Conference vicki::boats

    You will have better luck in the RAINBO::FISHING notes file. Some
    of your questions are already found there. The notes file has a
    directory in note 555, so start there. 
    
    As for vendors, you may want to check out the Worcester Expo where
    lots of fishing equipment vendors show there wares. It is in the
    Centrum from February 6-10th.

The suggestion to check the FISHING conference is a good one, those guys 
have more experience with electric motors.

>>Can anybody point me in the direction of a vendor of 2-3hp combustion
>>engine in New England?
  
Pick up the yellow pages and take your pick - Every major outboard 
manufacturer or dealer would carry motors in your size range (with the
possible exception of Force).
  
>> Are low-power combustion engines as light as electric engines? (I'm
>> looking for real portability here.)
   
Most 2-3 hp gas motors are *real* light, and the electric motor is probably
a little lighter.  But the need for a 50 lb. battery for the electric
motor more than offsets the difference.  For portability, a gas motor with
built-in tank or small 3 gallon accessory tank is probably the way to go.

>> Are the "marine batteries" used in power boats for ignition the same
>> batteries used to power electric (trawling) motors?

If you go with the electric, be sure to get a "deep cycle" marine battery.
These are intended to be fully discharged between chargings without harming
them, as would be the case when used with a trolling motor.

Rick

As noted in .-1 the weight of a 28lb thrust (~2hp) electric is a little lighter
than a 2hp Evinrude gas engine, but the weight of the battery(ies) makes the 
electric system heavier.  Where the electric wins is in its noise level, small
gas engines are noisy, especially at high rpms.

When the gas engine runs out of fuel, you pour in another quart (1.5 lbs) and 
you're on your way. When the electric runs out of juice, you had better be close
to a recharger or it's a long paddle back.

Al

    Thanks for the input folks.
    I found the fishing conference on RANGER::FISHING, and they did indeed 
    have a nice, informative note on the subject of inflatables and 
    light motors.
    
    There is yet one more question, which the .3 partially answered: how
    does pounds of thrust translate to hp?
    
    OK, if 28 pounds of thrust translate to 2hp, how many pounds of thrust
    translate to 3hp?
    
    The boat I'm probably going to buy is rated for 3hp, and I'm looking
    at fairly long jaunts of more than 5 miles each way to dive sites.
    I'm partial to the electric motors because of the noise issue (and
    they don't leave rainbows in the water). I plan on getting a spare
    battery to carry in the boat with me at all times.
    
    So, how many pounds of thrust do I get to equal 3hp?
    
    Thanks again.
    
    John H-C
    

    Sorry about the wrong node for the FISHING notes file. They switched
    this week, I wondered why I couldn't access that file.
    
    Anyway, do a DIR/title=trolling and you will find about 10 notes 
    dealing with gas and mostly electric trolling motors. Note 674.24
    will give you the horsepower to thrust conversion numbers. 
    
    For an example a 3HP electric will give you 45 ibs of thrust.
    
    Check out the Cabela's catalog for about 30 different motor
    configurations within two brands, Minn Kota and MotorGuide.
    
    The prices range from about $84 to $460. Cabela's: 800-237-8888.
    
    

    THANKS for the info.
    
    To think that I threw out my Cabela's catalog last week without even
    thinking to look in there for electric motors.
    
    John H-C
    

    re: #4
    
    	> trip of five miles each way to and from the dive site <
    
    	Caveat
    
    	I've got limited experience with electric motors ( I sometimes use 
    	a small one of unknown thrust on my canoe) and even less knowledge of
    	inflatable boats.  
    
    	But.... I'd be pretty leery of setting out on a ten mile trip
    	powered by an eggbeater - even with an extra battery.  The 
    	batterys, by the way, weight a lot.  You're not
    	thinking of using it in the ocean are you ?  I do recall adds for
    	a saltwater electric motor ("The GreatWhite" something or other)
    	and occasionally I read an article about someone using electrics
    	to putter around the flats in the keys or to power a tender.  I
    	suspect you'd shorten the life of an unprotected motor by using it
    	in the salt.
    	
    	In each of these instances, the electric was used for a pretty
    	limited purpose.  From my experience, I dont really trust the 
    	motor to provide a long term power source and dont expect it to
    	manage currents/tide/wind very well.   If (when) my motor
    	quits, its not a big effort to paddle back home.  
    	
    	From what I recall about inflatables, they're not a dream to 
    	row/paddle.
    
