Conference vicki::boats

	Hi Allen,

	My most recent experience with a ski school was this past spring
	at Mike Seipel's Barefoot International New England school in
	Brookfield, MA.  I've also attended his school in Lantana, FL
	(near West Palm Beach).  Mike's is the only school which I've
	had an experience with and what an experience it's been!

	It depends on what you're looking for at a school.  Do you want
	to work on slalom, tricks, jump, etc.?  I can't recommend any
	schools for these events, but I do highly recommend BI if you're
	into barefooting!  Mike and Nick Young are great instructors
	and are very patient!  I plan on attending their NE school
	again next spring.

	Also, where will you be in Florida?  Your best bet might be
	to pick up an issue of Water Ski magazine that may has a
	ski school listing.  I think their annual boat buyer's guide
	usually has a thorough listing.  Do you have access to a copy?

>> Is there a notes file on waterskiing?

	Nope, but it ain't a bad idea!

	Good luck!

	-ric.

    Allen,
       Three questions need to be answered:
                1. Where in Florida will you be.
                2. What is your ability.
                3. What do you want to work on or learn.
    
    Then we can give you recommendations/experience.
    Several of the WSkiers in this file have been to a number of schools.
    Doug 

Allen, I have a copy of the 1988 AWSA Water Ski School Directory which I'll be
glad to make a copy of and send to you if you'll post (or send me) your
mailstop.  I'm sure it's a bit outdated as far as pricing information goes, but
I'd guess most of the phone numbers would still be valid.  Let me know if you'd
like a copy.

I agree with the previous replies (I've been to B.I. in FL and MA too).  Also,
to emphasize what Doug said, be sure to set a goal of what you want to learn
(e.g. full pass thru the course at 15' off, 100 feet off the jump, etc.).  There
are so many things to learn and so little time (and energy).  Get the
instructors to show you the "rough sketches" of several things you'd like to
learn (for variety's sake), but then get them to help with some of the fine
points of one or two of them.  Just going to a ski school and saying "I wanna
ski!" won't help you much (short of satisfying your undying need to ski even
when it's cold in N.E.)!  :-)

Oh yeah, and bring some Advil, too!  :-)

...Roger...

    Yo!!!!!!
    
    
    	Thanks for writing.  My mailstop is KYO, and I'll be looking for 
    	the AWSA Ski School Directory, if you would be so kind  as to send 
    	it to me. 
    
    	I am planning a trip for Feb.  It will be for myself and a 
    	couple of friends.  Now, these other two friends are a little 
    	better than me, but none of us has been through a  slalom course.  
    	None of us Barefoot, (I'd like to try)  and none of us
    	jump (I might try this, too).
    
    	As far as my ability, I can get up in a double boot ski every
    	try, and make cuts with my arm outstrecthed.  I don't brake 
    	with the ski before the cut (too much else going on to worry 	
    	about this) and can get a spray from the cut up over my head 
    	about 60% of the time. This wall of water doesn't go over
    	twice my height, but it gets close.  
    
    	I have been skiing for 4 years, and just this past year I have 
    	been getting comfortable "controlling the ski".  BTW, the ski
    	I use is an HO Mach 1.  I always ski at the full line  (75 ft).
    
    
    	Now, what I'd like to learn in order of importance.  I want to 
    	slalom better, and want to try to get through a course.  This 
    	is my top priority.  The finer nuances like braking into the
    	curve, the initial "pull", the balance through the cut, and just
    	overall more control is what I want to work on in this area.  
    	You know, the little tips that will make me look smoother and 
    	cleaner next summer.  I would also like to go to a school 
    	where they videotape the students.  
    
    	I would like to try barefooting, and I want to at least have the
    chance to take a crack at it.  Off of a boom, maybe?  But the slalom
    	priority will probably have me really tired, so this area would 
    	be just to say I did it.  Is that what the advil was for, all those
    	aching muscles?
    
    	On a good day, you could get me to hit the jump, but I won't 
    	want a refund if there isn't one available at the school.
    
    	I want to have the option to ski all day.  I don't know what kind
    	of restrictions they put on ski time, this will be the first school
    	I would be going to.
    
