[Search for users]
[Overall Top Noters]
[List of all Conferences]
[Download this site]
| Title: | Powerboats |
| Notice: | Introductions 2 /Classifieds 3 / '97 Ski Season 1267 |
| Moderator: | KWLITY::SUTER |
|
| Created: | Thu May 12 1988 |
| Last Modified: | Wed Jun 04 1997 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 1275 |
| Total number of notes: | 18109 |
573.0. "Another Inflatable Question" by SSGVAX::REDFIELD () Mon Dec 25 1989 20:02
The attached represents a recent set of conversations in the Sailing
Notesfile. That Notesfile is write-locked for another week.
I thought I might pick up this subject in Boats...any interest in
discussing inflatables AGAIN?
The original note & 9 replies are posted as Note .0 in BOATS.
I am posting a new response as well as .1.
Hope all had a Merry Christmas & will have a Happy New Year!
Carl
attachment follows
******************************************************************************
<<< MSCSSE::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SAILING.NOTE;1 >>>
Sailing
Created: 12-MAR-1986 08:48 1414 topics Updated: 22-DEC-1989 11:33
-< for sale and wanted: use note 263 >-
================================================================================
Note 1413.0 Another inflatable question 9 replies
SSGVAX::REDFIELD 46 lines 19-DEC-1989 09:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know there is a lot of data available in the Notesfiles regarding
inflatables. I have some questions that I have found little data about.
First of all my requirements:
- must be capable of surviving constant exposure to the sun
- boat will probably be kept on swim platform
- hard transom for o/b
- primary use is off/on moorings & anchorages
- good quality
I am totally confused by too much of a selection i.e.
AVON 310...seems to be the right size, excellent reputation, but
quite expensive for a wooden floor model $1450
MOTOMAR line...dealer says good brand (also carries AVON), a little
cheaper, same type of material (HYPALON)
ZODIAC...AVON dealer says fabric is lousy (too much PVC), will
not do well in sun. Much cheaper...probably $850.
METZGER...excellent concept, stows small, cheaper $800. Material?
SILLINGER...reputed to be as good as AVON. I can get a deal (last
years model 320GR Rigid Hull for about $1300 ($2400 list). I need
to move quickly on this one.
So...I am confused about the following:
Rigid hull vs wood floor bottom vs inflatable keel tradeoffs.
Fabric tradeoffs hypalon type vs pvc type
Is an Avon 50% better than a Zodiac? Is the price break on the
Sillenger worth going rigid hull? Should I go for complete
collapsability, smallest space with the Metzger?
Your thoughts and opinions welcome as this is the winter that
I plan on getting one and I need to close in on what I want.
thanks
Carl
================================================================================
Note 1413.1 Another inflatable question 1 of 9
DUGGAN::PARKER 12 lines 19-DEC-1989 12:47
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-< inflatable keel for me! >-
And then of course there is the Achilles that has been an excellent
inflatable.
Hyperlon is a better, stronger hull material but exposed on the transom
all year is going to be hard on any material. At the least spray
Armor-all on the hull and at the max put a cover over it.
Rigid bottom inflatables do not offer any savings in either storage
space or weight. They are more stable than a rigid dink and you can put
a larger outboard on them but you pay for this in $$$'s and lbs.
Having had a flat bottomed and a inflatable keel model of the same
dingy I would go with the keel. Better rough water sea keeping, tows
better, no extra weight.
Have no first hand information on the Metzlser.
================================================================================
Note 1413.2 Another inflatable question 2 of 9
SALEM::KLOTZ 57 lines 19-DEC-1989 14:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-< Bombard is nice >-
Carl,
Not being a Sail type I went through a similar exercise in buying
my dink. Spec were:
Good Quality
Store on Swim Platform -- Lots of Sun
Hard Transom for OB
No speed needed - Just Anchor to beach etc.
3 people (Swim Plat/Transom limits size)
Stable to step into
Store/setup easy (in case weather says take it off the platform)
After looking all over I bought a Bombard -- $650 -
after 5 seasons of sun, rocks, & sand it looks great!
This unit is a bit nice in that it has "slats" for a floor -
when set up it is very stable to step into - the bottom is not jelly
like -- yet pull the plugs & it simply rolls up.
It has built in pumps - nice in case you need to stiffen it up or
some kid on the beach unscrews the plugs.
with my 3.5hp air cooled engine it moves right along with 3 people
in it -- indeed I often take 4 of us into the beach. It works
well for exploring the gunk holes; but, is too wet/slow for a 5
mile trek.
