Conference vicki::boats

After all that, was there anytime to enjoy the music? Doesn't sound like a trip
you'll be repeating next year? I've discvored myself that most "events" aren't
worth the hassle anymore. Whether associated with boating or not.

john

    Re: 0
    
    Reminds me of a typical day out at mid-bank, anchored
    in the middle of the tuna-fleet....a school of tuna
    comes by and all h*ll breaks out!
    
    

RE:>>I am now formally on the side of those who call for compulsory boating 
   >>skills testing and skipper's licenses.


Welcome to the club Ray, sounds like you had a fun day!  I was going to put
in a note myself about the guy who almost ran us down up at Lake Winnipesaukee
10 days ago.  We were on the lake on a Friday, and got caught in a rainstorm
several miles from where we had launched.  We headed straight back, but had
to limit speed to about 8 mph since we had a very young baby on board and my
boat is only 17'.

We were directly between Governor's Island and the Witches, headed toward Smith
Cove, when my wife suddenly yelled to watch out on the left.  A guy in a large
Carver (26-30') came up behind us, passed about 25' on the left at ~25mph, and
then immediately cut across in front of us.  I had to pull back on the throttle
and steer hard right to avoid a collision, then his 2-3' wake nearly caused my
boat to flip.  The guy just continued on his way like I wasn't even there. At
this point the lake absolutely deserted due to the rain, we were the only 2
boats in the area.

Eventually he changed course and cut back across my path, close enough that
I was able to speed up and catch up to him.  He stopped and wanted to know
what the problem was.  After I yelled at him about almost running us down and
the fact that as the overtaking vessel he had to give way, he said he was sorry
and didn't mean to come so close, but offered no reason as to why it happened.

Either way, the guy is either careless or incompetent.  If it's incompetence,
maybe a mandatory class will help straighten guys like him out.  If it's
carelessness, mandatory licensing will at least give the police the authority
to get this guy off the water if his antics continue.  But more likely, it will
make him wake up when he realizes that he won't be able to continue to drive
his expensive boat if he doesn't get his act together.  This brings up another
point - many of the worst offenders at Lake Winnie are *not* young kids in
fast boats, but older men driving large boats.  Apparently their financial
success allows them to just go out and buy big boats, without going through
the normal learning curve and experience in smaller boats as most of us do.  

In this case, I got the guy's bow number and gave it to the marine patrol.  They
told me that unless an officer sees the infraction, the only thing they can do
is talk to him about it.  When I left the office they were radioing his number
out to the boats on patrol.

Rick W.

    
    
    Sounds exactly what I experienced watching the 4th of July Fireworks
    and concert at Colt State Park two years ago- the only fun that day was
    watching the ricket scientists in the boat next two firing bottle
    rockets into the crowd onshore- a little accident(I think one them's
    breath caught on fire) and the whole interior of their boat was
    smoking.
    
     They couldn't find their fire extinguisher. Since they had dropped
    their anchor over mine, snarled the rode and achored way too close(they
    gave ME h**l qwhen the wind turned and the boats started swinging into
    each other- even though I'd been there for two hours when they dropped
    a hook.
    
      I rteminded them of the fine vocabulary of 4 letter words they used
    when their boat swung into mine- refused them an extinguisher and
    watche d while they frantically pured salt water all over that 
    fancy interior (I did have two extinguishers at the ready and the
    smoldering was nowhere near the engine).If things got too dicy, was
    willing to help- most of the other boaters got the heck out of there-
    probablt a wise thing to do with an unknown amount of pyrotechics on
    board- I didn' really want to get anywhere near that boat with a fire,
    fireworks, and a couple of drunks.
    
     I was prepared to go over if the fire got out of control and those
    two clowns didn't have enough sense to go over the side, but I wasn't
    about to place my boat at risk.
    
     They finally got the fire out and apparently caused some kind opf
    short because the engine wouldn't turn over- I left when the local
    police were asking "how did the fire start?"
    
    I was totally amazed at the incompetence and arrogance of a lot of these
    boaters- I saw all the same things mentioned in .0-
    That evening convinced me that some mandatory education and
    qualification assurance is needed on the water. If.0 is first in line
    for manadatory testing, I Guess I'll have to settle for second.
    
    

I like to go anchor off Ft Adams for the Newport Jazz and Folk (done it four 
years,  but not this year),   but you do see _everything_ from the boating 
world there,  from some real nice and amazing boat handling to some ignorance 
that exceeds belief.  I've watched a ~23 foot cat anchor under sail so smoothly 
and a ~60 footer power into a raft so smoothly,  and then some stories that 
exceed anything in .0 for stupidity.

