Conference vicki::boats

    Malibu also has another model, a bowrider, which I can't remember.  It
    wasn't called the Sunsetter.  It was a big boat like Correct Craft's
    Martinique.
    
    All of the Malibus are superb boats and I *think* they use a 454 in all
    models.  Don't quote me there.
    
    Steve

    Malibu now makes 3 bowriders (Sunsetter, Sunsetter Euro F-3, and the
    new one which I don't know the name of yet) and 2 ski-boats (Skier and
    Skier Euro F-3) both AWSA approved towboats.
    
    You can get any engine of your choice including PCM (350,351,454),
    Indmar (351,260 2&4 bolt, 454 2&4 bolt), Mercruiser (260,454) or
    Commander(351,460) {unusual because Malibu had delivery problems.
    Usually, the off-the-lot boats have a Merc 260, or an occasional
    big-block.  Where did you see the new bowrider?  I didn't think
    they were available yet. Is it 22 or 23 ft? Supposed to be in the
    C.C. Martinique/Supra Saltaire category.
    
    Doug

From Waterski magazine (Nov/Dec):
  New innovations for 1991 include a state-of-the-art dash design and MEMS
(Malibu Electronic Management Sytem) which places 18 highly reliable solid 
state monitoring and actuating functions at the drivers fingertips. (Standard
equipment on all 1991 Malibu Euro series and Flightcraft boats.) 
  The heart of the MEMS system is a solid state control unit that monitors vital
engine functions, maintains proper tolerance settings, and helps to ensure safe 
and efficient operation of all systems. Oil pressure, engine temperature, 
electrical and fuel systems are monitored on a continuous basis.  If a problem
arises, MEMS instantly alerts the driver through a panel of well placed 
indicator lights.
  With the flick of a switch, MEMS also provides a reliable guage and instrument
check, automatically indicating tolerance limits and assuring proper operation.
  An important safety feature is the MEMS "forget me not" fuel vapor removal
system. When activated, this system operates the bilge blower for four minutes,
removing dangerous fumes from the engine compartment. The system then shuts off
the blower automatically.
  Another special feature is the MEMS "wetsuit check" A digital readout quickly
and accurately displays lake water temperature, while the flip of a switch 
provides the current outside air temperature.  The system also includes an easy 
read digital clock and hour meter.

Other innovations for '91 include:
 o Pivoting ski pylon head, using precision dual needle bearings, which 
   eliminates rope binding and reducing rope wear.
 o Ergonomically contoured driver seat featuring an air bag system for 
   comfortable custom lower back support and an adjustable headrest with 
   optional clip-on rope recoil shield.
 o Rear seat that converts to a sun deck.
 o Tilt steering wheel.

 
                                 

I'll take 1... Whats the $$$ tag  did it say

It sure would make a nice add-on package for any boat!

Roger

    > ...Whats the $$$ tag ?
    
    For what, the whole boat?  :^)
    The MEMS system is available standard, but I don't know who makes it
    for Malibu or if it's available seperately. (I doubt it.)
    
    But - A company called JAC inc. is manufacturing a Systems Monitor
    (sic).. From the writeup in WSki Mag:
    
    The new Systems Monitor from JAC inc. is an easily installed add-on
    that continuously monitors the three basic engine functions of water
    temperature, oil pressure, and altenator output.  Without using any 
    special senders, the Systems Monitor electronically "reads" the
    existing panel gauges and if the preset threshold is reached, an 80 db
    alarm is sounded and a high output warning light is lit. This standard
    two inch instrument drops into a standard gauge hole.  The attractive
    retail price of only $39.00 makes this alarm a must for all active
    boaters.  For more information, contact J A Chamberlain, inc., 821
    Waterway Place, Longwood FL 32750.  407-323-4838 or 800-262-2929.
    
    dw

    While I was out at Valley Marina in Rindge NH last Friday I got to see
    the latest Flightcraft machine. It's the 200 XL O/B, a sharp looking
    world approved competition ski boat. It comes with a 175 hp OMC, 200 hp
    Merc, or a 200 hp Yamaha outboard. The ski pylon can go mid-ships or be
    moved back to just in front of the engine. The rear seat is removable
    to access a judges speedometer. The hull was designed to be quick
    planing, about 1.1 seconds with very little lift. The owner at V/M was
    saying that the power trim was designed with an additional 6 degrees of
    negative trim, and 4 degrees of positive trim. The negative trim helps
    it bite harder to aid in quick planing. 
    
