ford with a 2bbl. Cobra drives are much different.

Secondly, you cannot buy a "new" stern drive that mates up. The only ones avail-
able in a reasonable amount of time mate to the Chevy blocks, and have a longer
lower unit, etc. , and are rebuilt anyway.

Thirdly, I have already rebuilt engines, several outboards, as well as two
antique cars. I know what makes things work, and I doubt that there are many
folks in this conference who are capable of rebuilding a stern drive such that
you would trust your family's safety in open water. (note that after the first
re-rebuild it was always in a lake until this year, but it made its first 10 
hours in a lake here too)

My point, in addition to making someone who is  in the middle of getting ready
for the season feel like their task isn't as bad as it seems, is to share an
experience, and provide a pointer to avoid certain folks without publicly bash-
ing them.

FWIW the boat has been mine since 1984. She is the old line SeaRay, has enough
useable space for my family, sleeps 6, has a galley, all the toys, and is sea
worthy enough for anywhere I go (storm stories to follow right Rich?) It's paid
for and cheap to insure. The reliability of the 190 hp stern drive is proven, if
taken care of (oil change 1/season) and kept cool (water pump every other). She
will probably be around till 
1. I retire to live aboard a Bert, Ocean, or Jersey
2. I hit the lotto (see note 1.)

...LArry

    Sounds as if you have the electric shift outdrive. I have an OMC with
    electric shift- had my troubles in the upper gearbox assembly.
    
    THe elctric shift units are extremely succeptible to damaging the
    clutch coils by using the wrong lubricant or by pulling the  electric
    cbles apart by removing the lower unit and not disconnecting the cables
    or being generally careless in the disassembly.
    
     I have 225HP OMC electric shift (Chev 350) when i purchased the boat,
    the previous owner had just spent $2k+ getting the outdirve rebuilt.
    The first season I had it, the nut came off the main driceshaft and
    lunched the entire upper gearbox including the housing. Not being the
    original owner, the rebuilders basically said tough cookies.
    
     I ended up picking up a rebuilt gearbox from the only local outfit
    that had one (OMC had no new complete assemblies in stock) after $1600
    for the gearbox- I had a wnerful summer . I installed the gearbox into
    the lower unit and remounted the whole thing myself. By time I got all
    this doen, it was the end of August and I got to put less than 25 hrs
    on the "new " gearbox.
    
     The following year, the third time the boat was used- gearbox got
    lunched. -The )_()*()*&*&%^nut had come off and ruined all those nice
    gears and bearings. The factory manual specifically states that this
    locknut coming loose is a problem and that a NEW locknut is to be used.
    The dealer that did the job would not warantee it as he said on a
    rebuilt, only 30 days warantee,no exceptions. I mentioned the locknut
    and he blatantly stysted I couldn't prove it was used and since I took
    it apart- all bets were off. My lawyer basically said- lots of luck,
    but the warantee was pretty clear and not to waste my money pursuing
    what he thought would be a hopeless cause.
    
     then I lucked out. My son had a freind who had just spent $3k plus
    putting a totally rebuilt lower leg with rebuilt lower unit and a
    rebuilt gearbox in his boat-then decided he wanted to put the engine in
    his Corvette. The boat had been run for 2 yrs and I knew the whole
    thing was in excellent shape- I purchased the whole rig, sold off the
    surplus parts, including the spare engine and ended up with brand new
    manifolds, trim tabs, FWC, a spare lower unit, tons of spare parts
    including gears, housings, carbs etc for less than $1500.
    
     I talked to the guy who rebuilt the lower unit  before i purchased it-
    he knew all about the locknut problem and the factory mods and "fixes
    so far , it's 2yrs and no problems (except for knocking the skeg off
    and having to use that "spare " lower unit)
    
     I love th eOMC electric shit I/O's- without the truning restricy=tions
    caused by a driveshaft such as you have in the nercruisers, the drive
    arrangement in the OMC electric shift units allows the lower leg to
    turn about 75 degrees either side from center-the boat, as a result
    is extremely nmaneuverable in tight quarters- and with my slip, I need
    all the help I can get.
    
     Finding an excellent mechanic/dealer is a real challenge in the
    boating business.I do most of the work myself-including major stuff and 
    I also make sure I get all the right manuals and read them BEFORE iI
    begin to work on anything. THe lower units/Gearboxes require special
    tools and fixtures to get things aligned and adjuste, so I won't fool
    with those.
    