    	I'd take another look at small outboard motors.  

    Bass Pro Shops (1-800-BASSPRO for a catalog) offers the minn kota
    3hp electric for $294.97 - I believe minn kota is the only manufacturer
    that makes electrics that powerful (they even have a 24volt 4hp).
    
    donmac
    
    ps: FISHING is still on RAINBO too, RANGER is the cluster alias.
    

    You answered my question: what use do you have for the inflatabe.
    
    Diving and a 10 mile round trip...
    
    My other question is where are you gonna use it.
    
    If the inflatable you have in mind will take a 3hp motor,
    i'd like to understand what the capacity of the dinghy is:
    
    If your going diving, (assume scuba) you are taking a companion
    along as a "buddy".
    With 2 people, gear, battery,(ies) you've got quite a load,
    not to mention the lack of speed you won't have.
    
    If your goin in the ocean, unless your gonna follow the
    shoreline, you really asking for trouble...........
    
    I have an Achilles 11' with an 8 hp outboard, i use to fish/clam
    with. I go about 4 miles to the next island. There have been
    several times i've hugged that outboard. Cause once i got
    caught out in the open in a storm.
    
    Give us a little more info..
    
    JIm.

    Well, I guess if I give you more info, you'll give me more info?
    
    I'm looking at buying a Sea Eagle 9 inflatable. 11 feet long, weight
    capacity 1200 pounds (3 divers plus gear and two batteries leaves about
    200 pounds to spare), rated to accommodate up to a 4hp engine.
    
    I'm primarily a freshwater diver, and the boat's main use is to let me
    hit any lake I feel like exploring. I would use the boat in saltwater
    maybe five times a year, just to avoid long surface swims and/or
    "private---NO DIVERS ALLOWED" access limitations. Rough surf and heavy
    wind tend to curb the desire to go underwater, so I don't anticipate
    taking the boat out under those conditions. In any case, saltwater use
    would definitely be limited to shore hugging.
    
    The big appeal is that the boat weighs a total of 40 pounds deflated
    and wouldn't occupy much more space than another bag of scuba gear
    (which in effect it will be).
    
    As I think I implied in the first note, I would happily consider a
    combustion-engine motor, though I don't particularly like the noise,
    if it were somehow more practical. 
    
    In many cases, I will be heading out late at night or early in the
    morning, and noise is a real factor is relatively enclosed freshwater
    spaces, where sound is louder a hundred feet from the source than it is
    right AT the source.
    
    So, can somebody tell me why they would choose a gas-powered small
    motor over an electric one?
    
    Are they cheaper?
    
    Thanks.
    
    John H-C

    Just for reference, I have a 4 HP Suzuki. It has an integral tank. It
    planes a 9' Livingston Dinghy (That is a fiberglass, twin hull boat)
    with two adults in it. I don't think it is that noisy even at full
    throttle cause the wind and water noise when you are on a plane is
    pretty loud anyway. Idling is just a putt-putt.
    It weighs 48 lbs. It cost $639. last year. It has a three year
    warranty.                                      

    re .10  
    
    		I dont know anything about the sea eagle 9, but are you sure 
    	you can carry three divers and all the required accessories in 
    	an eleven foot boat ?  - including an anchoring system/lights/lunch
    	etc/etc...   seems tight.    
    
    	In any event; Pros and Cons
    
    Cons:
    	Power and duration
    	                 
    	I have a hard time believing an electic motor could safely 
    	push a soft bottomed inflatable boat weighting 1200 lbs for any distance.
    	Maybe the bigger models have more guts, but I suspect your boat has
    	a considerably different underwater profile than a ranger bass
    	boat or one of those kevlar keys skiffs.  (ie a lot more surface
    	area and resulting drag)
    	
    	Battery
    
    	These are pretty heavy fellows and need to be	
    	recharged after every use.  This means buying a battery charger and
    	remembering to juice 'em up before every outing.  In addition, I'm
    	never sure what sort of power is left.  You also have to use some
    	thought in placing the battery in the boat.  (in most small boats,
    	trim is pretty important)
    
    	Durability
     
    	My eggbeater is a cute little fellow, complete with a tiny plastic
    	prop, a stubby shaft and a silly throttle/handle.  It works just fine 
    	for its intended use. (pushing a stiff 55lb fiberglass canoe). 
    	One good whack on it's little head, and I suspect it would sputter
    	to a stop.  I know there are stronger models.  And there are
    	saltwater designs.  But none (to my knowledge) were intended as a
    	main power source.  
    