    We almost got to test it but the owner couldn't find a 3" pylon clamp
    for the boom, and he was reluctant to turn it into a demo. With a price
    tag of $21K for the OMC o/b, and $23K for the Yamaha o/b it was too
    pricey for us novices to be beating up on, but don't think we didn't
    try. :^) 
     
    Mike Seipel was saying that he *firmly* beleives that in the next few
    years the majority of competition ski boats sales will be equiped with
    outboards because of their superior wake characteristics, fuel economy,
    power, and ease of maintanence.  The new Yamaha 200 o/b is supposedly 
    more fuel efficient than the inboards setups withs comparable power.
     
    ~jeff
    

    RE: .6
    JEFF,
    
    MIKE SEIPEL IS SPONSORED BY YAMAHAMMA. Because of his footin ability.
    
    But the out board barefoot boats don't even come close to the wake
    characteristics of the barefoot Nautique. Also, Mike doesn't need
    his ob to hold true and strong at 35 off,nor does he trick at
    16 mph behind er. The table would be so turbulent,that his teeth
    would rattle out. 
    
    Stay with the inboards,unless ya need a mosquito repellant

	YO KLEINM,

	Don't you think that each case should be judged individually?
	Just because an inbourd (SUPRA!) is the best for you, doesn't
	mean it will be the best for everyone.  Do you know what Jeff's
	needs in a boat are?

	Personally, when I get to the stage in my life when I can
	afford the boat of my dreams, it will probably be an outboard.
	If it were today, it would be a MasterCraft 200 equipped with
	a Yamaha 200.  In my opinion, the new generation of outboard
	barefoot boats provide a wonderful compromise for folks who
	like to barefoot and slalom.  I like to do barefoot wake-
	crossings, and have a b&*(&ch of a time behind an inboard
	tournament boat.  The MasterCraft 200 has a firm enough
	curl to make the crossings a challenge (for me) and a flat
	enough table for a stable ride from curl to curl.  I wouldn't
	mind making a few passes through the slalom course behind this
	boat either.  However, from what I've seen of the Barefoot
	Nautique, I don't think I'd enjoy a ride through the course
	as much.

	Don't get me wrong.  I'm not trying to detract from the Barefoot
	Nautique.  It's regarded as probably the best all-around barefoot
	boat out there.  I just see the outboards as being a good
	compromise.  And just because Mike skis for Yamaha, doesn't
	mean he's wrong in what he says.  Seems there are more outboard
	ski boats available than ever before.  I wonder if CC will be
	coming out with one soon?  :-)

	Regards,

	-ric!

    Yo buddieeeeeeeeee,
    
    If ya foot alot----barefoot Nau
    If ya slalom alot---An inboard
    if ya trick alot---an inboard
    if ya do more of 2 and 3 than 1---an inboard.
    with the 285 motors out now,there should be enough top end for all
    but the real heavy boys.
    outboard motors are too expensive for what your getting
    
    
    that's just one opinion, no offense,I just don't like mosquitos and
    I thank the outboard owners for their fogging.
    
    
    I do admit,there are some tournament outboards that are ok for 
    traditional skiing as long as it's not all out traditional top end
    E.P. stuff.
    
    like the barefoot warrior.
    
    ski ya in the notes,
    
    Matt

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Note 938.0                     Flightcraft 18 XLT                        1 reply
COMET::KLEINM                                         3 lines  31-DEC-1991 18:48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What are your impressions of the Flightcraft 18 XLT?
    
    Anyone had any experiances with this flighty?

    Moved by moderator...
    
================================================================================
Note 938.1                     Flightcraft 18 XLT                         1 of 1
ULTRA::BURGESS "Mad Man across the water"            14 lines   1-JAN-1992 15:53
                        -< Grant has one;   ask Mike. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re                        <<< Note 938.0 by COMET::KLEINM >>>
>                            -< Flightcraft 18 XLT >-

>    What are your impressions of the Flightcraft 18 XLT?
    
>    Anyone had any experiances with this flighty?

	Nice bout, though small.

	Parts could be a problem, some mix-down thing about the Malibu
takeover and  "lofistics",   Y'know ?     (-:

	Reg

    Which one ? The outboard or the inboard ? Both are small and don't have
    a lot of room for 4 people with gear. The size is a blessing while
    towing though, if that matters. The outboard is the lighter of the two.
    
    Flightcraft isn't cheap though. They've dumped a lot of money into R&D
    for the boat which they're looking to recoup. This month's issue of
    Waterski magazine has write ups on the 18XL inboard and the 20XL O/B.
    To give you an idea of how expensive a Flightcraft is, a new 1991
    Malibu Euro F3, 19' leftover inboard can be had for $16.9K, a new 1991
    Flightcraft 18XLT with a 150hp OMC is around $21K from the same dealer.
    Add another $1500 if you want the 200 hp Yamaha. Not sure where the 18
    inboard falls but I'd suspect it's still $4K *above* a Malibu.
    
    Valley Marina in Rindge NH has an 18XLT O/B. Ask for Tom.
    