     I would recommend changing your own lower unit all so that you get the
    correct oil in there (the lubricant for electric shift I/O's will not
    eat the shift coils/wires!), and that the job is done right. I have
    also found that dealers/yards that cater to the commercial trade are
    usually pretty competent-the commercial guys wont tolerate
    incompetence.
    
     I can sympathize with the original note- and I am sure that everbody
    who has owned a boat has been snookered at one time or another by these
    incompetent vultures who flock to the boating business. Hopefully with
    the bad tmes now facing that industry, the bad guys willl get weeded
    out.
    
     
     

    in .2 I was not implying that the original noter was not mechanically
    informed/competent.  Anybody can be duped by inscrupulous dealers if 
    your not there to watch over their shoulder.  I was making the point
    that since it is so easy to wind up in fixes such as .0 did and ones
    life and that the life of ones friends and family can depend on
    dependable equipment in boating situations that it makes sense for 
    everybody to pay attention to the quality of the workmanship these
    dealers perform and to not let stand inferior repairs.
    
    I sympathize with your problems with the OMC drive.  I have had my
    share of mechanical problems with my equipment and I am no mechanical
    idiot either.
    
    Jeff

Re .8 see title
Re .7 The electric shift allows me to idle around 540 rmp (best little Ford
engine I've seen, & I'm a big GM fan), push the shifter forward and have it lock
without giving it any gas. Now that's trolling speed. Turning that modified deep
vee hull in her own length at pretty fair speeds is what sold me on the manuever
ability. 
	The yard I went to here in Seattle WILSON MARINE does do commercial
work, and I agree, they have to be good or their out on their collective arses.
Gerry, the mechanic told me he'd been on that spot for the last 20 years, and
had no plans to go anywhere else, so, given my sad tale, and what he was charging
me, he'd better do it right or he'd have to do it over. I recommend their shop.
I have their phone if anyone needs it. They are on Lake Union, right next to the
Fremont bridge.

...Larry

    Another phenomenon which allows recreational boaters to get ripped off
    is our hesitancy to take the time to get the thing fixed right when
    we're faced with limited time on a weekend or short vacation in which
    the boat was going to be a major part...
    
    The first guy who says he'll get you back on the water fast wins.  Cost
    is a secondary factor when faced with a ruined vacation.
    
    If the same thing happened to a car, we would take the time to find a
    competent mechanic, get second opinions, get informed ourselves, etc.
    
    The boating industry has so many ripoff artists because the consumers
    are ripe to get ripped off...
    

    Lawdy, am I sorry to hear about his one, especially being an
    ex-mechanic. However, I have a SUGGESTION and only a suggestion. Try
    pressing your claim against the NJ dealer first through the Consumer
    Affairs Division of the NJ State Government. You might be surprised at
    the action they can get. If that fails, try small claims court in your
    HOME state not NJ. The shop may settle rather than fight, especially at
    a distance. If you feel compelled to fund your lawyer, ask her/him how
    to file your claim (the grounds for it not the mechanics (bad word) of
    it). Also, you may wish to file a complaint with the BB in NJ
    indicating the ACTION you are taking not identifying cause till
    determined by whichever means you choose. In other words, let the shop
    know that you intend to pursue all means available till the problem is
    resolved. At all times stick to the facts and do not affix blame and
    don't file with the BB till after you get the first response from the
    shop. You might try calling them first, before taking any action, and see 
    if they will offer any settlement to you.
    
    Understandably, you are upset. But you've got to give the shop a chance
    to respond and the action of having a lawer intervene first may get you
    a settlement just large enough to pay his/her bill. Or it may get you
    stonewalled at your course of last resort with the shop playing the
    game of "sure you'll collect! After you spend $5 for every $1 you
    collect". Don't get me wrong I have a lawer (come to think of it 2)
    upon whom I depend and utilize. I'd just rather try the avenues that
    only cost me a certain amount of my time and little of my money to get
    satisfaction.
    
    And above all, you've got to do it to protect other consumers, if you
    are right (and your lawer should have told you that already). A pain in
    the kister but that's what some unscrupulous "business" people depend
    on. But remember, this is my opinion and a suggestion (and my in
    experience it does work - sometimes).
    
    Good luck - and much better boating this year!!