Conference vicki::boats

    
    I know of a person who purchased a four winns horizon and he loves
    it with the 205hp.
    
    

    Rick,
    
    	Four Winns builds a good boat for the money and in addition
    includes a good warranty which covers hull and power plant. All in all
    a good family boat for the money.
    
    	Now as far as HP is concerned, I would select either the 205 V6 or
    the small V8. With over 1.5 tons to push around, the 175 V6 seems a
    little small. The 205 is roughly the same engine as the 175 - but has
    the 4 barrel carb instead of the 175's 2 barrel. On Lake Sunapee in NH,
    there are Four Winns 205's all over the place, and people seem to like
    them quite a bit.
    
    	And yes, an underpowered boat will effect resale value to some
    extent. The price difference between the 175 and the 205 should not be
    all that much. The main difference between the 205 and the small V8, is 
    smoothness when running, rather then a great deal of difference in
    acceleration or top end - due to the increase in weight over the V6.
    
    	Four Winns makes a nice first boat..good luck
    
    								-mike-

    
    	Rick,
    
    	Last year I bought a 205 from Four Winns, I have the V-6 175.
    	With a steel prop I am able to get 38.5 mph, with a aluminum
    	prop I get 35-36 mps. As Mike B. stated in the earlier reply
    	the only difference between the 175 and 205 is a 4 barrel carb.
    	and about $ 1 K more in money. You may want to check with your
    	insurance company on coverage for bigger engines. Feel free
    	to give me a call to discuss the boat. So far I am very pleased
    	with the Four Winns product.
    
    		Best of luck,
    
    		Mike 	(287-3173)

    I have an 85 Four Winns 196 Cuddy.  This is what the 205 used
    to  be  before they molded the swim platform in with the rest
    of the boat.  (The 205 was what I wanted but for $$$.) I have
    a 175 Mercruiser, which is a four cylinder marine engine.

    I had  my  doubts  before I bought the boat but am pleasently
    suprised.   On a good day (ok ideal day) I can hit 40.  I can
    pull  up  a skier with 4 people on board but it helps a great
    deal  to  put  someone in the bow.  With 6-8 people I will go
    several minutes to get on plane unless someone is on the bow.

    I too  am  very pleased with Four Winns and I think they have
    come along way since 85 too.  Please feel free to call if you
    want.

A non-noting friend of mine here at work has a Four Winns 205 
Sundowner with the 175 hp V-6.  I have driven and skied behind
it, and thought it had plenty of power.  When he first got it
it would do just over 40 mph, but then he had it re-propped to
help pull up skiers.  Now it will do just under 40.

At first he was happy with the power, but now that he's had it
2 seasons he says he should have gotten the 205 hp V-6.  I guess
it's like anything else, he's starting to outgrow it, and the
"bigger-and-faster" bug has bitten him.   8^)

    Rick W.
    

I bought a 200 Horizon (1988) and am a first time boat owner. At the time, a
great many friends that were boat owners suggested to buy a larger engine the
first time as they all wish they had. I purchased the 260 HP and am real happy
with it. I can pull two or three skiers with 5 or 6 on board and it performs
as if there were no one else aboard or being pulled. With the larger engine
the boat planes out the same with or without skiers. Top speed is about 52, but
I very seldom travel that fast unless trying to beat a storm on lake WINI.
As for price, each time you jump up an engine size add approx. $600 per jump.
That was 1988 prices.

I have been extremely happy with the boat and trailer it around four of
major lakes in N.H.

My next step would probably be a LIBERATOR.

    Well I think I have decided to go with the larger engine, But now
    I'm really confused.  First I have gotten two different stories
    from dealers as to whats available on the 205 for 89.  This is what
    I think they offer:
    
    		175hp V6
    		200hp V8
    		205hp V6  ?
    		230hp V8
    		260hp V8

    which is it?
    
    Second if I have a choice between the 200 V8 and the 205 V6 am I
    better going with the V6 because it's lighter?  One dealer is telling
    me CI's are more important at that point than the difference in
    weight.
    
    which is it?
    
    
    Rick

    I have an '88 205 Sundowner with the 200 HP V-8 and really like it. I
    was told by the dealer that the V-8 is smoother running than the V-6
    and based on 1 season with the boat I have to admit that it is
    extremely smooth and quiet at all operating levels. My top speed is
    about 44 MPH with 2 on board and I have no problem pulling skier with 4
    or 5 people on board.

    Well I did it!!  This past weekend I bought the 205 with the 200hp
    V8.  The dealer did not have one in stock so it will be about 8
    weeks before it's here ( no problem since there's still ice on the
    lake).  I ordered it with a couple of extras like an hour meter
    so I know when to change the oil, a wiper and the SLX II package.
    Can't wait for spring!!
    
    Thanks to everyone for your advice.

    Trailer Boats magazine had a comment on the 4.3 V6 with 4bbl engine
    that may be relavent this discussion (though the base noter has made
    his choice). In their experience they have found that the 4.3 4bbl
    engine to "bog" when opened to full throttle from rest. They feel this
    is due to the amount of fuel being dumped into the relatively small
    engine by the big secondaries in the carb. So, those that go to the 4.3
    4bbl for the "extra power" may find themselves in the curious position
    having more power, but using less. Reading between the lines seemed to
    indicate that staying with less peak power or going to the small V8
    would be more rewarding. 
    
    john

    re .10

     John, 
     	I have the 205 HP 4.3 liter V6 you are talking about in my 174 Sunsport
    Baja, and I never experienced any bogging down of the engine with a 21 
    pitch prop I briefly had on the boat.
    