    ~jeff

    
    As Reg mentioned a friend of mine has a Flightcraft 18 XLT and
    I would conservatively say I spend an average of about one time
    a week over the summer in or behind this boat.  I think it is 
    a VERY good boat.  Well constructed with attention to detail
    and quality.  But,  this boat was the last model year to be
    built in Australia,  before Flightcraft was bought by Malibu. 
    This is not to say the new models are of a different quality
    it is just an observation, I believe the hull is still the exact
    same design.  The boat was designed for barefooting and it was
    designed quite well.  I have not barefooted behind a better boat
    and have footed behind CC's(not a barefoot Naut.) , MC's(Inboard,O/B)
    Centurians, Brendellas, I/O's.  The table behind the boat is very good
    in fact I do not even bother trying to get outside the wake to 
    stand up.  The slalom wake is good at speeds 32 and over, and is OK at
    lower speeds,  but it is not the best you can get.  We often use the 
    boat to pull us thru the course at the ski club I am in.   And no one
    seems to complain,  it is not a bad slalom boat.  For tricking or
    kneeboarding it has a very nice wake and table.
    As for handling I have not found a better boat!  I truely find it
    fun to drive.  It tracks well and corners like on rails.
    Top speed is in the mid 40's.  My friend is around 185-200 lbs
    and it can pull him around 42-43 MPH barefoot.
    As for its short comings.  As Reg mentioned it is small.  And the
    newer models are even smaller yet since the back seat does not come
    out,  on the older models like Grants the back seat does come out.
    But remember this a barefoot boat,  ie: no need for room  to
    put alot of skis.  It is ok with a group of 4 people,  5 is not 
    too bad,  6 is REAL cramped,  but we have done it on a number of
    occations.  Storage is limited to the nose of the boat, which is
    short.  If you generally have alot of equipment that you want to
    have with you ( ie: coolers, lots of water toys) you have to be
    a little creative and willing to be always putting things in and
    out of the bow.  The other bad/good thing is haw low it sits in the
    water.  Very little freeboard.  This is good because it is easy to
    a footer on the boom,  I think it looks real nice sitting in the 
    water, it is easy to pick up skis and such out of the water.
    But,  you have to be very careful or you will be taking waves over
    the bow at idle speeds.  This is generally only a problem when you
    turn around and go back over your own wakew when you are trying
    to get someone started and they fall.  It is not a big preblem and
    becomes second nature to do the right thing once you have gotten 
    used to it.
    
    So if it is not obvious I like the boat.  I have a Baja I/O which
    I like as well but this boat does things mine can not and vise-versa.
    If I were to buy a new boat I would most definitely consider this
    boat or the Flightcraft O/B.   If you are a barefooter I do not think
    you will be disapointed, if you are a diehard slalom skier I think that
    there might be a better suited boat out there.  If you want a boat that
    is very uncommon and unique and will get lots of looks no matter
    where you go it is just that kind of boat (IMO).  Not the best reason
    to buy a boat, but to some people...   (if you knew Grant you would
    understand) :-)
                                                      
    Mike Smith
    
    

    re:: .13                                                 
    
    
    Thanks Mike,that was the kind of response I was looking for.
    I am more of a die-hard slalom skier than a barefooter but that
    happened because at our elevation,you need a 454 or an outboard
    to foot. It became easier to train for serious slalom than to accept
    the shortcomings of the big block for slalom and the ob's for shortline
    slalom tracking and tricking table just so we could foot.
    
    The MC's,CC's,and Supra's up here at 6000 with the 285 hp motors are 
    having a hard time running much over 41-42 with out a skier or anyone
    except the driver in the boat. I was hoping the Flighty would slip in
    there and fill the gap. I realize that a top slalom boat can't have 
    tourney barefoot wakes. 
    
    What's it like behind the 18xlt at 28 off---35 off. And how well does
    it track at shortline? 
    
    How are the 15 off loops at the real slow speeds like 26-28 mph?
    Comparable to the old Nau's or better?
    
    We ski on a small lake and use a dock for our equipment so storage is
    not a concern but how is the rear facing seat for say two big judges?
    
    is it as good a trick boat as the Supra or a Nau?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Are you sure the rear seat does'nt come out? That would suck.
    
    

    
    RE: 14
    
    As far as the tracking and wake at shortline I am not sure that I can
    help you too much here.  Personally my best is 3 bouys at 36 MPH and
    I ski long line.  I find that the wakes get bettter and better from
    32 MPH and up.  I can say that people in the club have said that the
    wake is good at 36 MPH and 15 off.  There is really only one guy that
    skies with us that gets into 35 off and all I can say there is that I
    have never heard him complain about spray or poor wakes.  I can say
    that I have heard people say that the MC has a great wake.  This is
    not a comercial for MC just an observation that I have heard good
    things about MC and no bad things about the Flightcraft.  We do not
    have a newer CC in the club to compare to.  As for tracking the 
    majority of the driving I do is at 34 and 36 MPH 15 off.  I do not 
    consider my self a great driver but I feel the boat tracks well,
    straight and little or no roll.  We often time, but not always, and
    maintaining correct speed is not a problem.
    