    Pros
    
    	I suspect an electic motor, with battery and charger is cheaper
    	than almost any new gas motor.
    
    Before I bought one, I'd look for somebody who had the same boat and 
    get their thoughts.   - or hang around the boat show, the sales reps 
    there have lots of opinions.

    So far so good! Thanks.
    re: -2
    
    Having read approximately 200 notes regarding electric motors,
    inflatables, and power/profile relations, I feel moderately confident
    that a 3hp motor could push me the desired distance at a reasonable
    speed (slightly faster than my canoe would be fine---I don't
    particularly like wakes). I may decide to go with the 4hp version
    depending basically on $. 
    
    This is the first place, however, where I've started hearing positive
    things about gas motors. (I suppose I COULD get used to the noise/smell
    if the thing was sealed enough not to leave rainbows on the water.)
    
    Do gas engines in the low-hp range use straight autogas, or do I have
    to mix it with oil beforehand?
    
    Our old 15hp Evinrude requires mixing of oil and gas, and I hate the
    mess, the hassle, and the inexactness of my measurements.
    
    It is, however, an ANCIENT motor. I was hoping to find out, among other
    things, how the low-hp outboard motor technology/configurations had
    changed in recent years.
    
    Any other good reasons out there for gas engines on the backs of boats?
    (Speed is not really an object, and the boat can't take more than 4hp.)
    
    Thanks again for all the comments.
    
    John H-C

    	Honda has been making small 4 stroke outboards and I think 
    they are being joined by a few others as well (Yamaha or Suzuki...
    I don't remember which). Four stroke engines don't require mixing 
    oil with the gas. They are also quiter than the usual two stroke 
    outboards. They do have the drawback of extra weight but in comparison 
    to an electric with a couple batteries I think they would still come 
    out lighter.
    	I don't know the smallest size they make but I bet its around four
    hp. It might be worth looking into.
    	IMHO - electrics should not be used in the application you
    describe for the reasons already stated.
    Regards,
    Paul
    

    Now, would you like to hear that I sold my 9' Sea Eagle and bought
    a "real" inflatable, an 9' Achilles LSR4 ?  Power is a 2.2 gas outboard
    because of the battery issue mentioned previously and because you
    can't row an inflatable.
    
    Are we having fun yet ?
    
    Rick
    

    re: -1
    
    Well, yes, I would! Why didn't the Sea Eagle seem like a "real"
    inflatable to you?
    I'm planning on buying the floorboard (if that makes any difference)
    because I don't want my tanks or my weights stretching the fabric. Is
    fabric the issue? This boat, whichever one I buy, will spend many hours
    in the water and many more hours folded up in the back of my car, ready
    to go whenever the whim strikes.
    How does your Achilles compare with the Sea Eagle weight-wise? Is it
    easier or harder to inflate/deflate? (I can get an adapter for a low
    pressure hose that will let me fill the boat from one of tanks.)
    
    More data, please.
    
    
    Thanks.
    
    John H-C
    

IMHO a "big" electric motor is probably NOT a viable option for your 
application.

1:	most electrics over 31 lbs of thrust REQUIRE 2 12 volt batteries if
	you want to use the extra push (they're 12v/24v motors).

2:	if you want EXTRA (reserve) power you're talking 3 or 4 batteries
	at 30+ lbs each/ $50 each.

3:	A small electric may push that size boat with one or two people in
	it up onto plane, but I'd be astonished if it would get 

		3 adults 		@180lbs (540) 
		3 scuba tanks 		@20lbs  ( 60)
		3 weightbelts		@20lb	( 60)
		3 batteries 		@30lbs	( 90) 
		the boat 		@40lbs 	( 40)
		the electric motor 	@30lbs	( 30)
						-----
						 820

		with the misc gear (anchor, paddles, fins line, etc) you're 
	talking 1000lbs here.

4:	Let's assume you find someplace shallow (less than 30') that's 
	particularly interesting. You make a dive early in the morning, use up
	your air supply, motor back to the car.  You're not likely to get a
	second dive in that day because it takes too long to recharge the
	batteries.  If it was a gas engine, you'd pour in another tank of gas,
	recharge your scuba tanks and go.


Conclusion:	Unless stealth is a major objective here (seems you said
		something about doing this in the "early morning" and were
		trying to get around signs which were intended to discourage
		diving) your money would be better spent on a gas engine than
		on an electric.
FWIW:
Al

    OK, folks. I'm feeling a sway in what I thought was a solid, stronly
    rooted preference for an electric motor.
    