    	As in my case, the number one reason for low end performance problems 
    is first the prop pitch (I now have a 23 pitch SS), second the hull 
    size/weight/design and thirdly, amount of HP/torque. This is assuming there
    is no damage to the prop, engine or hull. I've been in boats with the same
    engine (ie 4.3 4bbl), and have experienced very good out of the hole 
    performance and, as in my own case, been in boats that have been proped for
    speed vs low end power/torque - and these boats do not do so well at the 
    low end of the rpm range (Right Rick :-). Overhub exhaust can sometimes 
    help here, as well as making a prop pitch, or blade design change.
    
    	Powerboat magazine has tested boats with the 4.3 V6 4bbl many times, 
    and the performance tends to vary given different hull/size/weight/design
    and prop configurations.  
    
    								-mike-

    Thank you for your experiences with this setup. I could only report
    what I have read about it, and the only reason I did so was that it
    seemed that they found this to be almost universal on the boats setup
    with this powerplant. As you say there are many variables, however if I
    had to buy a boat untested in the water I might choose a different
    powerplant based the article alone since I'd have no way of predicting
    the results due to my limited knowledge of the other factors you
    describe. 
    
    john

    re .12
    
    John,
    
    	I took a look at the power/rpm/speed curves from Powerboat magazine
    last night, comparing the V6 4.3 (205 HP) powered boats with other
    boats of similar size (hull design and prop pitch) but powered by V6 
    (175 HP) and V8 (260 HP) Mercruiser power plants - and their low end 
    performance just didn't look that much different. So I'm really at a loss 
    to explain their findings...
    
    	Your 100% correct, your milage may vary..and so could your boats
    overall performance given just a slight change in any single area.
    That's why it's really important, whey buying/shopping for a boat, to
    get information from many different sources (ie. magazines, dealers,
    notesfile, friends, etc..) rather then any one place. This is true with
    any substantial purchase.
    
    	John, thanks for the 4.3 V6 info from Trailer magazine, I think
    it's very interesting. I'll try to get a copy and look into it further.
    
    								-mike-
    
    	
    
    	

    I don't have a copy myself, being cheap I read my best friend's. I
    looked at it again this weekend, and yep, it said that *they* found
    that the egine would hesitate noticeably if throttle was opened wide
    too quickly, and *they* said that this was typical of the 4.3 4 bbl and
    that slowely opening the throttle was the workaround. But they did
    praise the Volvo duoprop for making it seem like the Rinker had a V8.
    
    I just found it to be something to think about/watch for.
    
    john

    Hey four winns owners howabout some prop pitch stories??
    
    
    I bought a 205 sundowner with a 235.  It has the factory prop (not
    sure what the pitch is) but I can only hit 4100 RPM,s and am going
    about 47 mph.  The mannual says max rpm's is 4200-4400 so I would
    think I am overproped.  Does anybody with a similar boat have the
    same experience and has any tried steel.
    
    
    thanks 

    
     Since you're only 100 rpm off the recommended max rpm range, you're
    only VERY SLIGHTLY OVERPROPPED. The next size down in pitch will
    probably give you too many RPMs (the sizes aren't that close together).
    
      A SS prop, because of it's thinner profile, will usually give a 300-500
    RPM increase compared to the same DIA and Pitch aluminum one. This sounds
    like exactly what you need. (SS props also will usually give a little
    more speed on the top end, AND are more durable - like when you
    run them through sand, they usually just get shiny, as opposed to
    aluminum props that get dinged from the little pebbles in the sand.)
    
    					Kenny

Is anyone willing to offer an opinion of the value of the following?
I am considering purchasing it for water skiing and family boating.

1988 180 Four Winns Horizon Bowrider
175hp 6 I/O
Transferible warranty with 22 months remaining
Includes drive on Four Winns trailer
Appears to be in good condition

Asking price dropped from 12,500 to 11,000

Thanks,
Stan

    
    Stan,
    
    That not a bad price at all, if the boat is clean, look like it has
    been taken care of, then go for it. The 175 hp will push the boat
    in area of 45 mph, depending on the pitch of the prop. The 175 has a lot
    of get up and go. In Trailer Boats, April issue, there is an article 
    on page 56, "Shootout". They take 5 boats equality equiped and test
    them. The boats are in the 17' range, Bayliner, Glastron, Sunbird, VIP
    and Four Winns. The boats are judged on Speed, fuel economy, handling,
    styling, interior comfort, ride, price, acceleration  0-30,
    construction, storage. So anyway the bottom line is 
    
    	Four Winns 41 points out of 60 available points
    	Glastron   39
    	VIP        37
    	Bayliner   32
    	Sunbird    31
    
    I have a '88 205 Sundowner with a 175 hp, I had very good service and 
    pleased with the product. My boat will do 40 mph, has no problems in
    pulling skiers out of the hole. 
    
    	Good Luck,
    
    
    	Mike