Conference vicki::boats

    your asking a very good question.
    
    in my opinion i don't think there is yet a life expectancy for 
    a glass boat. the appearance will be the first to deteriorate,
    that is look dull, won't take a shine. but today there are many
    ways to fix that, from do it yourself to professional jobs.
    Other items are of course the engines, wiring, steering, 
    hardware, (lights, switches, windshield etc.) instrumentation
    
    and the list goes on.
    
    What size boat are we talking about???????
    
    It really makes a diffence in how to answer your question......
    
    JIm.

Good topic!

I don't think you can really define the lifespan of a fiberglass boat.  It
depends completely on the conditions it's used and stored in, and how well
it's built and maintained.  

A boat that's used strictly for day trips and stored in a dry place out of 
the sun will last infinitely longer than one that's left uncovered on a mooring
all season.  The weather will deteriorate the gelcoat to the point nothing
short of a fresh paint job will make it look good again.  But more important 
than cosmetic deterioration of the gelcoat are blisters and wood rot.  

Blisters occur mostly on boats which are left in the water for extended 
periods, and some boats only 2 or 3 years old are having problems with them.
It's doubtful that a 3 year old boat that's having blistering problems will
still be in service when it's 20 years old.  This topic has been covered 
elsewhere in this conference and over in the sa*ling conference.

Wood rot is probably the cause of most older fiberglass being trashed.  Don't
forget that most fiberglass boats *do* have a significant amount of wood in
them and therefore are not immune to rot.  And of course the wood provides a
good portion of the strength in the floor and transom.  When the wood is gone
you've got an awfully flexible and unseaworthy boat. If you look around in 
this conference you'll find several discussions regarding boats with rotting
transoms and floor stringers.   

Now to more specifically answer your question, it's doubtful that the seller 
of any fiberglass boat is going to let you bore holes in the hull looking for
signs of rot or damage.  You'll have to use your senses a bit, peek into every
opening and inspection hole you can find, tap, push and pull on the transom.
Look for signs of previous repairs or damage.

Another consideration when looking at 25 year old boats is hull design.  The 
boat may be in great condition, but many of the early fiberglass boats had hull
designs which are very outdated today, and may be tippy, wet, ride rough etc...
Get someone who knows boats to go with you, and try to test drive it in the 
conditions in which you'll be using the boat.

But don't knock yourself out trying to find the "perfect boat", because that 
doesn't exist even if you're buying new.  8^)  

Rick W.

  Thanks for the quick replies.

  Here's my situation - 

  I currently use my brother-in-laws boat for salt water fishing.  It is 
a 16 foot Bowman (??maybe??) fiberglass job that is mucho old.  He bought it
second hand 8 years ago and has done nothing to maintain it.  It is put in the
water about 1/2 dozen times a year and stored in the yard for the summer and
garaged for the winter.
  Now the problems...... First I am curious as to how safe this boat might be.
There is no evidence of any cracks, blisters or anything.  It certainly needs
a paint job (oh yeah..the transom is delaminating).  When he bought the boat
it had a humongous Johnson 75 hp engine on it (it was the size of VW bug), but
we now use a slightly newer Johnson 20hp on it.  
  My second problem is that I am tired of the B.S. I have to put up with when
I want to use the boat (it's a loooonngg story). So I would like to pick up
a decent boat (used or new) for around $2K.  I'm not looking for speed, just
something that gets me our there (usually don't go more than 2 miles out) in
less time than it takes to swim there.  So a 14 - 18 foot boat with a 20hp
would be ideal.  I would also like to be able to use it on Quabbin (20hp max).
  I have looked in this conference and the Fishing conference and have seen 
numerous entries like: 1962 Sea Liner with 20hp Merc, Shorelander trailer for
$1500.  Or 14 foot V-boat with 9.9 hp Chrysler (1975)......$1000.  And others..

  I have also seen in the Bass Pro Shops catalog a 16 foot aluminum boat with
a 8 hp motor for $2300.  I have a line on a 30hp engine from a friend so I
could get the boat without the motor for (hopefully) a lot less than $2.3K.
Marine USA in Worcester is a dealer in Tracker so I can check that one out.

  So the whole purpose of this note was to find out the age limit I should look
at as far as glass boats are concerned (what a round-about way of getting there
8^)



                           Jim

    re .3 i would have appreciated if this reply would have been the 
    
    base note.....
    
    JIm

    
      An aluminum boat is probably your best bet in the size you want
    from a strickly "most fishing boat for your money" viewpoint. Aluminum
    boats need even *less* maintenance than fiberglass boats (if that's
    possible), are lighter and thus eaiser to trailer, ultra-violet
    from the sun won't bother them and since they use much less wood than 
    a fiberglass boat - it's probably easier to determine their condition. 

