Conference vicki::boats

Steve,
That figure of 850 lbs. sounds a bit low.  Even if the Starcraft is aluminum,
that sounds like dry weight *without motor*.  Add in about 300 lbs. for the
motor, 2-300 lbs for fuel, 500lbs. for passengers, 200 pounds for ice, anchor,
and miscellaneous fishing gear, and well, you get the idea.  Before you know 
it you're looking at close to 2000 lbs.  

A 60hp Mercury may push that rig up to a *top speed* of 30, but I doubt it
will cruise at 30.  If you want a cruise speed of 30, you're going to need a
motor that is capable of running 35-40 mph top speed.  Otherwise, you'll be 
operating at WOT to maintain 30, and the motor will self destruct before its
time.  Also,if you do take the boat out 10-20 miles as you plan, you'll want
some reserve speed capability, because you *will* someday have to outrun a 
weather front that's heading your way.

Don't rely on the salesman's advice.  The biggest mistake most people make
with their first boat is not buying enough power.  And if there's not enough
power, it's you that has to live with it, not the salesman.  For your boat 
and intended use, something in the area of 90 hp sounds more appropriate 
to me.  Comments?

Rick W.

    My first boat was a 16 foot aluminum hull with a 45 merc. This was
    a while ago, but I seem to remember the whole rig, with motor and
    trailer, was about 1200 pounds. I loved it so much I kept it for
    seven years, and I could never understand why easily trailerable,
    highly maneauverable aluminum boats aren't more popular than they
    are. I dumped that thing in every puddle from Winnepesaukee to the
    south shore of Long Island. 
    
    Anyway, I never felt that the boat was overpowered, but the only
    time I really missed more power was the once or twice I tried to
    pull a water skier. I never had a speedo or really clocked it, but
    I ran about the same speed as most large cruisers, which generally
    cruise at about 18 knots. Most of my usage was in salt water, where
    speed is more limited by sea conditions and level of personal masochism
    than by power, especially in a boat that small and light. On lakes
    I was just as happy to take it slow and enjoy the scenery. So, as
    in most other things in boating, the issue boils down to: what are
    your priorities? The 60 will put your boat up on a plane quite nicely
    and probably let you cruise in the low twenties. Something more
    will cost more, weigh more, use more fuel, and move you faster.
    Speed increases as the square of power, so a 90 will move you about
    20% faster than a 60. Sometimes. Depending on sea state. If you
    ever want to pull a skier, get as much power as she'll take.
                                                    TOM

    
      I have been on both sides of this problem (I have had boats which
    were underpowered and ones which had PLENTY :^) of power, so I think
    I can give some valid advice based upon some of my experiences.
    
    In this case there are 2 main points:
    
    1. Myth #1 a larger engine will use up MUCH more fuel. While it
    is true that a larger engine CAN use more fuel per HOUR, the actual
    miles covered per gallon of fuel used (on the same boat) will be
    almost the same. At the same speeds, the larger engine *could* actually
    use LESS fuel, since the smaller engine would have to work harder
    to move a given boat at the same speed. It must also be pointed
    out that as you push an engine harder it becomes less efficient.
    (the last 1/4 throttle uses almost 1/2 more fuel - roughly)
    
    2. To buy a larger engine now would not cost close to what it would
    cost to trade up to a larger engine later. AND, it is quite possible
    that the larger engine would come with more/better features for
    it's price - that were either optional or not obtainable on the
    smaller engine. Larger alternator, Power tilt, warning/engine
    protection features, etc. It may (probably would) last longer since
    it didn't have to work as hard, increase the boat's
    resale value AND, most important, the appeal of your boat to a
    prospective buyer. (face it, the average person WANTS power in his
    powerboat!)
    
      While I think that the 60 will push that boat *ok* (not great)
    you may want to look into a little more power (80-90) and see how
    much it would REALLY cost.
    
