Conference vicki::boats

Jeff,
One of the largest advertisers of replacement motors and outdrives
is Doug Russell, on Route 20 down in Worcester.  They're one of the
few that actually quotes prices in their ads, so I don't know how
they compare to other places.  With it being local you'v got the
advantage of not having to wait or pay for shipping, you can pick
it up yourself.

Rick W.

    
    Marine engines are designed to run at steady speeds for long periods
    of time with a constant load on them. They typically use industrial/
    commercial strength engines. My SeaRay has a 302 Ford which, when
    I froze it one winter educated me as to different bearings, heads,
    valves, oil system etc. Bottom line. GET A MARINE ENGINE for a
    replacement or risk having your crankshaft bearings among other
    things pop out at the worst possible time.

    reply to .3
    
    Almost all engine manufacturers make automotive engines and a
    truck/commercial engine version of that engine. In the case of
    mercruiser and OMC GM based engines the LT engines used in trucks for
    the 350 and 307 blocks is the same engine ( Block and heads) that they
    use for marine engines. The acessories and camshaft are different, as
    well as the fact that they use marine gaskets for the heads and intake
    manifolds.
    
     Marine suppliers will charge outrageous prices for the identical parts
    you can buy at an auto/truck parts supply store. If you know what is
    different and specific to marine use, you can save big $ ( and usually
    get your parts quicker) by going to the local automotive parts supplt
    house.
     

    Re .4
    
    You've not mentioned three of the most important differences between
    marine and stock engines.
    
    The STARTER and ALTERATOR of marine engines are sealed to prevent
    sparks from igniting fuel vapors in the bilge! NEVER EVER substitute
    a car or truck version for a genuine marine version.
    
    The high voltage (spark) circuits get special treatment also, e.g.
    the distributor.
    
    For the same reason, you must have a backfire flame arrester installed.
    
    Gasoline fumes are heavier than air and thus will accumulate in
    the bilge, but dispate beneath an auto. These accessories are not
    more expensive just to rip off boaters.....THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
    
    Jerry
      

    re .5
    
         I concur also never, NEVER, mix auto parts with marine
    parts. Such substitions can prove very fatal. The other part
    not to inter mix is the carborator aswell, and the fuel pump.
    
    Safety first when boating
    

    All internal parts to the engines are the same. The differences
    are, freeze plugs are stainless steel or brass (most cars now are
    ss or brass anyways). The external things are different, like Jerry
    mentioned. They are the same motors GM uses in light trucks!
    
                                                 Jeff 

    re .5
    
     I thought I did mention that the acessories are different- aceessories
    being water pump, fuel pump, alternator , starter, carb and
    distributor. If I am repowering, I would simply take the old ones and
    have them rebuilt  or if in good shape, use as is.
    
     Some of the differences are very minor, some are major. Alternators
    often are an automotive alternator with a flame arresting screen,
    likewise for the starters. Fuel pumps tend to be drastically different,
    yet I have seen some recently that look exactly like an automotive
    pump-
    could be just a difference in materials.
    
     Water pumps are interesting. Most Factory automotive pumps use
    brass/stainless shafts and seals, a cast Iron impellor, and a carbon
    steel back plate. The difference between that factory pump and an OMC
    marine pump is a stainless steel back plate. at over $100 difference
    between the two pumps , I simply have swapped out the back plates. You
    have to be careful of the after market pum,ps from your local autoparts
    store. A lot of these cheap pumps use stamped steel impellors- good for
    about 6 weeks in salt water!
    
     It may be "illegal", but I like to keep some spares on board,and  marine
    starters, alternators,fule pumps can represent a substantial
    investment. I keep an alternator, starter, fuel pump and water pump
    on board.- right from my local auto parts store. I keep enough tools to 
    swap out the screens, or flame arrestors and I'm on my way. Last summer
    I got caught in a gale off of point judith Just as my water pump
    went south ( Marine OEM pump). Slapped on my auto spare , ( didn't
    bother to change the back plate because of urgency) and was on my way
    in about 20 min.Changed out the plate when I got into port.
    
     The minor modifications made do not justify the expense, and the ready
    aavilability of automotive accessories makes the conversion attractive.
    I got fed up with outboards when i would need some part on a Sunday
    afternon and the local dealer didn't have it in stock, and wanted my
    first born as a deposit on ordering - stuff like $65.00 for a starter
    bendix or $175 for a rebuilt starter. 
    
     I went back to an I/O beacuse I can usually get 95% of my parts
    quickly and relatively inexpensively at ,my local auto parts store. 
    I just need to know the differnces and ensure that the necessary
    "marinization" is done.
    
     I will agree that taking a complet automotive engine and acessories is
    NOT something I would consider putting in a boat- block,heads,intake
    manifold, and sometimes oil pan are all you can usually use.
    
    
    
    
    

    if you have to repower, most cases you would wind up with a short
    block. from this point you add the balance back onto the engine
    from your old block. more than likely those parts are still good.
    dthe previous note talked about water pump, well some boats
    that are fresh water cooled have 2.
    the marine fuel pump is quite different, it has 2 diaphrams 
    instead of one, in the event one fails.
    
    i disagree with carrying a starter motor, and alternator
    aboard the boat. I'm only going on some advice an "old timer"
    in a rebuild shop gave me. I had a starter motor rebuilt
    for a spare. My brilliant idea was to carry it aboard in 
    case i had a problem in the future. His advice was to keep
    it at home, i a cool dry place, covered with a cotton rag.
    Living aboard the boat it would only be exposed to the salt
    enviorment, and would not be much good as a spare when needed.
    Same goes for the alternator. From my own experience a
    starter doen't just go, it usually screws up, and gives you some
    warning. I agree with the auto parts store idea, most of the
    time (unless i must have a marine part) i can find it at the 
    local auto parts. And usually at a substantially lower price.
    