    So, a few gas-motor oriented questions:
    
    If I'm looking at a 4hp gas engine....
    
    What are the brand names you folks would most highly recommend?
    What price could I expect to spend for the best price/performance
    ratio?
    What are the likely gallons/hour I can expect on a decent p/p ratio?
    Are there any "standard" noise-reduction features I should look for?
    (Jargon that isn't intuitively obvious that I should look/listen for is
    what I mean.)
    
    [In reference to a remark in -1: I'm looking for quiet because that is
    what I think a lake environment should be. Early AM (dawn around 4:30
    in Summer) is when one sees the wildlife, and it is the ideal time to
    start a long overwater trek to a dive site in a small boat because of
    minimum wake caused by the power boaters (you guys here, I guess). As a
    person with a house on a normally tranquil cove on Winni, I have over
    the years come to detest loud noises on the lake at any time of day
    other than braod daylight, and I know my neighbors --- who will be
    hearing my motor, whichever kind it is --- feel the same way about
    noise.
    There is no need for stealth in approaching ocean dive sites from the
    water. It's crossing the land that bothers landowners, because it
    belongs to them and is their responsibility. I wholeheartedly
    sympathize with their desire to keep strangers, including divers, off
    their property. There are no "seaowners," as far as I know. 8*) ]
    
    John H-C

    I did not mention this before, but i had a Sea Eagle dinghy
    in 83. I was not impressed. i had a 2.2 hp on it, and it could
    not hold it. I have since seen other models of their line,
    and again i am not impressed.
    
    For what you have in mind, i think an Achilles 11' foot would
    adequately meet your needs, with a Yamaha 4 hp gas motor.
    
    You'll find the Achilles will meet your accomodation needs,
    with regard to weight capacity, room, etc, the 4 hp Yamaha
    will meet your Stealth needs.
    
    example: i have the Achilles, with an 8 hp Yamaha, at idle
    you the observer can hardly hear it.
    
    You'll be further ahead with the Achilles, or similar quality
    unit with a "gas" motor than with the Sea Eagle/electric.
    You do have to mix gas with oil.
    
    Some good ideas: 
    
    Get an outboard:
    
    1. with electronic ignition, smaller motors have a magneto ignition,
      they are harder to start, and in the long run are a pain.
    
    2. one with an external tank, say 3-4 gals. the need to mix fuel
       is less frequent, and you will have plenty of reserve.
    
    JIm.
    
    

    re: -1
    
    The cost I'm looking at for a Sea Eagle 9 Motormount with floorboard
    and air pump plus a 3hp electric motor is approximately $800.
    
    What would I be looking at cost-wise for an 11' Achilles with a 4hp
    Yamaha gas motor?
    
    One other thing: what exactly did you mean by
    "...a 2.2 hp on it, and it could not hold it."?
    
    How big was your Sea Eagle? Did you know what its hp rating was before
    you put the 2.2 hp motor on it?
    
    Thanks.
    
    John H-C

    My guess for cost would be about $2250.
    
    I can't recall the rating, but it had a motor bracket contraption
    you could install on the back, when you would rev the motor
    it wanted to go under the boat, due to the torque of the prop.
    
    The Achilles i have today, has a plywood transom.
    
    I've had 5 dinghies over the years, believe me you'll be much
    happier with the Achilles or an equivalent.
    
    The Sea Eagle line in my opinion is an extremely light duty
    unit.
    
    Look around, i'll bet there are or will be some good deals on used
    equipment.
    
    one other thing, Honda does make a 4 stroke, (don't mix oil, burns
    straght gas) but i thought they were awfully noisy.
    Todays outboards don't spill oil like the older units do.
    Usually they're operators do.
    
    I think if you go ahead with the Sea Eagle purchase, you'll only
    find in a short time you will be disappointed with it,
    and want to sell it. You'll soon find that "no-one" will
    want to give you anywhere near what you paid for it.
    
    Its your decision, we've given you plenty of justification
    as to what we think you should do.
    
    JIm.

    Ok. Next stop: Bliss Marine. I'll see what they have to say for
    themselves.
    Thanks for all your comments.
    
    John H-C
    

    Whoa, and hold on,  WHY ARE YOU GOING TO BLISS....?????
    
    JIm.

RE:  Ok. Next stop: Bliss Marine. 