    					Kenny

	A friend of mine has an 18' Aluminum boat and I believe he powers 
it with 70hp. He is very satisfied with the performance.
	You didn't mention the manufacturers recommended max hp but if I 
were to make the decision for myself I'd consider that, among other things. 
I don't think I'd feel like I have to max it out but I would like to be 
within 20% of max. 
	You do pay for extra horses but not nearly as dearly as you pay for 
under performance.
	Since I do mostly salt water fishing, I don't get open my boat up all 
that often but when I do I love it.
Regards,
Paul

    I guess I should have mentioned that the boat is aluminum (re:.1) and
    the max hp for the boat is 120 (re:.4).
    
    I talked to Freni's this morning. To move from a 60 hp Merc to a 90hp
    Merc the cash differential is $800.
    
    If I am going to spend all this money for the boat in the first place
    I might as well go for more power. As someone mentioned, if you are trying 
    to race back in ahead of a storm, that extra power will be necessary.
    
    Here is the basic package to date:
    
    	1) Starcraft Mariner 180 (18ft) center console aluminum boat
           with aerated livewell with running lights. 17 gallon gas tank.
    	
    	2) 90 hp Mercury outboard with power trim and tilt
    
    	3) Galvanized trailor (Galvanized spoked 14" wheels G70 tires) with spare
    	   tire and rim. Bearing buddies.
    
    	4) VHD(?) ship to shore radio and antenna
    
    	5) small illuminated Ritchie compass
    
    	6) Eagle ID fishfinder
    
    	7) one pedestal fishing chair (adjustable height)
    
    	8) Bimini top
     
        9) Coast guard package:
    
    	   a) fire exstinguisher
    	   b) life preservers (I assume they are type III) 
    	   c) small CO2 type air horn
    	   d) anchor and line  ( not sure what type)
    	   e) paddle 
    
    I have never previously owned a boat so I have no idea what `other'
    items I will need for maintenence or operation. Any suggestions in
    this area would be appreciated.
                                                                         
    
    	Possible additions to package:
    
    	1) type II life preservers
    	2) ski tow rings
     	3) engine flush kit
    	4) canvas boat cover
    
    
    	Steve

   It sounds like you're getting a pretty complete package. I bet you are
also getting a first aid kit (that should be part of the CG package).

  Your PFD's will probably be type II, since they are actually cheaper than
most type III's and are more universal. You will probably want to make up a
little toolkit with spare hand tools and sparkplugs at LEAST! There is
another note in here *somewhere* about what people bring for stuff/spares.
You'll also come up with your own things you want to bring - EVERY time you
go out you'll think of something *else* you want to bring along!

  Your boat will probably come with transom rings (also used for skiing).

  For a cover, the type you get will depend on when you want to use it.
If you want to cover the boat while in the water, a fitted *mooring* cover is
best. If you want to cover the boat while in the yard and/or during the
off-season, then one of those blue covers you can get anywhere is just fine
(and cheap). If you will be trailering a lot, and want to cover the boat
*while* you're trailering it, you need a fitted cover MADE FOR TRAILERING!

 For a flush kit, all you need is one of those clamp over the lower unit
Motor-flushers. They are available through most catalog suppliers and probably
most dealers for about $8-$10 MAX.

		Sounds like you're well on you way to happy boating!

					Kenny

    Steve, before you finalize this deal, and not to put a damper
    on your idea. Ask the dealer if Starcraft is still having
    the same problems they had in the past with the seams opening
    up on the 18 ft. mariner. In the past i know (in fact) of 2
    folks who had this problem. Starcraft went way out of their
    way to try and fix them, but could not. I don't care what the
    warranty might be, if there is a slight indication of one,
    buy something else. On the choice of motors i would consider
    a Yammer-Hammer or better known as Yahama.
    
    Thought you'd like to know...
    