    
    	As far as a place in Florida, the warmer the better.  People 
    	were telling me that northern florida can get cold in the 
    	winter.  I guess I don't care where in Florida I go other 
    	than the temperature factor.  Should I be concerned about the
    	location?
    
    

    
    re:                   <<< Note 768.4 by KYOA::CAPALDI >>>
    
    	Your thoughts around improving slalom skiing sound good.
    Letting a school improve your *technique* is the right way to go.
    
    >	I want to have the option to ski all day.  I don't know what kind
    >	of restrictions they put on ski time, this will be the first school
    >	I would be going to.
    
    	Most schools I've been to/heard about average about 5 students
    per boat. This seems to be a good number. It gives each skier enough
    time to rest, but not so much time that you're sitting around all day.
    (Where did I write that note about Hazelwood's?)
    
    	Any place in Florida seems warm to me, but as a couple at the 
    last school I went to said; "We're from Texas and this water is cold"
    personally I thought it was like a bathtub.
    
    Rick
    
    	Enjoy it and try as many things as you can and yes the Advil is
    for all the abuse you take in a solid week of skiing!
    

    February is an iffy time to go to Central Florida.  You might get 
    lucky and experience temperatures in the 80s.  Then again, it might 
    not reach 60.  Your best bet is to head south.
    
    I plan to go in April, when you're guaranteed to get warm weather, 
    and you'll be psyched to try out all the things you've learned
    shortly after you get back!
    
    Anne

    someone was telling me to go to the west palm beach area.  They  also
    said that the instructor was the one who determined the quality of the 
    school.  
    
    Here's more.  How much is this going to cost?  Waht about good airfare
    prices?  Any ideas?  
    
    Where do you stay?  In a nearby hotel, or are there bunking facilities?
    
    Please, some of you that went to school already, write in your
    comments.  It would be helpful to hear what a day is like at these
    places.  Where do you eat?  How many people are attending?  How many 
    boats does the school have?  How much do you get to ski?
    
    I know these  are a lot of questions, and thanks in advance for being
    so helpful.
    
    	Allen

Allen, I'll take a crack at some of your questions.

Most schools provide on-site bunking facilities that range from a cot with a
mattress (bring your own sleeping bag) to rooms with beds, sheets and blankets.
Some may book you in a room at a nearby hotel/motel.  Most places have weekly
and daily rates, and some have half-day, hourly, and single ride rates.
Typically, rates are quoted for skiing only, and for skiing plus room & board
(thus including meals).  Average cost (looking at the 1988 rates) run from
between $75-$125 per day w/o room & board.  Figure about $20-$30 more per day
with room & board.  Weekly rates average out to be cheaper when divided into
per-day increments (i.e. the weekly rates are not 5 X daily_rate).

As far as boats and instructors, it varies.  Many of them have at least two
boats with one instructor per boat (s/he is the driver), although I can imagine
some schools having two instructors per boat, one to drive and the other to
watch and instruct.  Others may have experience with this type of school.  Many
schools also provide gear like wetsuits, skis, etc. although if you have them
it's a good idea to bring them (so you can get the "feel" with your own
equipment).  If they do provide gear, definitely take advantage of the
opportunity to try different things like drysuits, wetsuits, another ski, 
skis, rope handles, etc.  You'll also find in the ski school directory that
many schools describe the type of waterway you'll be skiing on (lake, canal,
river, etc.) as well as facilities like jump ramps, slalom courses, trick
courses, pro shop (bring the plastic card!), etc. 

My experience was at Barefoot International in Lantana, Fl (just outside W. Palm
Beach) back in March '89.  The rate we paid was $110/day including room & board.
A day typically consisted of rise & shine around 7:00, breakfast around 7:30,
get your gear together shortly thereafter, and hit the water by 9:00 (sometimes
earlier if a boat-load [no more than 5] were ready sooner), ski till 11:30, head
back for lunch around noon, digest and relax till around 1:30, start getting
ready for the afternoon session, and we were back on the water by 2:00 to ski
till 5:00.  Believe me, by 5:00, you're beat!  And now, it's Miller (and Advil)
time!!!  Evenings are yours, so you can do as you please.  We basically hung out
at the bunk house watching videos of the day's events, the "Hot Rock'n Feet"
video about a hundred thousand times, and talking about how we'll do better
tomorrow if we can get out of bed!  :-)  It's a great experience that I *HIGHLY*
recommend to anyone.  It's a dedicated atmosphere...all anyone wants to do is
ski...it's a beautiful thing!