I don't know if that's your best bet, Bliss doesn't rate too highly
in my book.  I'd check BOAT/US first, they carry all the major brands
of inflatables.  They also have a "best price guarantee", which states
that they'll meet anyone's price, plus refund 10% of the difference.

I don't have my BOAT/US catalog here with me today.  Will be glad to
bring it in tomorrow and post some prices if you want.

Rick

    Brown's in Gloucester is clearing out their Achilles stock.
    I bought my LSR4, 9' model from them for $775.-.  It's last year's model.
    Dave Zingg was the salesman.  Boat U.S. as well as Inflatable
    specialists from San Francisco to Stuart Fl. quoted $925.- to 995.- for
    this year's model.
    
    The "house brands" at Boats US and West are definately less expensive
    than the Avons, Zodiacs or Achilles.  Details regarding features
    vary amongst them all.
    
    I have a 2.2 Merc, purchased used, (about two years),  through this
    notes file for about $250.-.  It is NOISY.  Fuel mixing issue is
    handled by pre-mixing in a separate 5 gal. fuel container. 
    
    My particular needs were for very light weight (51#) and the ability
    to inflate on a sailboat deck without removing the floorboards.
    For diving I'd get both larger boat and motor.  One new twist I
    learned with inflatables is that interior measurements are important
    not just length and beam.
    
    My experience with Sea Eagle was that it was too flexible in the
    water, had less acceptable valves, material less durable than
    Hypalon types, tube diameter relatively small, and "dinghy" style
    without solid transom was not optimal for an engine.  Also, the
    mating pieces on the floorboards broke on first day out.                  
    
    Regards,
    
    Rick
            
    

    Thanks. I'll keep watching this note for any other experiences people
    have had with Sea Eagles.
    BTW, they claim to have changed the material their boats are made of in
    the last year. Regardless of the material, though, wouldn't the
    pressure to which you've inflated it have more to do with its rigidity
    than the kind of material it's made of?
    
    John H-C

    NO, the material and the method of manufacturing is the key..
    
    JIm.

    If you go the electric route and wish to use it in the salt, then you
    should look into the stainless steel units. Both Minn Kota and
    MotorGuide sell them.
    
    Also, look into the prices from LL Bean's Fly Fishing Specialties
    catalog (800-341-4341 to order catalog). For comparison shopping
    I compared prices on a 799MX w/42" shaft. Cabela's price is $404.95
    and Bean's price is $295. Big difference!
    
    I am in the market for a 3hp stainless, with maximizer and remote foot
    control, and a 42" shaft. From reading the notes in FISHING this seems
    like a fit for a 18' center console boat. Fully loaded I figure the
    boat to be around 18-1900 pounds. The graph in the Cabela's catalog 
    shows that a 3hp is good for a 2500 pound craft. I would actually get
    a 4hp but they don't have anything in stainless for that rating.
    
    I will probably look to see what BPS prices are, but I wish I had more
    of a choice of vendors. Especially when I see a $110 dollar difference 
    between Bean's and Cabela's.
    
    Any input is appreciated.
    

>>1:	most electrics over 31 lbs of thrust REQUIRE 2 12 volt batteries if
>>	you want to use the extra push (they're 12v/24v motors).
    
    MinnKota's 3hp (45lbs of thrust according to reply .5) is a 12 volt
    motor.  Only the 24 volt 4hp model would require 2 batteries.
    
    donmac

    RE:.29
    
       The Minn Kota 799MX is NOT listed as a salt water unit.  The
    S/S PowerDrive 3 HP is the appropriate one for use in the salt.
    Bass Pro lists this at $459.97 w/42" shaft and $479.97 w/48".
    You may want to think about the 48" to be sure the prop stays
    in the water in the waves.  It's a real pain to have it keep
    blowing out of the water every time the boat goes over a wave.
       $295 is a GREAT price for the 799MX, Bass Pro lists it at
    $399.97.
       My 2 cents.
    				B.C.

    A lot of folks have had a lot to say in response to the various
    responses here. I thank you all for your comments. They've been very
    useful. Now, I have one more request:
    
    Could everybody who's been following this note please cast a vote as
    to whether gas or electric makes more sense for my application? 
    (Short trips on lakes to various dive sites at odd hours of the day
    when QUIET is a valuable attribute.)
    
    No explanation for your votes necessary (some have already been
    provided), but I would like to read your opinions as a sort of
    summarizing judgement.
    
    Thanks.
    