As for sun - I put on some Armor All start/mid/end season & it looks
brand new after 5 full seasons of use (stored on the platform all
the time right out in the sun) It is an orange like color - yuk
- but easy for others to see in the anchorages.
BIG TIP --
When you put it on the transom it blocks the name of the boat --
We painted the name on (in the same script as the transom) using
"Fender Cote" 4 seasons ago. After the rocks of Maine & 4 years
of sun it looks so good I wouldn't think of touching it. The
Fender Cote still allows me to roll it up for winter storage or
those bad days.
My feeling is - if I had to replace it in a season or so (& I won't)
I still got my monies worth.
If your interested - Hudson's Marine in Newburyport carries them
& there are numerous sizes/styles in either the orange, gray, or
black depending upon the type with soft, slatted or hard w/keel
floors.
Well good luck with the hunt.
Oh - since I'm a member of the Cousteau Soc. & the Dink rolls up
so easy -- I named it the "Collapso"
Take care,
Lou
================================================================================
Note 1413.3 Another inflatable question 3 of 9
SQPUFF::HASKELL 18 lines 19-DEC-1989 14:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now I have an AVON Redcrest with a detachable motor mount. This
little jem is almost 18 years old and still going strong.
I mount a 2.3 hp ob on it and I build my own rigid floor boards
for use when we go on vacation or long weekends.
I tow it behind the boat an a short line to keep the bow well up
out of the water.
When I go home, I just pick it up carry it top the pick-up and take
it home and store it in the basement inflated.
It carries three adults and a pordigous amount of gear at a reasonable
speed to the mooring that is 3/4 mile from the dock.
Gee, I think that it has twice as many years left ahead.
Paul
================================================================================
Note 1413.4 Another inflatable question 4 of 9
WAV14::PARSHLEY 11 lines 19-DEC-1989 17:02
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-< Achilles vs Metzlser >-
I have experince with both Achilles and Metzler. First the Achilles,
Fold down to a nice package and comes with a carrying case. Oars
lock in place so you can't loose them. Flat bottom, bad, get the
inflatable keel. Floor boards are OK.
Metzlser. Inflatable floor is firm, it also keeps your buns away
from the cold water. Removeable transom is nice but not a big plus
except it is thicker than that on the Achilles. One big plus is
the sea cocks, don't have to worry about filling with water during
a big rain. The bow curves up, keeps pretty dry.
================================================================================
Note 1413.5 Another inflatable question 5 of 9
CHEFS::GOUGHP "Pete Gough" 11 lines 20-DEC-1989 11:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have an Avon that is a relative youngster only 4 seasons, my
neighbour at the marina has one he started cruising with 19 years
ago, it is now in its fourth name ie T/T name and he swears by it.
I think that as with many things in the marine world if you buy
a quality product you can expect a long life and high second hand
value should you need to dispose of your asset......
Merry Christmas to one and all.
Pete
================================================================================
Note 1413.6 Another inflatable question 6 of 9
AITG::COUTURE "Abandon shore" 6 lines 20-DEC-1989 12:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-< To Armour All or not to Armour all >-
Re .2
I have not put any Armour All on my inflatable because I read in
Practical Sailor that the silicone in it makes patching difficult,
if not impossible (the glue won't hold). Have you found otherwise?
================================================================================
Note 1413.7 Another inflatable question 7 of 9
FRAGIL::MCBRIDE 13 lines 20-DEC-1989 13:14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-< Can't the Armor All be washed away? >-
Wouldn't you be able to offset the effects of the Armor All by using
some sort of solvent to wash the stuff away? BTW, I was talking to a
person that was using a 15' Zodiac as a work boat and he had nothing
but great things to say about it's quality. His remedy for fixing
holes was to use superglue and a small patch over the damage. He is a
diver that follows the big boats around from port to port and does
underwater repairs and cleaning between races. He packs his inflatable
as luggage. Been around the world several times with it this way and
no complaints.
Happy holidays,
Brian
================================================================================
Note 1413.8 Another inflatable question 8 of 9
GOLETA::MILLMAN_JA 6 lines 20-DEC-1989 16:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-< Metzler now made by Zodiac >-
I used a Metzler in the S. Pacific for a year and came home and bought
another one to make sure I had a good one for my next trip.....but the
Metzler is now made by Zodiac and not only have the redesigned the boat
(the back has been moved forward making it difficult to turn) but also
now use the Zodiac material - which is not PVC. Any inflatable will be
damaged from the sun.