    
    Jim

    Steve,
    		- On a slightly different point -
    In many important aspects, I've got a similar boat.  
    In an open 18' motorboat, I'd be rather timid about the prospects of having 
    10 +/- miles between me a reasonable port.  BTW: in some places (cape
    cod for instance, simply being 1mile off shore doesnt mean you have a
    1mile run to port.  Sand bars, reefs, channels, fishtraps etc, etc can 
    frequently mean you have to make substantial changes in your course and 
    sometimes this can mean an unpleasant ride.  I'm not suggesting that you
    cant safely venture out this far but weather, wind, waves, tide and fog 
    can change pretty quickly on the ocean.  Add to the objective factors
    of weather, the possibility of mechanical failure and the physical
    effects of spending a long day on the water, and the possibility of 
    something going wrong is greater than zero.  
    
    Liking a pretty big margin, I stock all the required equipment,
    carry a radio and plot my courses out and back.  I keep a weather radio
    on if there's any question and generally limit trips with the familly
    to pretty well known areas.  
    is an excellent idea

    If you are going to have a lighted compass, the instructor covering the
    related part of the Power Squadron safe boating course my wife and I"
    are currently taking recommeded that the card (the round disk that
    continues to point north as the boat turns around it) be a minimum of a
    three inches. When you need the compass, you need to be able to read it
    easily. Also, if this is your first boat, Get Yourself To Either a CG
    Auxillary, US Power Squadron or Red Cross Safe Boating Course. (note,
    read the caps as slight rais in voice!!!). 
    
    I have been on, in and around boats since my teens over #0 years ago
    and since we have just moved up to a 22 foot sailboat and I wanted my
    WIFE to learn more about what was going on, we enrolled in the PS Safe
    boating course. Guess what, I am surprised at how much I am learning.
    Little things like identifying a "preffered" channel bouy, what a
    mid-channel bouy looks like, how to read "range markers" and quickly
    tell which way to correct if you are off course as well as the
    difference between a bell and a gong or whats the FIRST thing to do if
    you see a fog bank approaching. 
    
    It may be too late to find a course this spring, but keep it in mind
    for next winter. Also good for discount on Insurance. Also look for an
    experience boater to go out with you for a couple of times with the
    specific intent of sharing basic safety with you. I would also limit
    any 'off shore' excursions until after you have had quite a bit of
    water pass under your keel. Oh my, did I start preaching again,?, 
    
    Fred
    

    Going out 10-20 miles out probably would be the rare occasion, if ever.
    What I really needed was a worse case senario. I would not go that far
    out if not accompanied by another (larger) boat.
    
    But, gulp, I put a deposit on it last night. I expect to have it about
    May 12. I hope my wife never finds out how much the boat `really' cost.
    
    
    	Steve

    Is 17 gallons of gas enough with a 90hp outboard?? Seems like not
    enough to me, can you get a larger tank.
    
    Bruce

    
    
    Hi Steve,
    
    	Long time no see.  I have a 17' Boston Whaler with 2-12 gallon
    tanks.  It has a 90hp Evinrude and happily sucks up 3 - 4 gallons
    an hour with no problem.  Of course that's when running fairly hard
    or skiing.  
    	It might be prudent to get an aux six gallon along with charting
    your fuel consumption fairly accurately.  Nothing more embarasing
    than to run out of fuel, especially in the middle of a lake (or
    worse). 
    	Good luck, 
    
    Steve DeLisle
    

    Hi Bruce, Steve
    
    I am stuck with the 17 1/2 gallon tank, there is no option to increase
    its size. I have planned to get a six gallon auxiliary tank, even
    though I don't like the idea of have a tank of gas above deck.
    
    Any recommendations on what type of six gallon tank to get. I suppose
    just a plastic jerry can is not a safe option.
    
    	Steve

    the new tanks are closed. i.e no vent on top like the older.
    
    having a tank on deck shouldn't be a problem. unless your concern
    is just having more junk on deck. Actually i was going to recommend
    2- 6 gal. spares but your concerned about a 6 ga. well,
    
    
    Jim.

    
    Steve,
    
    	I think that there are some pretty eficiently shaped tanks out
    there.  I didn't realize that the new baby has an internal tank.
    Mine has two external 12's and is VERY thirsty.  There must be a
    place that you can stow an extra tank though.
    
    take care,
    Steve