Conference vicki::boats

    I would do the following:
    
    1. Run the boat hard as you mentioned in the previous note.
      
    2. Test the shifting, work forward and reverse passing through slow
       fast. It should be smooth with no banging.
    
    3. Test the outdrive while turning. Run figure eights at slow and
    moderate speeds  and run in tight circles. These thing test the
    variuos u-joints.
    
    4. Run the boat at variuos trim angles also. Make sure the power
    tilt functions correctly.
    
    5. Check the oil before and after running the engine.
    
    6. Start the engine both cold and hot.
    
    7. Check the hull and lower unit for signs of having run aground.
    
    8. If you can talk to the previous owner do so.
    
    9. Open the inspection hatches and see what you see.... check the
    rub rail for looseness or signs of hard docking.
    
    I am sure others will add to the list. The main thing is be critical.
    Bring someone else with you for an unbiased opinion.
    
    Bruce
    

Also check all fittings, all connections especially to the
battery where the connections often (just like in a car)
get loose, deteriate, need cleaning etc. etc.

In my case the boat ran beautifully 1st time (test run)

2nd time (pleasure run) I found the connectors to the
\battery posts completely corroded and it blew that day.

Lloyd

    I was thinking that this kind of information may be useful to people
    who are experienced boaters, but may be moving to different type of
    boat with which they have little knowledge too. 
    
    Re. .1, I have only operated small boats with outboards, outdrives,
    u-joints, and trim angles are all new to me. Most of what you said
    was clear to me, but I have to ask about other items:
    
    Test the u-joints. How will I know if I've encountered a bad one?
    I don't have a frame of reference.
    
    Run the boat at various trim angles. Sounds good, but what I am
    looking for?
    
    Thanks...john

    Just as in a truck if the u-joint has play in it, it  will make
    crunching noises or vibrate when stressed. In general what I was
    saying is try to execise all the moving parts through their full
    range of movement. When going through these excercises listen and
    feel for noises, banging, slipping and if it does not seem right
    have a pro check it out.
    
    I have unfortunaltly been the victem of at least two counts of
    negligence this year that has cost me the better part of the
    boating season this year. While they have been under warenty
    my boat has been in dry dock far more weeks than in the slip that
    I paid $1250 for.......
    
    
    Bruce

    before buying a used boat, I would get a marine survey done. You can 
    do all the test drives and inspections you want, but a professional 
    marine surveyor can find things you never thought to look at.  They'll 
    run from a couple of hundred to over a grand depending on the size of 
    the boat.  You can rest assured the money'll be well spent.
    
    Joe A.

    After you're all done driving and listening get your hands dirty!
    At minumum I'd do a compression check of the engine, and check the
    outdrive or lower unit lubricant for signs of water leaking into 
    the machinery. Problems in these areas are easy to identify and
    generally costly to correct.
    
                                                Tom
    

In no particular order...

Check the hull for signs of repairs or cracks.  Check the front of the
keel for wear and holes caused by beaching the boat.  Also check the hull
for signs of blistering, which can be a serious condition.  Don't worry 
about minor gelcoat stress cracks, they're perfectly normal, even on a
fairly new boat.

Check the engine and outdrive for proper operation, smooth and quiet 
shifting, vibrations, oil burning or leaks.  You may even want to do
a compression test.  Also check cooling system and manifolds for signs
of corrosion.

If the boat's been in salt water, check all electrical wiring and 
connections for corrosion. Also check the operation of pumps, horns, 
lights, radios, etc...

Check the steering system, particularly where the cable goes through the
motor.  Figure at least $100 for a new cable if there any signs of sticking
or corrosion.

Check behind the seats, upholstery, under the floor carpeting, and inside
the transom for rotten wood.  Back-to-back recliner seats are notorious
for rotting out, and replacements are $3-400 per pair.  You'll want to 
stay away from boats with rotten floors or stringers, and rotten transoms
unless the price is outrageously cheap.

Check the condition of the trailer.  If it's not galvanized, look for
rusted out areas.  Check the lights, winch, rollers, wheels and tires,
ask about the wheel bearings or even jack up a wheel and see if it spins
easily.  If it has brakes make sure they're not frozen up.

And finally, just look at the overall appearance of the entire rig.  The
difference should be obvious between a s#!tbox boat that's been cleaned up 
for a quick sale, and a boat that's been well maintained, cleaned and lubed
all its life.  As someone else mentioned, bring an impartial friend who may 
spot some of the flaws that you'll surely miss if it's a case of "love at 
first sight".  If you have any doubts about the boat then steer clear, 
there are plenty of used boats for sale.  And unless you're in a big hurry 
to get a boat for this season, keep in mind that prices will generally drop 
considerably after labor day weekend (if you can wait that long!)

Good luck!

Rick W.

P.S. After typing this out I noticed a couple of replies advising that you
     have a marine survey done on the boat.  This is good advice on a large
     or expensive boat, but I think is a bit of overkill if you're on a
     budget and looking for a small and relatively inexpensive boat.
     Especially if you end up having to pay for 3 or 4 surveys before 
     finding the right boat.  If you follow the advice that's been given,
     think with your head and not your heart, and bring someone who knows
     boats along with you, then I think you'll do alright.

    Moved by moderator.  Also see notes 286 and 486 for more info
    on buying used boats.
    
================================================================================
Note 818.0                    Suggestions on buying                   No replies
ICS::FERNANDES                                       10 lines   8-APR-1991 16:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am looking to buy a boat, I'm calling banks and going to dealers
    that have Repos,new or used, what my question is is what are the
    main things I should look for in used boats or new boats so I don't
    get taken. The boats I'm looking at are 20' to 24' cuddy cabins and
    sometimes the teak is worn or the cushins are not in the best shape.
    I can do cosmetics well but I need to know what other things I should
    watch for to get my best deal. Making the offer is tricky too.
    Can anyone help me with this?
    Thanks in advance.
    

    Make your offer subject to sea trial, engine survey, and hull survey in
    that order.
    
    First, sea trial it at full throttle. Take it for at least an hour run
    at all speeds.
    
    Second, hire a mechanic to check out the engine. Do a compression test,
    oil pressure test cold and hot, etc. It will cost a $100 or so an
    engine but it well worth the investment.
    
    Third, hire a marine surveyor to check out the hull, etc.
    
    Any defects must be fixed by the seller or the deal is off and you get
    your deposit back or you beat down the price based on your knowledge of
    what is what.
    
    You will need a hull survey to get insurance anyway.
    
    Call your bank (or any marine lender) for a recommendation of a
    surveyor. Get several and ask who is tough and thorough. If the same
    name keeps coming up, call him up and talk with him. Don't let the
    seller recommend one of his "buddies".
    
    This will cost several hundred dollars but can save you from a major
    mistake and major dollars.
    

    So far, i agree with the previous recommendation. Except that i would
    recommend a survey prior to making an offer.
    
    One that i will disagree with is: a survey is required to get
    insurance.  This is not correct.....
    
    Jim.

    I would not do a survey before I made an offer because unless the
    seller is willing to take my offer, I am not interested. Naturally I
    would be offering less than asking. If he accepts the offer, then I am
    interested. "subject to survey" means acceptable to you also once you
    have seen the survey and it meets your approval. If you found something
    wrong you have a basis for reducing the price or having the seller pay
    to fix it. You always have the right to walk away and say the survey
    did not meet your satisfaction. The seller has no right to see your
    survey since you are paying for it.
    
    As far as insurance goes, I have had five boats and everytime the
    insurance company wanted a copy of the survey
     to prove seaworthyness and establish value.
    
    value.