    As for the slower speeds,26-28 MPH I believe the complaint is the height
    of the wake not a rooster tail.  I here this mainly from the women
    who ski with us,  but that say that about most boats at that speed.
    So I am not sure it is that much larger.  It is a fairly norrow boat
    and I think this contrubutes to the wake at slower speeds.  But that 
    is what makes it nice for trick and kneeboard.
    
    From what I can tell of the new models the back seat does not come 
    out.  What they have done is extend from the back of the motor cover
    to the back of the boat and put two seats on the sides, like jump
    seats.  I think they put a cooler or some storage in the area 
    between the motor cover and the back.  I do not like it at all and
    do not understand why they(Malibu) did this.
    
    I believe you can drop a 454 into the boat, because my freind who
    has the 18XLT said he has seen one with one.  Do not know if it was
    a factory mod or a personal mod.
    
    Hope this helps,
    Mike

    I forgot to memtion that the newest WATERSKI magazine did its 
    yearly boat evaluations.  The Flightcraft 18XLT and the 20 O/B
    are both evaluated and they give impressions for slalom at the
    different line lengths.  You need to read between the lines on
    these reviews since they hardly ever say anything bad about any
    of the boats who pay for advertising in the magazine. :-)
    If you read a few of the reviews you can get the idea behind what
    they are saying.  They also have a picture of the layout of the
    boat.  One question I forgot to answer was can two large people sit
    in the observers seat.  I would say it is possible,  it is hard to
    say what large is.  We often have two observers but two big guys
    is defintely going to be tight sitting side by side.  If one wants
    to move down along the gunnel as the seat wraps around there is
    more room, but that is less comfortable.
    
    By the way WATERSKI gives very good reviews for Flightcrafts.
    
    Mike

re -1
    
>    different line lengths.  You need to read between the lines on
>    these reviews since they hardly ever say anything bad about any
>    of the boats who pay for advertising in the magazine. :-)
 
    I was looking at the stats for the Barefoot Sanger which gets rated
    high overall for the five events (I thinks it's this one). ANyways,
    they rate tracking with a slalom skier at 3 stars (props) and say it
    could be better. They rate the Flightcraft 18XLT at 2.5 stars (props)
    for tracking and have nothing but good things to say about it. I found
    a couple of examples of 'whats good for the goose isn't good for the
    gander'.
                       
    ~jeff

    re::  .15
    
    Thanks Mike again for your help, I am going to seriously consider
    becoming a part of their promo team for '92.
    
    Matt

    RE:: .16 and 17
    
    The boat buyers guide does not really say any;thing bad about any 
    boat,they would hate to lose those advertising bucks. I also found a 
    lot of inconsistency between the prop ratings and what they would say
    in the written portion. 
    
    The Nau got about the best rating of all followed by the 18 XLT and 
    then the MC and Supreme TS. I had a problem with what they said about
    the Supra. According to the prop ratings,the California skier looked 
    like a better boat. I don't know if the Calif. has made it's way out to
    the east coast,I don't think it should of left California.
    I will be the first to admit that Supra is not the best boat in ;the
    world,but it should rank better than a majority of the boats tested.
    That is why I thought asking around in the notes file would give me a 
    truer picture of the Flighty. 
    
    Why am I considering the Flighty and giving up my Supra?
    
    1.  My dealer sucks.
    
    2.  Correct craft is satisfied with one promo team member in Colorado.
    I almost got a '92 Nau w/ the 285 pro boss for 17,000.My only
    obligations would of been 3 tournaments and the western regionals,and I
    would have received over $100 credit for taking my boat to these!
    
    3. American skier wants me to promo a Legend but I am afraid of the 
    resale value since there is not a dealer in the state. I could pick one
    of those up with the 285 for about $16,500.
    
    ski ya out on the water when it becomes less SOLID!!
    
    Matt
    

    I test drove a Malibu Echelon last weekend on Long Pond
    in Dracut, MA.  I thought it was a *roomy* boat, and
    was kind of impressed *but not too*! with the three
    green lights you see on the dash board when you've
    matched/met the desired speed.  
    
    I won't say anything negative about the boat, only that
    I'm glad I bought the MC (quality) instead.  :>)
    
    The Echelon looks like it has a really nice slalom wake
    at 32MPH and up.  I didn't have a chance to ski behind
    the boat, but from my passenger observation the wake
    looked similar to the MC.
    
    JD/