      On the negative side, they're usually noisier and can't be made
    in some of the more intricate shapes that are found on some fiberglass
    boats. Some of those "intricate" shapes can help in seaworthiness.
    Some people think they look bad because of the rivits (I don't),
    but a good one will last almost forever.
    
      The only thing you have to be a little more careful of is corrosion
    if the boat is going to spend a significant part of life in the
    water (ie. moored or at a slip).
    
    					Kenny

  Re: -.1

  Well I would have put the lengthy explanation as my base note but I figured
that a general discussion about the life expectancy of fiberglass would be
more usefull to the general readership.  My specific problem of finding a boat
would be more suited to a 'help me choose a boat' topic.

  From reading some of the other notes it would appear that just like cars, 
different materials and quality of materials is used in different boats.  
Without getting into any manufacturer bashing, is there a specific make or
design that is built better than others?  For example..manufacturer X uses
.6 oz glass cloth to cover the frame of their boats while manufacturer Y uses
2 oz cloth.  So the Y boat should last longer.



                            Thanks,


                                  Jim  (who, as you might have guessed, knows
                                        very little about boat construction)

    
    
      From where you said you will be taking the boat I ass-u-me that
    you are going fishing in the ocean and may go out up to 5 miles.
    With that in mind I can offer the following boats as being well
    made and suitable for the types of fishing you have in mind.
    
      	Aquasport
    	Mako
    	Grady White
    	ProLine
    	Sea Ray
    	
      These brands are all well built and have many (if not most) models
    set up *just* for fishing. They may not all build boats in the 17'
    range (I doubt you'll find one smaller), but I can say that these
    boats are all seaworthy, well built, and worth the money (If you
    have enough - some of these can be pricey). If these are not maintained
    well, the topsides will be faded, some gear may be in disrepair,
    but the hulls, esp. the structure of the hulls, should hold up for
    a very long time.
    
    					Kenny

    No disagreement with .7, but it's unusual to see a list of 5 good boats
    that meet these requirments without seeing the famous (and priced
    accordingly) Boston Whaler.
    
    It's almost a standard.
    
    /brett

    My husband and I owned an aluminum boat, 14 ft, I think it was a Sea
    Nymph, but anyway, for the ocean it was terrible.  Because it was a
    V hull design, it rocked and was actually quite unstable in the ocean.
    
    We now own a fiberglass tri-hull (Sears, Gamefisher) and find that it
    has the stability we were looking for.  We have brought it out 3 miles
    and found it to be quite satifactory.  Mind you, it is not a Whaler,
    but we like to consider it the poor mans version.  
    
    Not to try and sell you on Sears, but more to sell you on the tri-hull
    design. 
    
    Also, our boat is now 4+ years old and is beginning to develop minor 
    surface cracks.  Mostly in places the glass is curved alot, like the
    hand rail along the edge, but not anywhere structural.  We take good
    care of our boat.  I would be reluctant to buy a second hand fiberglass
    boat unless I knew the previous owner.    
    
    I really enjoy our 14ft fiberglass boat, and recommend it as a first
    boat.  It will only hold up to a 25 hp motor.  I know Sears makes a
    16ft in the same design, but not sure what size motor it takes.  
                                          
    Wendy   

    I also owned a Sea Nymph 14', with a 25 hp Evinrude, but I didn't
    feel that it was overly tippy for the style hull.  Remember, those
    trihulls are stable sitting still, but generally won't cut through
    a chop as smoothly.  In the 14' size, aluminum boats are so light,
    that standing up on one isn't recommended, as your body weight will
    tend to throw the boat around.  
    
    Aluminum open boats, because they are lighter, draw less water,
    and are great for smaller waters.
    
    Carl
    

    
      Tippyness or lack of it is a somewhat subjective opinion. There should
    be no question that a 14' tri-hull is less tippy than a 14' V-hull.
    That does NOT mean that Sears boats are great and Sea Nymphs are
    not. One thing for SURE is that if I was out in the ocean and it
    became choppy (what constitutes choppy *also* depends on your viewpoint
    - 2-3' waves can be pretty choppy in a 14' boat) I would MUCH rather
    be in a V-hull boat than a tri-hull. However, in protected waters
    a tri hull will be much more comfortable to be in. Tri-hulled boats
    are quite stable, but do NOT handle rough water well at all when
    compared to V-hulled boats; V-hulled boats rock more.
    
