Conference vicki::boats

    The only dock place I've ever used is Center Harbor Dock Supply.
    Their the only ones I ever found or heard of! The do take M/C and
    use UPS for shipping...
    
    For floation I am sure you could pick up 55 gal drums for less
    money... 
    
    Joining a floating dock to a fixed dock can be pretty tricky. If
    your dock will be exposed to heavy water turbulence, your hinge
    area would have to allow for 12-18" of swing in either direction.
    
    All combo docks I've seen usually had a double hinge or something
    to quiet the wave action. 
    
    Fixed                                  Fixed  @high tide/wave up
    ______o                                _______o__o____________
           \ Low tide/wave drop         
            \o________ Floating

    If you are setting up on a lake, the hinge section can be short,
    but you must account for anticipated wave action. If you are expecting
    lots of waves, this hinge piece is going to take a lot of torque.

    This should help you identify the size of hinge you need. Again, if you
    want a marine hinge for deck construction, I'd recommend that you deal
    with Center Harbor docks of N.H. 

    I'll bring in the number and 5 year old price list if you want...

    
    
    	Instead of the typical 55 gallon drum, for floatation for
    my raft, I used plastic juice drums. They don't rust and also
    don't bang around all night long. I believe I paid 13 bucks
    each for them at a place in Northwood NH.
    
    Rick

    >>  For floation I am sure you could pick up 55 gal drums for less
    >>  money... 
    
    Careful...check the regulations in Mass. before using 55 gallon drums.
    I don't have a dock in Mass. but last year I was roaming through Spag's
    looking for some aluminum paint to paint my 55 gal. drums (my dock is
    in R.I.) and a guy asked me what I was using the paint for...when I
    told him he said that it's against the law in Mass. to use anything
    metal for floatation purposes, especially containers that were once
    used for storage of hazardous materials (like paint thinner, kerosene,
    oil, etc.).  I had never heard of this law...I know it doesn't exist in
    R.I. (although I think there's some merit to it).  Considering that
    boats pollute the waterways with gas and oil, just think how many
    people don't keep up with floatation maintenance and let them rot,
    spewing these chemicals into the water.  Plus the additional hazard of
    the drums rotting through, sinking and their sharp edges being very
    dangerous to water skiers, swimmers, boats, etc.
    
    Since there's no law against using 55 gal. drums in R.I. I use them,
    but I maintain them, painting them every year and checking for leaks.
    If I had the money, I would get some plastic floats in a second.  But
    at $75+ a whack (and I need at least 4 for the size dock I have) I'll
    keep painting my six 55 gallon drums.
    
    Food for thought...
    
    					...Roger...

	I just finished building a dock for use on a rather calm lake,
    comprised of redwood 2x6s for joists and 5/4x6 cedar decking for
    the floor. The cost of cedar decking was only a few � per foot more
    than the good P.T. and seemed to be a less toxic approach for lake
    use. The only recommendation I can make is _not_ to use redwood,
    at least not for the joists. It tends to split very easily, and
    the knots are hard as a rock. Thus, when you're nailing (I used
    20 penny hot-dipped galv) into a joist and hit a knot, a big hunk
    of the joist will split off while your nail makes a sharp detour
    around the knot.
    	For floats I lucked out and picked up some 60 gal. plastic fruit 
    juice barrels at Building 19 for $4.99 ea. Needless to say, they sold
    out in a day! THey were pretty grubby and smelled like a distillery,
    but for $4.99.....   
    	For hinges I just used two large eye bolts with a piece of
    galvanized pipe through the eyes and cotter pins to keep the pipe
    in place. It's a good arrangement for an all-floating lake application.
    	Does anybody have any good ideas for dock padding? I was going
    to use the standard old fire hose, but have been toying with the
    idea of trying some of the commercial dock guard stuff. Only problem
    is the price.... That stuff goes for around $4 to $5 a foot. Is
    it really any better than fire hose??
    