BTW, the ski school directory is on its way.  I think you find answers to most
of your questions in there.  Drop me a line when it arrives so I know you
received it.

...Roger...

>>    Here's more.  How much is this going to cost?  Waht about good airfare
>>    prices?  Any ideas?  

	The only school I have experience with is BI, and it's $100 a day
	and I think $450 for a week, WITHOUT any lodging.  As far as air
	fares go, check with the airlines or a travel agency.  Shop around,
	'cause you can find some great deals out there if you plug at it.
    
>>    Where do you stay?  In a nearby hotel, or are there bunking facilities?

	Most school have bunk houses.  If they don't or are full, they can
	refer you to a local motel or hotel.  If you stay at the school,
	I believe that at least two meals are provided a day.

>>    places.  Where do you eat?  How many people are attending?  How many 
>>    boats does the school have?  How much do you get to ski?

	I did one day at BI in FLA, and had lunch at a nearby McDonald's.
	If finances are a concern, you could shop at a local supermarket.
	This is what I did when I went to BI out in Brookfield.  I stayed
	in a local motel.  It was small and cheap, but after a day at BI,
	all I wanted was a mattress!

	If you want to know about the facilities, such as how many boats
	are there, check with the schools.  I think that most, if not all
	of your questions could be answered by the guide that Roger
	alluded to.

	As far as how much you ski, from my experience at BI, it was as
	much as you want.  One thing to keep in mind, is that you are at
	the school to learn, and every time you're in the water you're
	giving 110%.  We had typically 4 or 5 students in a boat, and
	got in about 4 to 5 20-minute sets a day each.  However, the sets were
	as long as you wanted them to be.  Rarely did Mike or Nick tell
	you to give someone else a try.  They will be able to see who
	has the stamina and who doesn't.  If you will be there for a week,
	pace yourself.  You don't want to go over board in the first few
	days and be left with nothing by the end of the week.  Take a
	serious look at your conditioning.  I consider myself to be in
	good shape, and I can't do more than 3 days of BI.  Barefooting
	will be tougher on the body, but I think you need to have the
	same thing in mind with any other school.

	On-the-water time is not the only time you will be learning.  You
	will no doubt be grouped with students of less and more skill than
	yourself.  When you are in the boat and someone else is skiing, pay
	CLOSE attention to the lesson being given by the instructor.  If
	the student is less advanced than you, you might be able to pick
	up some tips for yourself.  If the student is more advanced, you
	could pick up some tips you could apply later on, or help a friend
	back home with.  I taught two close friends of mine over the summer
	how to barefoot.  If it hadn't been for the attention I gave the
	instructors at BI, that wouldn't have been possible.  Be alert, and
	be a mental spounge.

	Even though the school was closed at 5:00, at BI, Mike and Nick will
	ski with you for as long as you want.  If it's 4:55, and you've
	some strength left in you and are working hard on something, they'll
	continue.  They want to see you learn just as much as you want to!
	At BI in Florida last December, we skied till almost 6:00!  We had
	an enthusiastic boat of skiers!

	I hope some of this helps and I think that guide will answer even
	more questions.

	Good luck and have a great ski school experience!  You'll love it!

	-ric.

    Two other schools I've had experience with (in adition to B.I.) were
    McCormicks and Ski Holidays.
      McCormick's is geared more for the competition skier_in_training as
    they have 3 man-made ski lakes (good conditions) are in a remote
    location, (not much else to do other than ski-no distractions) and I
    felt, used tactics to "push" you to improvement. (rather than "help"
    you to improvement.)  I went as a "drop-in" looking to ski the course
    and have a good time as I was on a business trip. What I got was yelled
    at for not having the correct position, form, etc.. (hey, it was the
    "off" season, right? :^)  I didn't care to much for their Magnum Skier
    boats either. (rooster tail was hitting me in the waist at 15-off)
    again, it's a good school if your a competitor in training and want do
    dedicate some time for improvement.
    