================================================================================
Note 1413.9 Another inflatable question 9 of 9
MSCSSE::BERENS "Alan Berens" 11 lines 20-DEC-1989 16:38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-< some day I'll buy another Avon >-
I wouldn't leave an inflatable dinghy on a transom for at least two
reasons: damage from the sun and risk of theft. We have two foot pumps for
our Avon, so inflation time (two people) is under five minutes. Avon foot
pumps can be easily modified to pump air out of the dinghy. Deflation time
is also under five minutes. (These times are for an Avon Redcrest). When
Practical Sailor surveyed its readers about inflatable dinghies, the result
was that Avons were the most expensive, longest lasting, and require the
fewest repairs. Avons have been around a long time. If they weren't the
best (or at least very good), they wouldn't sell at the prices they do.
This may be one of those instances when lesser price equals lesser quality.
Of course, lesser quality may still be good enough.
| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 573.1 | Decisions, decisions...feedback | SSGVAX::REDFIELD | | Mon Dec 25 1989 20:03 | 69 |
| Now that you have brought yourself up to date.
I have a couple of additional comments.
Carl
The spec's noted in .2 closely match mine.
>
> Good Quality
> Store on Swim Platform -- Lots of Sun
> Hard Transom for OB
> No speed needed - Just Anchor to beach etc.
> 3 people (Swim Plat/Transom limits size)
> Stable to step into
> Store/setup easy (in case weather says take it off the platform)
>
I have done some more research based on inputs and find that the
absence/presence of Hypalon as a component of the fabric is a key
determinator of the price.
For example (all prices for approx 10'):
Core Mat'l Outer Skin Inner Skin Price
---------- ---------- ---------- -----
AVON 840 den nylon hypalon hypalon 1450
ACHILLES 840 den nylon(4) hypalon(2) neoprene 1350
ZODIAC 1100 den polyester calendered with Stongan (?) 850
METZELER same as ZODIAC 900
BOAT US 1000 den poly hypalon/neprene neoprene 9'2" 689
11'2" 995
WEST MARINE 961 den nylon hypalon neoprene 849
My conclusions:
Hypalon seems to be the designer's choice of preference. Zodiac
is using a polyester. Does this make a key difference? Opinions
offered is that it is not as abrasion resistant as hypalon, nor
as resistant to embrittlement from UV.
Neoprene is used internally because of air holding capability.
Not sure if hypalon replacement internally with AVON provides
any advantage.
AVON certainly has the reputation as does the Achilles. Zodiac
seems to be deficient in UV protection. A best buy might be the
WEST MARINE product.
Is an AVON worth paying a premium of 60%?
I do wish the METZELER was made out of a better fabric. The complete
collapsability feature with the inflatable floor certainly is attractive.
On the other hand, if it is always stowed maybe the need for hypalon as a
fabric is less.
Other thoughts?
Happy Holidays!
Carl
|
| 573.2 | Nordlantic | PACKER::GIBSON | DTN225-5193 | Tue Dec 26 1989 09:07 | 27 |
| Two seasons ago I bought the Bliss Marine 12 ft inflateable with the
plywood flooring and inflateable keel. It has a hard transom and will
take up to a 35 hp outboard. I originally set out to purchace the 10
footer, so as to stow on my foredeck all pumped up or on the dive
platform which is 10 ft wide. But while I waited for Bliss to get them
in stock the summer was slipping away and I found a super deal on a
brand new 15 hp outboard and.... So I bought the 12 footer.
They list at Bliss for about $1,500. and I talked them down to $1,100.
From the very start the raft has leaked air, Sloooowly! They have a
valve problem. Not in design but in installer ability. They need to use
a silicon grease on the "O" rings but they put them in dry! I brought
it back to Bliss twice and they could not fix it. They just don't
grease the O ring?? So just yesterday my Brother in law machined a
special tool for working on the valves. The raft shold be OK for this
comming year with lots of grease!
Other than that, I'm pretty happy with it. I can tow it up to 10 knots
before it trys to flip over and with the little 15 hp motor it will zip
along with three divers and all their gear!
All I need now is to have somebody weld up some davits so I can carry
it on the transom of Rainbow Chaser. Any Heli Arc welders out there??
Walt
|