Conference vicki::boats

    I have a Cummins 210 in my 31 foot Blue Seas, which is a down-east
    cruiser. It has 2 seasons on it (400+ hours) and it has been great. It
    is fairly quiet, starts easily, very economical (6 gal./hour at cruise)
    and it cruises at 15 knots (tops is about 19 knots). I carry 220
    gallons of fuel, so the range is about 450 miles with 20% reserve.
    
    Diesels are more expensive than equivalent gas power, however, I would
    not consider gas even in a smaller vessel. Those who quest for speed
    may disagree, however my experience is that salt water crusing is best
    done in the under 30 knot range (and usually under 25 knots) and the
    proper combination of hull and diesel power will do this very
    economically. As an example, the 26' Fortier comes standard with either
    a Yanmar or Volvo diesel and cruises nicely in the 25 knot range.
    

My problem with diesels (the topic is misspelled) isn't one of debate, on the 
order of gas VS diesel, sail VS power, no it is more fundamental. Diesel exhaust
makes me sick. Literally. Over the side. Nauseated to the level where by I must 
escape the smell or embrass myself completely. In cars, as well as boats. Before
anyone points out that underway the exhaust is layed out behind, we all know 
about the conditions where you can find your self downwind of your own exhaust.

I can't tell you the number of times I've had to back down to allow a diesel
powered vessel to get well ahead of me in hardor areas because of the stomach
turning (for me) smell.

It would be nice if the new technology Mercedes talks about to reduce 
particulates (soot) and smell could be applied to boats, but of course that 
would do nothing but increase the cost of the diesel option.

john

    
    RE: .2
    
    The spelling of the topic title has been corrected.
    
    Rick

    In addition to exhaust smell, I also notice the distinct smell of
    diesel fuel whenever I enter the engine room of a diesel powered boat.
    This is even true at in the water boat shows when looking at new boats.
    I would find this hard to live with since Diesel has such a distinctive
    smell. Other than that, I would buy a diesel for all the other reasons
    such as safety, economy, longevity, resale, etc.

    Why are they so expensive?  Low-volume?  They're missing distributors,
    coils, and all the rest of the high-tension electrical system.  

Diesel exhaust makes me sick too.  I've spent countless hours on the 
water in gas powered boats, with never a trace of seasickness.  A 
friend's dad has a 32' Blackfin Sportfisherman with twin 375hp Cat 
diesels.  The design of the boat is such that the exhaust is sucked 
back into the cockpit area while trolling.  Both times I've been on 
the boat I've tossed my cookies over the rail after a couple hours 
of trolling.  I know it's the exhaust because if I stay up on the 
bridge or if we bottom fish with the engines shut off then I'm fine.

How do the big-time sportfishermen who troll for days at a time do
it?  Are they immune to diesel exhaust or do they have some other 
trick for staying out of the way of the fumes?

Rick

    They are so expensive (diesels) for a variety of reasons:
    
    1. The engine must be of more rubust design because of much higher
       compression ratio and bearing loads.
    
    2. The injection pump system is mfg. to very tight tolerences.
    
    3. Lower sales volume.
    
    I suspect the biggest reason is because of the more robust design.
    
    I know the debate between gas vs. diesel being more reliable in a 
    boat can be debated endlessly but I will offer my opinion here.
    
    I believe the diesel is more reliable and in the long run cheaper
    to operate IF you use the diesel alot.  For the pleasure boater who
    chugs to the mouth of the harbor and back once a month a diesel is
    hardly worth the added expense.  Diesels don't like to sit for extended
    periods of time.... less so than a gas engine 'likes' to sit. 
    
    The fact that a diesel does not have a spark ignition system and once
    running does not HAVE to depend on electricity to keep running in a
    salt water environment speaks for itself in my opinion.  In fact a 
    diesel will run under water if you can keep water from entering the air
    intake.  I know a gas engine will run under water too but not without
    extensive modifications.  Note: I did not say the starter and
    alternator on a diesel would not be damaged... I just said it will be
    more likely to keep running under emergency conditions.  Also the fire
    hazard of diesel oil is MUCH less than gasoline.
    
    Jeff
    
    
    
      

>How do the big-time sportfishermen who troll for days at a time do
>it?  Are they immune to diesel exhaust or do they have some other 
>trick for staying out of the way of the fumes?

    I think they become somewhat immune...
    
    These guys are so used to chum fumes, the diesels
    don't bother them in the least.  My fathers Ocean
    Yacht is diesel, and the whole family sits *way*
    up front, sometimes hanging off the catwalk to get
    away from the diesel fumes.  His crew chums fish
    right over the diesel exhausts like they were preparing
    Sunday brunch!  

    Reg made me sick last year at the boat ramp!  :>)
    
    

     I agree that the fumes are bad at times..Alot of the newer rigs have
    gone to side exhaust and some to cavities on the side actually below
    the water line (harry Schol sp.? designs)..It seems alot has to do with
    the type unit, a friend has Volvo's and they never seem to put
    out much smoke where as another has 671TA's that seem to always belch.
     In the Bertram 43 it did not seem bad at all which I attributed to
    exhaust design and outlet location. Another friend had a Magnum with
    big units and surface drives..It cooks to 60+ knots but when he is in
    a channel you do get fumed.
     I also agree with Jeff re.7 in that you really need to use a rig to
    justify the benifits of the extra cost. To me that means 400 or more
    hours a season. They are also alot less trouble when you start putting
    long hours on them..Just change oil, keep the filters and separators
    clean and off you go..Quite alot less work than gas.
     I have noticed cost comming down on the smaller units to where they
    are not that much of a adder over gas which ,if the fumes are not bad,
    more than justifies itself in resale, maintenance, reliability, etc..
    
                      

re      <<< Note 801.8 by DONVAN::DECAROLIS "hit the ball-AS LOUD AS U CAN" >>>
>                            -< Give me a gas mask! >-

>    Reg made me sick last year at the boat ramp!  :>)
 
	Moi ?   Nah !

	Explanation for everyone else:

		There's a diesel engine under the hood of the vehicle
that tows my ski tow boat {clear ?, good}.  What I hope the lady meant
was that the smell of the engine fumes from that tow boat's tow
vehicle's engine made her  "nauseous"  ?   Not ME  (-:, (-:

	Anyway, I really don't mind the smell, sometimes I kinda like 
it  - -  at worst its a bit like an oil fired furnace that needs a
tune up, and its never as bad as the sulphurous fumes from unleaded
gas cars when they get out of tune. 

	Reg
    

But since we are talking mostly of boats, the sulfur smell won't be a problem 
since boats aren't required to have catalytic convertors on them. The source of
the problem isn't the gas engine, but the pollution control device downstream of
it. Where as on a diesel the engine is the source of the smell.

john

    Hey Reg,

    	You've made me sick on occasion too! Especially when
    I first heard about the FBB!

    	Also, because I didn't catch Jeanne's fauxpas first! grumble...

re                       <<< Note 801.12 by KAHALA::SUTER >>>
>                               -< Blechhhhhhhh! >-

	Hey, Bleeeeachhhh to you too.


>    	You've made me sick on occasion too! Especially when
>    I first heard about the FBB!

	I get C-sic sometimes;  but I think it might be work related.
My buddie, Ray, has the same problem;  {hit next unseen to avoid}



	Nah, I can't......



	You wouldn't wanna...


	See Ray get sick