    Ski Holidays (as the name implies) is much more laid back, is on a
    semi-private lake and they had the attitude, "what do you want to do"
    and give as much (or as little) advice as you want. It is just outside
    of Disney World so it was real convienient. They also have a slalom
    course, a couple of Nautiques and give parasail rides. FWIW.
    
    A couple of schools that I've heard good things about are The Christian
    Family Ski School and Benzel Skiing Center, but I don't have any first
    hand experience with them.  They seem to be well equiped, and well
    rounded, catering to all abilities.
    
    Again, a few more questions you have to ask youself, (and Roger's
    directory and a few phone calls could answer);
    What do you want to work on or learn?
    What type of Skiboat do you want to use (and does it matter)
    Location and cost (and does it matter)
    On site accomodations (and does it matter)
    Other activities available (on site and locally)
    Oh yeh, AVAILABILITY (February is usually a busy month - you did say
    February, right?)
    
    And, oh yes, Everything that Ric and Roger sayed about Barefoot
    Int'l... but they really cater to the barefooter, yet were very
    accommodating when we wanted to "stick" ski.
    
    Good luck in your search,
    Doug  (I wish I had such tough decisions :^)
    

    	I was very happy with the instruction from Bill Peterson's
    along with the accommodations. My only complaint, and this was
    3 years ago, was a shortage of equipment, like wetsuits for
    instance....

    Rick

    
    
    Roger,
    
    	I did receive the book.  Thank you.  I am looking into calling 
    	some schools for more info.
    
    	But...
    
    	How do they instruct you while they are driving?  I thought
    	there would have to be two instructors per boat.
    
    
    	Allen
    

re                       <<< Note 768.12 by KYOA::CAPALDI >>>
>                             -< two per boat???? >-
    
>    	How do they instruct you while they are driving?  I thought
>    	there would have to be two instructors per boat.

	Driver and spotter (required).  "Spotter"  is also instructor.

	Beside the boat, with a boom - on a tournament boat the 
observer's seat faces the right way for this.

	Yeah, we gotta boom - wanna play ?

	R

	At BI, the instructors drive and instruct at the same time.  We
	ski in narrow water ways with no other boats.  They don't seem
	to have a problem holding the boat on course and giving
	instruction at the same time.  It works out quite well actually.
	When you're next to the boat on the boom, they can look directly
	at you.  When you're doing long-line, they use mirrors.  I don't
	know how other schools do it...

	Have fun!

	-ric.

RE: .12

My experience with attending a ski school is limited to Barefoot International,
where most of the learning occurs on the boom, which is right off the side of
the boat, so that the driver can also instruct with minimal loss of
concentration on where he's towing you.  With long line stuff (both barefoot and
"stick" skiing) I would imagine you'd need a second instructor.  I don't have
first-hand experience with this.  Others who have been to such a school can tell
you how it's done at those schools.

...Roger...

              
    While vacationing in Florida a couple of years back, me and
    my sister stopped in at Ski Holiday for a ski lesson.  There
    was only one instructor in the boat, he instructed us before
    we got in the water, then watched us in the rearview mirror
    when we took our run.  After our runs, he critiqued us and gave
    more instructions, then back into the water.
    
    This was only a one hour lesson, most ski schools don't
    operate this way.  
    
    As for the Advil advice, I think the barefooters need
    painkillers as there isn't a whole lot you can do to get
    "yo feets" in shape for a week of footin'.  You can cheat
    and wear tennies (tennis shoes), but I'm sure the die-hards
    would rather pop some asperin than resort to such wimpiness!  :)
    
    But, if you are planning on a week of slalom skiing and
    would like to stay somewhat painfree, working out at the
    gym before your trip is going to help.  Cycling and weight
    training will help prevent sore muscles, you can even
    take your ski rope with you to the gym and work out with
    it (recommended by Water Ski Magazine).
    