    By the way, i was reading Boating mag. for March, real good
    this month, lots of info of getting fitted out for spring.
    One thing got my attention, was a contraption that is fitted
    to the distributor, comes with a cap, hose, heater, and attaches
    to the flame arrester, claims to remove the dampness from the
    cap, which is supposed to be one the nagging problems we have.
    
    Anybody familiar with this device...?????
    
    
    jim
    

    I agree with the point about salt air doing a number on alternators
    and starters. Because of a poor design both the alternator and
    starter coroded in 3 seasons use in my chris (remeber the note
    on my alternator a week before I was to trade it in...). The poor
    design was in the bilge of the chris BTW not the parts themselves.
    
    Capt Codfsih

    My last I/O had a pretty wet bilge area and I got to know my local 
    rebuilder pretty well :<)  He suggested that it was the sitting around
    all winter in the dampness that causes most of the corrosion.  He
    claimed that taking the electric motor type parts out at put up time
    and storing them inside on top of a heat duct or water heater will
    extend thier life consierably.  It seemed to make sense, required
    not much extra work, so I tried it.  Things did seem to last longer.
    
                                            Tom

    i unanimoulsy (sp) agree with the previous note, i've done this
    and it works, and its not really much of a hassle, the last time
    i bought a marine starter it cost $250+, it woth taking both
    these items off, and storing them at home.


                                             
    jim.

    re: .11
    
     I've got an I/o and i have a lot of room under the pan( Older OMC I/O)
    I put a 40W bulb under the pan during the early spring when there tends
    to be a lot of condensation- always dry as a bone whern I lift the
    engine cover.
    
     Warm, humid days and cold nights seems to give the worst case for
    condensation. I also give everything a godd spray of WD40 just before I
    put her away for the season.
    
    Dick
    f
    

	Anyone have any ideas on where to purchase a brand spanking
new *marine* inboard engine?

	Not that I need one right now, as my 351 PCM is running just fine,
but I have entertained the thought of re-powering with a complete new unit
when the time comes that my engine decides it would rather spend more time
at the dock than out on the lake. I've gotten quite spoiled by merely checking
the oil, tranny fluid and turning the key!

	The obvious choices for an engine purchase like boat dealer$ and
di$tributor$ don't seem as if they'd be the best bet. (Roger, remember the
price of head gaskets from NECC?) What are the other options? Carb'd 351s
are pushing 300+ HP now!

Thanks,

Rick

I remember seeing them in the Overton's Discount Marine catalog at one time.
****BIG BUCKS****  Numbers like $3800 without the tranny, $4500 with the tranny
seem vaguely familiar.  Dunno if they still do it.  Might be worth a call.
Freight collect, of course.  :-}

...Roger...

    
    
    	Rick,
    
    How about buying a new 351 4 bolt main from Ford for approx. $2000.00
    and swaping the marine stuff to it (ie: carb, starter) or a rebuilt
    for approx. $1000.00
    
    	Still cheaper than $3800 or $4500.
    
    	Norm
    
    

>    and swaping the marine stuff to it (ie: carb, starter) or a rebuilt

	Actually, not swapping all the peripheral equipment from my
current engine to a new one would be part of the plan. That way I 
would end up paying a little more (although, I could sell off the
*entire* current engine <who knows what it would be worth>) but I
would likely not have to worry about things like the starter dying
this weekend, alternator next weekend and exhaust manifolds rotting
out in mid-August.

	What do you think... A little overkill, maybe?

Rick
    

I'm not positive about this.. But, I think the Engine Connection in
Hudson MA sells them.  I know they sell car engines (cause I had to buy
one for my van).. but I seem to remember seeing them at the Boat Show
in Boston this past February.  Might want to give them a call.
Phone # is:  508-568-9433

    
    
    	re- .17
    
    		Rick,
    
    It's all about how much you want to spend....... I agree a new complete
    would be a just drop-in operation (but major on the wallet), new
    manifolds, carb, but with electrical parts even new ones, you just
    never know. If they go bad, the waranty covers them, but the
    installation still has to be done.
    
    	Is it worth $2K plus?????? You only, can answer that.....
    Personally, I would pocket the $2K, use the old/slightly used alt,
    starter, rebuilt the carb, get new manifolds, and with the rest, buy
    rocket fuel for new engine, toys and food/beer/whatever for you ;-)....
    
    
    	Norm
    

    
    Rick
    
    You can try Russell Marine in Worcester 508-798-0311
    
    Or Scalisi Marine in North Weymouth 617-331-0446
    
    Both of these outfits carry new & rebuilt marine engines
    
    Regards Pat...

    When I lived in Florida, there was a magazine called the BOAT
    TRADER.  It was sort of like the WANT ADVERTISER in Ma, but
    all boats.  It had some commercial ads in it, and there were
    lots of ads for repowering, with prices for difference size
    engines.

    Around here, you can find some sources and prices in SOUNDINGS.

    If you go to any of the bigger boats shows (Ft. Lauderdale,
    Miami, New York) you can get lots of competative prices.
    You should be able to find a 'third party' supplier of a
    similar marinized engine, that cheaper than PCM, if that
    interests you.

    A good place to check is DiPietro-Kay in Rocky Hill, CT. 
    (But, I don't know if they carry PCM).

    The only place I noticed that specifically listed PCM was
    	Atlas Marine
    	4641 Ravenswood Road
    	Ft. Lauderdale, 800 426-2210

    If I were looking for this, I'd call the Manufacturer for the
    name of the distributor your area, and get some leads from
    the distributor.