      I was looking at Sea Nymphs at Gauch Bros. and I was impressed
    that they seemed to be very solidly constructed. In the 16' size
    I saw, they would probably be quite satisfactory for near-shore
    fishing. (and maybe not so near)

    					Kenny

    Also in the past Sea Nymph had two lines in the medium to larger sizes,
    a standard duty line and a heavy duty line that looks like it would be
    quite strong.
    
    john

Well we've gotten off the fiberglass topic, but I guess we pretty much 
determined that with proper care the boat will last just about forever.


  Now that that is out of the way I can get off the topic too 8^)


  I think that what I am going to look for is a 14' aluminum V-hull.

  My reasons:

      The aluminum is lighter
      The V-hull cuts through rough water better
      My family has only owned V-hulls so I am very comfortable with them
      The price of an aluminum V-hull is lower
      I can't afford a new car right now so I have to make due with my
        (don't get sick everyone) Escort.
      The weight of the Tracker v-14 is 370 pounds.  Add a couple hundred for
         the trailer and it still comes out way below the max towing weight
         of 1000 pounds.  I don't like to leave the motor on the boat when
         towing.  I usually put it in the trunk, so that weight is not part
         of the towing weight.
      I can get a Tracker V-14 from Marine USA for $1345.00  This is the price
         I got over the phone without doing any dealing.  The price does not
         include a motor or trailer.  I can pick up a used motor for a lot
         less than what they want for a new one.
      

    If the motor quits I can always paddle back or get a tow.  If the transom
    drops off the boat I have to swim home and loose all my gear.  So a sound
    boat is #1 on my list with a good motor #2.

     Does any of this make sense??  If not, I plead mental exhaustion since
it's Friday.  8^)




                               Jim


  P.S.  Thanks to everyone for their inputs!!     

      Your decision sounds perfectly sensible and reasonably thought out.
    
    	"You buy what you can afford, to do what you want to do"

    One thing you DON'T want to do is to buy a boat and find out afterward
    that your car won't tow it!
    
    I think Tracker boats are reasonably well made, and for the money,
    you should get a lot of use out of yours. You *may* want to try
    leaving the motor on the boat when trailering. It will NOT make
    it any easier for your car if you put it in the trunk, and it will
    save you effort that you just may not need to expend. If you're
    concerned about trailering taking it's toll on the transom with
    that weight there, yeah, maybe, but I think it would take a LOT
    of trailering over fairly rough roads before there would even be
    a *chance* of the transom becoming weakened. (the motor you will
    have on it is just not *that* heavy)
    
     		 Good luck - maybe we'll see you out there!!

    				Kenny

RE: Note 695.13   

>>      The weight of the Tracker v-14 is 370 pounds.  Add a couple hundred for
>>       the trailer and it still comes out way below the max towing weight
>>       of 1000 pounds.  I don't like to leave the motor on the boat when
>>       towing.  I usually put it in the trunk, so that weight is not part
>>       of the towing weight.

This will actually have more of a negative towing effect on a small car like 
an Escort than if you leave the motor on the transom.  The reason being, with
the motor on the transom the tongue weight is actually *lightened*.  With the
motor in the trunk you've increased the trailer tongue weight *and* added an 
extra 100 pounds or so to the trunk of the car.  Add a few passengers and this
will cause the Escort to drag its tail, an unsafe condition for towing.

Also, besides the tow rating there is the "Gross Combined Weight Rating" (GCWR)
of vehicle, trailer, passengers, gear, etc.   In other words, there ain't no 
free lunch.  The weight of the motor doesn't disappear just because it's in the
car's trunk.  As Kenny said, leave it on the transom and save yourself the 
trouble of moving it around.

Rick W.

  After reading your comments I have to agree that leaving the motor on the
boat makes a lot more sense than what I had planned.
  I'll let everyone know what I end up with....when I end up with it. 8^)



     Thanks again,


                       Jim

    A few bumps with the motor weight on the transom is NOTHING compared
    to the 10-40 hp in a chop that the transom has to put up with in
    the water.
    
    Carl

    I trailer a few boats a few years back. As for the motor on the
    transom i agree leave it there.
    
    When you trailer, leave the motor up, in addition put a block
    of wood between the 2 parts of the motor motor mount, (you'll
    see the space when you raise it) this will absorb most of the
    shock from road bumps, the motor bracket (in my opinion
    the motor bracket wasn't designed to take this abuse)
    when the wood looks worn down, get another one..
    
    JIm.
    

    
    The most recent discussion of faded fiberglass and Auri has been
    moved to note 363, the "faded fiberglass" topic.
    
    Rick W.
    co-mod