Having to push five boats off your bow is about normal.  And having someone
lift your anchor off the bottom is about 50% odds per day.


Phil

    Re All,
    	 I hate to say it, but do you really think Boating Licenses are
    going to solve the problem? Drive the roads of Massachusetts with
    all those "Licensed Drivers". Just leave any sporting event or concert
    by car and you run into the same B.S.. I don't need to pay another
    fee for something with no end result. The $40 dollars I pay for a
    drivers license doesn't seem to be doing anything.

    Rich

RE: 744.6 by JUPITR::NEAL

>> do you really think Boating Licenses are going to solve the problem?
>> Drive the roads of Massachusetts with all those "Licensed Drivers".

What you're failing to take into account Rich, is what the roads would 
be like if licenses *weren't* required to drive a car.  As bad as they 
are, you're assuming the roads would be no worse if drivers had no fear
of losing their privilege to drive.  My guess is that you'd have complete
mayhem.  Before you say that licensing does not help on the roads, you
have to consider what it would be like if they weren't required.

This is the situation on the water.  Unless you kill someone, the police
are almost POWERLESS to keep you off the water.  I don't understand why
no one argues whether the state has a right to make sure you know what
a stop sign or red light means before letting you drive a car, but so 
many people argue that the state has no right to make sure you know what
to do in a similar situation in a boat.  Sure, having to learn the rules 
and get a license is an infringement on your "God-given-right" to drive 
a boat, but *in my opinion*, my "right" not to get killed, injured, or 
have my boat damaged by some yahoo/idiot is more important.

Hmmm, this is turning into another licensing debate, maybe we'll have to
move this stuff to the existing topic...

off my soapbox,
Rick W.

    
    	Well I can't miss out on a good licensing debate!
    
    	The more activity I witness on the water, the more I am inclined
    to agree with mandatory education. This is a difficult decision for
    me since I'm always the first one the tell the Gov't to stay the
    hell out of my business.
    
    	Just this past weekend I witnessed two prime examples.
    
    	1) I'm navigating in a northerly direction about 200 feet
    from shore. Another boat is headed south to my left. The guy
    continues on a slight curve his left in front of me (rather than
    steering straight ahead or slightly to his right) then stops
    the boat and yells at me. Who do you think was wrong?
    
    	2) Saturday night a rowboat was returning from a drinking
    party on an uninhabited island. The rowboat with 5 passengers
    and several cases of beer did NOT HAVE ANY LIGHTS. It was struck
    by a power boat (not me - picture fist knocking on head). The
    rowboat passengers were very lucky that they got away with only
    minor injuries.
    
    	Rick W. brings up a very good point.... I think the roads would be
    like a scene from "Road Warrior" if no eduction/enforcement existed.
    In the meantime the waterways are becoming the sequel; "Lake Warrior".
    
    	Rick

    
    Re .7 

    There are already rules/laws of the Water Ways. Why not enforce
    them? If you screw up you pay the fine. Not having a license doesn't
    seem to scare too many people that I read about in the paper. Must 
    be at least 10 a week caught in my area for "Driving With Out a
    License". Its been taken away, but they keep driving. Never mind the 
    one who don't get caught. 

    This obviously is my own opinion, and yes there are major bone heads
    out there. I just cant recall the last time a saw law enforcement
    on the water.
     
    
    Rich

    As i see it there is no process at all today. Want a boat,
    got the bucks, here's the keys. 
    
    The cost of licensing would almost be prohibitive, if it
    were similar to a "drivers license".
    
    I'm suggesting the following:  (in this specific order)
    
     You must attend an approved Boating Course, which covers
       the necessities + the rules of the road. You will on compeletion
       recieve a certificate of completion, and you will sign a
       statement, that says you understood what you were told,
       and will comply. The certificate is good for life.
    
    
    This certificate must be presented to:
    
    The Boat Dealer for purchase.
    
    The Coast Guard for documentation.
    
    The State for registration.
    
    Your insurance co.
    
    
    If you fail to obey the rules, you get a citation.
    
    We can go on from here, but i think the message is clear.
    
    Personally i've had enough of these jerks, you've seen
    them, we really need to do something about this mess....
    
