Conference vicki::boats

    If you've had the same coil for an extended period of time it's
    a good bet that it's the cause of the problem.  The hotter the coil
    gets, the more likely it will begin to break down or short out.
    The symptoms you describe would make me believe the coil is the
    culprit in your case.  There are machines which can check a coil for
    shorts etc., but I wouldnt' rely too heavily on the results (thet
    will check it when it's cold.  You can also check it yourself by 
    inserting a small screwdriver where the lead to the distributor 
    connects, turn over the engine and see ifyou can get a spark to arc to 
    some other part of the engine block.  It's too late though when you 
    verify the problem the next time you're out on the water and the
    engine won't start.  
    
    Herb

    Re .0
    
    Sound like a problem I had a few years ago with my Galaxy. It had the
    Mercruiser 488. The problem was the the Rochester carb was vapor
    locking due the wrong needle seats. Once the engine was cold it would
    start up.
    
                                         Jeff

    Warm engine will not run. 1977 Mercruiser 888, 188 hp Ford 302.
    
    Ok, it is beginning to look like a continueing saga of getting a fix
    and coming back to the notesfile for more, but here I am.
    
    I'll spare the details of results, but this is what happened:  I've
    been able to start� and run the boat (once warmed up) just fine. No
    problems until this past weekend. The first symptom was a lumpy idle,
    sounded like it wanted to quit, but didn't. Then when I slowed to turn,
    it quit. I couldn't restart, easily. I could restart it on fast idle,
    but when I brought it back to neutral it died. Several times. Could get
    it running, but couldn't shift it into gear without it quiting. Towed
    the boat back to mooring.
    
    Thanks for any ideas.
    
    john
    
    
    � Never started from Neutral. Always have had to push the neutral
    button, move lever to fast idle and give it several shots of gas to get
    it running. Removing the flame arrester told me that the choke didn't
    seem to activate, and if I held the plate down while starting it did
    start easier. I have planned to replace whatever has to be replaced
    there, but haven't been able to get around to it. I don't know if these
    two problems are connected, but I've always had the cold starting
    problem, however this was the first time I experienced this unable to
    run at idle problem.

    Giving it a few shots of gas (to me) would be considered normal.
    Most folks have to even when its used weekly.
    
    In short, here's what i get from your explanation. Will start,
    in fast idle after a pumping the throttle. Will start better
    if you hold the choke closed.
    
    Replace the "heat riser" this holds the choke closed until the
    engine is warmed up. Very inexpensive fix......
    
    Also make sure you idle isn't to low, say 600 rpm is the very least..
    
    
    JIm.

    Needing choke on a warm engine is not normal.  This is a fuel delivery
    problem.  Check for water in the fuel.  Check the fuel filter(s) - 
    probably an inline, easy to reach item, there may also be one in the
    carb, reachable by removing the fuel line.  These don't usually affect 
    idle, but they're easy to check.  With the engine running at a low
    idle (in your case medium or as low as it'll keep running), check for 
    vacuum leaks by spraying carb cleaner on the exterior of the carb
    and intake manifold, concentrating on gasket areas, vacuum hose
    connections and throttle shaft pivot points.  If the engine rpm's
    drop while doing this, it indicates a vacuum leak.  I would think that 
    the idle circuit might be clogged (crud in the gas?).  
    Best fix is to remove,
    disassemble, and clean the carb, using compressed air and/or a dunk
    tank.  Buy a gasket kit or a rebuild kit (rebuild kit will have a new 
    accelerator pump assy and float needle and seat) and
    a new base gasket.  Reinstall the carb, again checking for vacuum
    leaks.  A defective fuel pump might also be a problem, but not likely,
    as fuel pump problems are usually related to higher speed operation.
      All of the above assumes a fuel delivery problem.  It's also possible
    for various electrical problems to cause similar simptoms, but not
    often.  
    
    Hope you find an easy cure.
    
    Carl
    

    If it wasn't clear, in the past I only had trouble starting when cold,
    seems as if the choke wasn't working. Would run slowly with no problem.
    Started OK when warm, didn't think I needed choke.
    
    Starting Sunday it started to idle real rough, and at the end of the
    day it stalled when I brought it back to neutral in order to shift into 
    gear. I could start in with the button in and the lever forward, but it
    wouldn't continue to run when I throttle back to shift into gear. So, I
    start it, but couldn't go anywhere. Now that it has been mentioned it
    was trying to idle real low, like around 500 RPM, maybe less. (Ok, I'll
    admit not to being able to remember exactly where it idled when all was
    normal). Now wouldn't it be nice if it was only a matter of adjusting
    the idle set screw? But then how did it fall out of adjustment? And why
    didn't I think of that while being blown into the marsh dragging my
    anchor in the mud?
    