    Jon Pearson

    
      E&B Marine has dock padding at $35 for a 25' roll. Overton's discount
    marine has a wider assortment but I don't have their catalog handy.
    Check 'em out!
    
    					Kenny

    
    I'm looking for some ideas on how to best construct a couple of boat
    docks for my lake side shoreline. I have some givens/constraints:
    
    	- It must be a floatation - dock set-up, (the DEQE requires formal
    	  engineering plans for a fixed dock, that must be approved by the
    	  govener's office & take ~ 5yrs/$5k to get approved, thats the state
    	  of Mass for ya !). Anyway I'm just as happy with floatation since
    	  I don't have to wory about the ravages of winter ice, (I plan to
    	  simply pull the docks onto the shore in winter).
    
        - Looks like two 10'x4' sections will do (my current boat is ~17' and
    	  I doubt I'll be runnin anything bigger on this relatively small
    	  lake).
    
    	- I've already picked-up 15 fifty-five gallon plastic barrels (used
    	  to ship soft-drink concentrates) and plan to some how build
    	  cavities in the dock framing to coral them in, probally four per
    	  10'x4' section of dock (?).
    
    Someone suggested using a couple of strips of 1"x4" pt-decking secured
    under the dock to the frames on each end, slightly bosed to provide
    a ski or ramp to slide the docks on for seasonal beaching. These
    1"x4"'s would also assist in locking-in the barrels.
    
    Any other ideas ?  What experiences to folks have with decking (pt or
    the more expensive cedar)?  
    
    I know some of you lake-side boaters must have tackled this sort of
    project before. As for me, I've been trailering until I bought and
    built on this lake.
    
    Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated !
    
    Chuck
      

re                         <<< Note 572.0 by 2EASY::TODD >>>
>                       -< Need Advice-Dock Construction >-

>    	- I've already picked-up 15 fifty-five gallon plastic barrels (used
>    	  to ship soft-drink concentrates) and plan to some how build
>    	  cavities in the dock framing to coral them in, probally four per
>    	  10'x4' section of dock (?).

	Good start, but you'll probably only use four of them, one at 
each end of each section of dock, that'll give you about 800# of 
flotation in each one.  If you use drums in the middle you tend to get 
much worse rocking from passing boat wakes due to a teeter totter 
effect.  Also, be careful not to float the dock sections too high in 
the water - with a 17ft boat you could set yourself up for a fender 
problem later.

>    Someone suggested using a couple of strips of 1"x4" pt-decking secured
>    under the dock to the frames on each end, slightly bosed to provide
>    a ski or ramp to slide the docks on for seasonal beaching. These
>    1"x4"'s would also assist in locking-in the barrels.

	I don't understand this, maybe I'm reading it wrong.  
We built an 8 x 8 raft a couple of years ago from four of those juice
drums.  The sides (rim joists) were pt 6 x 2s and we added two more 6
x 2s to box in the barrels along their length, then blocking to box
them in across their width, then we scratched our heads to come up
with something to REALLY hold them in, we used some electrical cable
that just happened to be laying around, its worked out fine.  We also
built 3 dock sections that are 16 x 4ft out of the same stuff,
everything is decked with 6 inch 5/4 pt decking.  BTW, the dock is put
out each spring on trestles (saw horse sort of design) but we did that
before we found the juice drum supply. 

	This adds up to a lot of pt lumber that is heavy as all hell, 
even with four or five big strong guys around (and me).  We've talked 
about modifying the raft (especially the damned raft) to a design that 
uses the drums as rollers once it reaches the beach.  To do this we'd 
just losen up the drums, drill some holes in the end boards (if 
it was a house they'd be perimeter joists - I guess) to take iron pipe 
for the drums to roller against.  Geeze this is hard to describe !  It 
would take a pipe to act as an axle and a larger pipe over that to act 
as a roller, two of these would be needed per drum.


o o  < this represents the two pipe rollers, assume two axles and two rollers
 O   < this represents the juice drum

	When its floating the drums need to be tied in tight, when its 
being rolled up the beach take the ties off the drums, etc.  It may or 
may not be worth removing the pipes when the raft is floated, depends
on exactly how its built. 