    
    JIm
    
    
    

One problem is that things are seldom as obviously right/wrong on the water as
they are in the classroom. I've taken the USPS safety course and passed the 
final test with an almost perfect score. I've read a great deal of my Chapman's.
I am no expert, but am at least aware of the rules. However a couple of examples
in this note, given as evidence that others need to have safety courses taught 
them. shows me that I have more to learn (since I don't know the answers) and
that possibly the writers do too.

1. Refusing aid. I can't remember the circumstances under which this allowed.
I would have felt the same way as the writer did, but since I wouldn't have been
able to remember under what conditions I could have refused aid, I probably 
would have done it, as soon as I radioed the authorities that they may want to
check the situation.

2. Boat heading north, boat heading south. From the description it sounds as if
the boats were approaching each other in a head on fashion where neither boat 
has the right of way, both captains may have been going "straight" from their
viewpoint. It is up to both captains to change course if necessasry to avoid
collision. The slight curve described for the south running boat, and the use
of opposite heading directions doesn't describe a crossing situation, but 
imply to me a head on one. Again, since my memory is not perfect I probably
would have changed course just to make sure I wasn't breaking the rules.

john

    
    
    reply to .11
    
     I couldn't agree with the author of .11 more- I was the one who
    "refused aid" to to drunks who gottheir interior smoldering from firing
    rockets (fireworks kind) into a crowd onshore and then couldn't find
    thier fire extinguisher. Since it wasn't(my judgement hger) a bona fide
    emergency, and after the previos hassle from these characters, I
    figured they could either sobre up and find their own fire extinguisher
    or put water on the fire(which they  did). In my estimation, I wouldn't
    call it an emergency, just an incident. It was the first time in almost
    35 years of being in boats theat I have ever refused to help- but
    enough was enough. I figured if their lives weren't inimminent danger,
    their d*****ed boat could burn to the waterline!
    
     �ve towed boats all over Naragannsett and Raritan Bays and Long Island
    sound. Loaned Gas, pumps, even a battery to help people out.
    
     I can forgive ignorance, but not arrogance- I think we all agree that
    education is in order. Some states, Fla is one, I believe have
    mandatory requirements for having a Boating safety course certificate
    to operate a boat. In Rhode Island, anyone under 16 must have passed a
    boating safety course.More states are getting concerned , and yes,
    there are thise that feel "their rights are being threatened" if they
    must show they are competent and capable of operating boat.
    
     I have a new daughter and law and son in law who are anxious to
    operate my boat along with their spouses.I won't let them operate the
    boat untilthey have taken the courses. Then they can start getting the
    experience they will need to get to be good operators.
    
     WE Baoters need to lobby with our state and federal represenattives to
    get the funds for increased patrols and law enforcement.
    UNfortunately too many states look at boating fees as revenue
    enhancement without a lot of thought to the enforcement aspects.
    I think we serious boaters all agree there is a problem and it's
    getting worse- it's time we got on our representatives and start
    lobbying for increased education,legislation to ensure safety and
    training,and enforcement.
    
    Time to get off my soapbox
    
     Dick
    

I am not in a position to question what you did, or what your feelings were, 
Dick. I was only pointing out that I have taken a safety course, I have passed 
the test, I have read material, and yet after all that my memory doesn't help me
on the details on this point. So even though I am in favor of education for all 
boaters, it shouldn't be assumed that with education everyone will suddenly know
and obey every rule and law. People will still forget and still screw up, and we
must always be prepared for that.

On the other hand I am at least aware of a requirement to render aid, so I was
saying that lacking information to the contrary I think that I (not saying "you
should have") would have worried over the point that I was asked for aid. I 
might think that a court would decide that, even with alcohol in his system, the
skipper of the other boat was in a better postion to determine their danger than
I was, and that my emotions shouldn't allow harm to come to person or property.
Like I said I don't know. This isn't mean to be a debate over your actions, but
an example of how at least this person needs to continue to learn.

john

    Maine Boat Law:  If you are in an accident, you must stop and exchange
    information.  In addition, you must render whatever aid you can without
    putting your boat or passengers in danger.  Plus you have to report it. 
    The above is if you are in the accident.  If you come upon an accident
    I would imagine that the requirement that you render aid would be less
    stringent.
    
    It would be easy for me to decide that I could not approach this guy
    without putting my boat and passengers in considerable danger.
    
    

    In re .11, and an earlier note, when approaching head to head, normally
    vessels are required to pass port to port.  Any turns should be made
    smartly so as to announce intent. The fellow who drifted over to
    present his port side to an approaching vessel was in violation of
    COLREGS, and did not become the stand on vessel by so doing.
    
    J