    Thanks,
    
    john

   
    John, i think we can help you if you give us a little more info.
    
    When was the last tune up done.. and what was done.
    
    When were the fuel filters changed.
    
    When was the last time the plug wires were changed.
    
    What i'm after is in general what's been done, we  can guess based
    on symptoms, but it would be easier have a base line to work with.
    
    JIm.

    The last "tune up" was last fall. New parts = Points/plugs/condenser.
    No cap, no plug wires.  Still not sure if timing was set right
    (discussed in another note, but ran fine afterward). Don't know age of
    wires, cost kept me from changing them just to change them last year,
    ditto cap.
    
    Don't know when fuel filters were changed last. I guess I knew that
    they should be changed, but I've used the boat so little.
    
    john

    Here's my advice, based on my own experience....
    
    I bought the boat i currently own 2 yrs. ago.
    
    The habit i got into, is to maintain a repair log.
    Of course i didn't get one when i bought this one.
    So i started my own, and i went thru it, and did a tune up,
    including wires, cap, rotor, etc. all the filters, changed
    the oil and filters. Replaced the belts, and water pump impellers.
    
    This gives me a base line to work with.
    
    I suggest you go ahead and replace the cap and wires. Wires can
    be found at any discount auto parts, i use a 7-7.5mm silicone
    impregnated wire, 15-17 bucks. I don't know about your cap.
    Oh yeh, do the fuel filters as well.
    
    At least this way we won't be chasing our tails...
    
    
    Timing, unless its way off will not cause it to stall.
    
    One more thing, i trash the parts i replace after 100 hours,
    
    except for belts and wires, they go after the 2nd season.
    
    It ain't worth the time troubleshooting, its a pain.
    
    Do the PM......
    
    
    If you go ahead with the rest, and you still have some problems
    i think it will be a little easier, be glad to help...
    
    JIm.
    
    

It has taken a while, I've got another major project underway at the same time,
to get to the boat, but guys, I think that it is fixed. Until the next time, of
course.

I simply couldn't afford to systematically replace every part. Good idea, and I
plan to replace the cap and wires as soon as possible. But I wanted to see if 
there was anything obviously wrong. Checking the gas filter showed nothing 
there. Thought it might be as simple as the idle speed adjustment. Tried that, 
and it worked for a moment or two, then started running like it did before. Not
that. The next weekend (this past one) I got into the ignition system. It felt
like the timing was off. Figured I'd check the gap in the points at the same
time. Good thing I did too. There was none. No gap. These points had no more
than 20 hours on them. Seemed as if the new (now old) points didn't come with
lube and the installer (me) forgot to get some to put on them after putting them
in. $22 down the drain. New points, adjust the timing, and she runs like a champ
again! Had some fun yesterday outside the break in Chatham, just to show you how
my confidence had been restored.

john

    I just ound the same problem on my Mercruiser, after a mechanic had
    spent two futile hours trying to solve it. You can't get good help any
    more.
    
    You have to watch out, because the mechanics get their dwell meters
    out, check a couple of electrical contacts, then suddenly declare that
    the timing and points are fine. Off goes the mechanic, shaking his
    head. Down went his credibility.
    
    I got in there in desperation, about the replace the condenser as the
    only possible thing that was causing me problems, when I checked the
    gap and SURE ENOUGH, one quick adjustment and the engine was firing
    like a champ again.
    
    Now I carry spares.
    
    Ray

When I saw I had no gap, at least none disernable to the naked eye, I still was
not sure if that was my only problem, but I knew that that had to be corrected
before going any further. So even though the cam-following pad was quite worn,
I adjusted the points right then and there. Started and ran quite a bit better.
Of course. Adjusted the timing. Tested it while moored and observed normal
operation. I then got new points, installed, re-checked everything and tested
again. Then I let go of the mooring and made passes at it while testing so I 
could grap it if there was another problem. Passing that I went out beyond the
5 MPH area for further testing. Everything seemed right again, so later we went
to sea.  I was getting kind of down thinking about all the money I had spent to
put this boat into shape and prepare it for bigger things this year and I was
not going to be able to use it because of some problem that was going to cost
more than I could afford. Yes, and it did bring a lot of satisfaction that I
found and fixed the problem for myself and didn't give up and hand it over to
someone and pay a lot of money, only to possibly end up where you did.

john