>    Any other ideas ?  What experiences to folks have with decking (pt or
>    the more expensive cedar)?  

	pt is heavy, REAL heavy.  Also, it shrinks a lot, mainly due 
to the moisture content.  Don't bother leaving drainage gaps between 
the boards, even though it will be standing over water for 6 months of 
the year you will get plenty wide enough drainage gaps within a year.  
If you space the boards when you build it, within two or three years
the gaps will be big enough to catch a toe in, before that the kiddies 
will be getting their fingers trapped.  Of course, its poisonous and 
probably shouldn't be used around a lake anyway.  Please don't run the 
skil saw along the edges to trim it and let all the little off-cuts 
and sawdust fall in the lake.
      
	Reg	{when's the work (and beer and pizza) party for this 
			project anyway ?}

>   	- It must be a floatation - dock set-up, (the DEQE requires formal
>   	  engineering plans for a fixed dock, that must be approved by the
>   	  govener's office & take ~ 5yrs/$5k to get approved, thats the state
>   	  of Mass for ya !). 

    
    I'm real curious as to who/where you were informed about these Mass.
    requirements. What lake are you on? Are you sure that these
    restrictions apply to homeowners, and are not restricted to commercail
    docks? 
    
    I never heard of these state-wide rules when I built my dock on Lake
    Boone (Stow/Hudson). The only rule is from our local oridinances, and
    it says the dock can't extend more than 16 feet into the lake water.
    Even then, they (the Lake Boon association/police) never came and
    measured my dock. (Just as well, it's 18 feet so I can dock my 17'
    boat!) 

Use pt lumber.  I didn't and now I'm sorry.  I replaced almost half of the top
boards last year and probably should replace a couple more this year.  I used
regular pine 1x6s and they rotted out in about 3 years.  When I replace this
dock, it'll be all pt.

You shouldn't have to worry about taking the dock out of the water.  Rumor has
it that with the plastic drums the dock will just float up onto the ice.  I have
not yet confirmed this, although I will know this weekend when I go to the lake
and find that either my dock is sitting on the ice or has been crushed by it!

...Roger...

    
    
    Pressure treated wood is now illegal to use in NH lakes.  That is
    because of the chemicals in the wood.
    
    S

re            <<< Note 572.3 by ROGER::GAUDET "Nothing unreal exists" >>>
>                   -< Plastic drums float up onto the ice
 >-

> You shouldn't have to worry about taking the dock out of the water.  Rumor has
> it that with the plastic drums the dock will just float up onto the ice.  I have
> not yet confirmed this, although I will know this weekend when I go to the lake
> and find that either my dock is sitting on the ice or has been crushed by it!

	I'd believe that, the shape probably forces the barrels up as 
the ice squeezes in on them,  butt(tt)

	We  *_DO_*  know that ice moves around, especially if there's 
a boat out there throwing up a wake on the unfrozen part  (-:  ,so

	Make sure the raft, dock or whatever is also secured to the 
bottom by something that ice won't chew through, i.e.  GOOD STRONG 
CHAINS  -  this will also help deter snowmobilers from towing the raft 
and docks away for use as party benches.

	R

    re: last few
    
    One alternative to PT is cedar. I made a dock last year with redwood
    joists (not recommended) and cedar planking. The cedar ran for $0.67
    per linear foot - just a couple cents more than the best price I
    found on good grade PT. Cedar is naturally rot-resistant, however
    I am planning to give it a coat of Thompson's this Spring, just
    to make sure.
    
    The plastic juice barrels are great, but I had a couple leak through
    the openings in the top. Does anybody have any reliable way to seal
    these? I used GE Silicone, but found it did not adhere to the plastic.
    