    Jeanne
            

	Actually Jeanne, when I take Advil along, it's for the headaches
	that result from slapping my head and the back of my neck on the
	water.  The pain on the bottom of me feet subsides once my run is
	done...hmmmmm, I wonder what would happen if I took Advil before
	hand, or maybe a shot of cortisone in the old arches would do the
	trick...YOUCH!

	-ric.  :-)

    
    Would anyone know how I could find out the *exact* date for
    the Michelob Dry WS Tour that comes to Orlando in
    April.  I'm trying to plan my trip to ski school around
    those dates.
    
    Or should I call and ask Andy Mapple?!  :>)
    
    Jeanne
    
    

AWSA Membership Services  -  1-800-533-AWSA (that's 1-800-533-2972)

"Membership registration, tournament and clinic schedules, club and ski school
listings, sanction procedures."

...Roger...

    Thanks for the number RG!
    
    AWSA didn't have the schedule, but they gave me the PAWS #
    to call and those people had the 1991 tour schedule.
    
    The tournament will be held at Lake Lawne in Barnette Park,
    Orlando with the semi's on April 13th, and the finals the
    following day.  
    

    Since the 'newest' note is almost 5 years old regarding water ski
    schools, I thought I'd see if folks have any recent experiences or
    recommendations.  
    
    I'm thinking about doing a ski school late February/early March time
    frame in Florida.  My intent would be to focus entirely on slalom, with
    a goal of consistently completing the course at 15 (MAYBE 22) off. It's
    possible, in a moment of weakness, and if Celeste isn't around, I'd try 
    barefootin' from the boom.
    
    Anyone got any recent experience with schools focusing on slalom? Anyone
    else thinking of a refresher course this winter?
    
    Dave

    
Dave,

	I was very happy with Peterson's ski school. Although this is
somewhat dated information, I have no doubt that Bill still offers the
same level of instruction he did back in '87. They had 2 instructors per
boat and 3-5 students. This mix worked quite well. Peterson's is located
in Windermere which is pretty handy to Orlando. Back in '87 they had
a couple of complex-type apartments for accomodations and arrangements
could be made for couples to have their own bedroom.

	The reference to Hazelwood's that I made in a previous note was
about the fact that Mike allowed what Doug called "drop-ins". This
practice of allowing people to walk in off the street without a
reservation reduced our group's time on the water significantly (and pissed
us off too!). Mike Hazelwood did adjust the prices because of this, but
I certainly would have liked the instruction time better than the discount
rate.

Rick

ps. In 1987 I had just learned how to get up on one ski!

pss. A Fla trip has been hinted about at my household as well....

    Based on how well I ski in the early spring, I would give thought to
    half day lessons, perhaps a 5 day week. Something around the Orlando
    area. I simply don't have the stamina that early in the season after 
    such a long respite. Forearms, legs and back would get trashed too fast 
    in a full day lesson to make anything but two days reasonable. 
    
    Based on the single day lessons I've taken in the past (barefooting), a
    six person rotation isn't enough come the late afternoon. The mental
    capacity is there, but the brain won't connect with the muscles. 
    
    I'd prefer terms like "Mickey Mouse" and "Goofy" to be used after the ski 
    lesson is over. A couple of Motrin, a walk around Disney/MGM, one of
    them happy hour specials from Paradise Island, and bed!
    
    Sounds great! Count me out!!
    
    ~jeff

Jeff,
	Boy can I relate.  The first time we hit the lake last season, was one
of the few really calm, mirror like conditions.  We skied till we dropped....
which didn't take much. For the next week my forearms were so sore I couldn't
even cut butter with a sharp knife without feeling the pain.  I became an advil
junkie that month.  Perhaps Paradise Island offers a better pain killer :*).

Rick, I've heard a couple others recommend Peterson's.  I wonder if they still
do 2 instructors per boat.  Seems like the better way to get 'instructed.'
Guess I'll include them on the short list for current catalog and pricing.

	The new ski came - O'Brien Rumor Comp.  The ride on Doug's Pro convinced
me a ski with a little more foregiveness was preferable.  What could be better
than taking a lesson, on a new ski, after 4 months of inactivity?  Do they have
masseuses at any of these ski schools?

Dave