    John H-C

RE: Note 790.32 

>> Could everybody who's been following this note please cast a vote as
>> to whether gas or electric makes more sense for my application? 
 
Huh?  You're going to let your purchase decision be swayed by a 
popular vote?  I generally prefer to weigh the pros and cons and 
make my own decisions as to what's best for me.  You've been given 
lots of good information by people with experience. I think the 
consensus is already clear that an inexpensive inflatable with 
electric power is not the best solution for taking 3 divers across 
10 miles of ocean.

IMO, the final decision is your's, not that of a popular vote.

Rick

    here's my vote:::
    
    You really need a 37 Ocean with full tower, with all electronics,
    including SSB, with T871TA's, or better still T892TA's,
    you'll blow the doors off anyone...
    
    OOP's don't forget the chair, flying gaff, 6 Fenwick's, with
    Internationals, bait station, cockpit controls.
    
    If this ain't availabale to excessive demand, take a Bert or
    a Hat...
    
    JIm.

    re: .33 & .34
    
    I didn't say I was going to let anybody make my decision FOR me, I just
    wanted to see the votes. A poll, so to speak.
    
    Signor Borzumato: Your vote doesn't count. I KNOW what YOU think.
    <grin>
    
    John H-C

    I just read the base note and the replies.  Save youself some trouble
    and buy the gas engine.  For the boat get one with a hard transome to
    mount the motor on.  I have one with the motor clamp and would happly 
    buy a different one if I could.
    
    Some thoughs on the electric solution.   If the 3 hp rating is a real
    hp rating then the motor would use 3x776watts = 2328 watts / 12 volts
    = 194 amps.  With a 100 Ahr battery you might get 20 to 30 minutes
    running time.  All this assumes no losses and the battery is completely
    discharged.  Also a real 100 ahr deep cycle battery weighs >70 lbs.
    
    Now if the "3hp" rating is an equalvant then the above does not count.
    What I mean by equalvant is some vendors rate the electric motors in
    the thrust developed by a "3hp" gas engine.  So the electrical inpu
    maynot be the same as 3x776 watts.  It maybe lower.  But I would be 
    very scoptical of any electric motor vendor who claims "3hp" output
    with only 20 amp input.   You should check on what is the continues
    hp rating for the electric.  It may not be the same as the ads.
    
    Maybe someone else can figure out the hp required to push 
    your antipicated load at some speed.  
    
    So the bottom line is I don't think you can carry enough juice in a
    battery(s) to do what you want.  Buy a gas engine.
    
    Ken Chester
    

       Minn Kota claims a max amp draw of 45 for the 3HP.  They DO list
    as equivalent thrust/speed as a gas motor of the same power rating.
    
       My 2 cents (again).  Electric motors are meant mainly for trolling
    or maneuvering a boat and for short distance travel.  45 amp draw
    won't give you a whole lot of travel time on a typical 105 amp deep
    cycle battery.  You also loose power and speed as the battery draws
    down.  I believe you said something about 10 miles??  Get the Gas.
    
    					B.C.

    I went to the Fishing Expo at the Centrum in Worcester today. I've
    decided to buy the 1991 3hp Evinrude. I haven't decided where, though.
    What decided me were these things:
    An integral 1+ gallon tank
    Muffler cowling that puts the exhaust beneath the surface
    Weight of 37 pounds
    The dimensions looked manageable
    
    I'll still have to mix the gas and oil before putting it in the tank,
    but that seems like a relatively small inconvenience.
    
    Now the quest begins for a store to sell it me for less than $550.
    
    Thanks to everybody for all their commentary here and in e-mail. 
    Maybe all those powerboaters aren't all as bad as my experience had led
    me to believe? <grin>
    
    John H-C

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Note 1099.0                      Trolling or Not                      No replies
KAOU93::BROUILLARD "Can the fox outrun the rabbit"    6 lines  12-AUG-1993 09:27
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    I went fishing 3 weeks hoping to be able to troll with my
    70 johnson without success.  Some have mention the best is
    a trolling motor and some have mention trolling plate for 
    my 70 johnson.  What are the pro's and con's ?
    
    Pascal

re: .39

	Where are you trolling with your 70hp Johnson and what size boat?

	I've had no problem tolling with mine on a 19ft SeaNymph (Aluminum)
	in the Merrimcak River or Ocean.

	I would consider adding a trolling motor only as a fuel conserving
	measure/spare or motor for lakes restricting hp size etc.

	But so far so good.

	-< Tuna Tail >- aka dick