    Jon

    
    I Had to Jump in. I have never built a dock BUT.... D.E.Q.E.
    Regulations state that if ANY CONSTRUCTION is to be done within 100
    feet of ANY waterway, that a application and enginerring plan be
    submited to the local conservation commision, D.E.Q.E., and if
    navigatible waterway (Dock For A BOAT) to the U.S. Army Corp of
    Engineers. All of these agencies will review the plans and hold
    hearings to determine the suitability of the project. Thaey may request
    that an enviormental impact study be proformed, ect....
    
    IMHO go with the floating dock made with 55 gal poly drums from fruit
    juice or food products.
    
    For the tops I would take a 4 X 8 sheet of plywood and coat it both
    sides with polyester resin. About $15 a Gal. Then resin in a box frame 
    to contain the barrels. Hold the barrels in with Nylon "Band-It" straps
    and you will have a light moveable dock that will never rot out and
    will never splinter.
    
    Hold the whole thing down with 5 gal buckets filled with concreat and
    chains. Cross them as you do with spring lines and they will not move
    back and forth but will go up and down with the water level.
    
                                               Walt
    

    Personally, I am highly partial to a stable dock.  For safety and
    convenience reasons.  Sometimes it's just too rough to load or unload
    people and equipment when your dock is moving.  Sometimes it's even
    harder just to unload yourself (like when you're loaded!  ;-) )
    
    Steve

    Heres another design that you can steal from offshore oil rigs.
    
    Mount your 55 gal poly barrels on a vertical alignment under your
    decking platform. Four barrels,  one in each corner. On the bottom of
    the barrels you will need to drill a few holes. 1 " dia would work
    fine. On the top of the barrel you will need to insert a valve into the
    bung hole. you will then be able to float the barrel raft/dock out to
    its mooring position and open the valves. the barrels will fill with
    water from the holes on the bottom. Continue this ballasting until you
    have reached the desired level ofg floatation, then .close the valves.
    
    You know have a very, very stable platform which is still floating but
    will not bounce around much in the waves. It will still accomidate
    fluctuations in water levels and qualify as a movable floating dock.
    
    Due to the fact that water within the drum will expand at the same rate
    as water surrounding it. I would think that Ice damage would be kept to 
    a minimum. But if you must hale the dock out for maintaince or due to
    regulations? It would be a simple matter to couple up a nettle valve
    onto a fitting which would screw into the valve. Then open the valve
    and pump air into the barrel with a bicycle pump, foot pump or portable
    compressor.
    
    If this is successful and all of your friends want a "Stabledock" TM.
    then just remember where to send the royalties.
    
                                           Walt
    

    re .6
    
     To seal up you leaks, try "lifecaulk" marine polysulphide caulking.
    It comes in small tubes and is available at most boating supply stores.

1)    Fill the barrels with poly-flow (styro "peanuts").  
                              
                              Or;
    
2)  At our plant we have this foam pump thingy that draws chemicals from 
    two barrels and squirts it into a mold that is then used to package stuff. 
    If you could get access to this equipment you would have unsinkable
    barrels.    
    
    Carl

 Topic  Author               Date         Repl  Title
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   147     BTO::JPETERS       9-SEP-1988     7  Mooring buoy materials
   271  BOSTON::SWIST        20-FEB-1989     5  Dock Parts
   356  CGVAX2::CLARK_J       1-MAY-1989     4  mooring construction

    
    Oh. To seal the plastic caps on Bung holes, Use a propane torch and
    melt them into the barrel. I did this with some for use as watering 
    buckets for pet geese. You can cut the barrels in half with a skill
    saw with combo blade.
    
    P.S. Melt them outside and don't breath the vapors!
    
                                          Walt
    

    
    
    Well I think this is just great !  Lots of different approaches, goes
    to show ya what alittle brainstormin can do. I feel the need to respond
    to some of the questions around regulations, and I'll think some on
    the design advise:
    
    The Mass laws I refer to mainly pertain to new construction. If an
    existing dock has been in place, you're grandfathered to maintain and
    as I understand it, even replace a "fixed" with dock with a fixed dock.
    
    I'm trying to recall, but I think the regulations are laid out in Mass
    General Laws G.L 190, but I'll have to check that, it was two years ago
    when we started this cause we needed a dredging permit (took 1 1/2 yrs
    to get approved). During this process, are application was assigned to
    a DEQE person that consulted us through everything (until he got
    reassigned, then his replacement got reassigned). Anyway, this guy sent
    us copies of the laws, indicating pertinate sections, advising us that
    the state was purposely trying to discourage "fixed docks". Thier
    method was to require elaborate plans and approval from the gov.. And,
    providing a simple low resistance method for getting a floatation dock
    approved (all it took was a short letter to the town selectman who
    by law have 10 days to process your floatation dock request).
    
    By the way, for those that like to gamble big time, its a $25K per day
    fine if the DEQE finds you just go ahead on your own without approval.
    (I just hope your neighbors are friendly and unaware of the laws).
    
    Thanks for the ideas, more are welcome !
    
    Keep warm thinkin of boating !
    
    Chuck T.
    

    re: .14

    
�    By the way, for those that like to gamble big time, its a $25K per day
							       ^^^^^^^^^^^^
								   WOW! 

�    fine if the DEQE finds you just go ahead on your own without approval.
�    (I just hope your neighbors are friendly and unaware of the laws).
    
	$25K/day!!! Are you sure it's not $25/day??

	I paid $20.00 for a lifetime floating dock permit in Maine that
	was passed without a hitch.

Jon

    The steep fines are there to discourage developers.
    In N.H. for example, there is legislation to up the fines from 5k to
    25k to discourage people who should "know better" from using the lower
    fine as a "business risk".
    DW

< Note 572.6 by SLALOM::PEARSON >
                  -< Look Into Cedar as an Alternative to PT >-

>    One alternative to PT is cedar. I made a dock last year with redwood
>    joists (not recommended) and cedar planking. 

    Jon,
	What was wrong with the redwood joists ?
                                               MaxH

    MaxH,
    
    The problem I had with redwood was that it split _very_ easily.
    Once a crack started, it would propagate down the joist, and the
    only way I could stop it was to use screws for awhile, then go back
    to nails (20 penny hd galv.). To compound this problem, the knots
    are rock hard and whenever a nail hit one, it went sailing off at
    an angle and split off a big piece of the joist. I suppose one could
    use clear redwood for the joists to avoid the knot problem, but
    then you're talking significantly more $$$$$$$$.
    
    I pre-drilled the cedar planking (to avoid splitting) using an actual 
    nail for a bit, which worked out nicely - made a jig on the drill
    press and cranked 'em right out.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Jon

    
    I got my new mail-in boat registration from the Mass Environmental
    police yesterday.
    
    It contained a little notice about docks.... (good thing my dock
    is in NH!) :-)
    
    	Attention: Masssachusetts Waterfront Property Owners
    
    	Chapter 91 Amnesty Period Ends October 4, 1995
    
    	Since 1866, the Commonwealth has required the owners of
    waterfront structures such as piers, wharves, docks, seawalls,
    or filled waterfront property to apply for licenses under
    Chapter 91 of the General Laws, also known as the Public
    Waterfront Act. The aim of the licensing program is to ensure
    that when structures are built in great ponds and inland and
    coastal waterways, they are safe and do not significantly obstruct
    navigation or public access.
    
    	Many waterfront structures are properly licensed, but owners of
    some have not come forward to seek state approval. If you own a 
    waterfront structure and either know or suspect it is unlicensed,
    you have a limited time to apply for authorization under Chapter
    91.
    
    	A Department of Environmental Protection amnesty program gives many
    owners of unlicensed structures until October 4, 1995 to apply for the
    required state approval. Once this grace period expires, those who have
    not applied will be at risk of enforcement action, including possible
    fines and penalties.
    
    For more information about Chapter 91 and the amnesty program write
    or call:
    
    		Department of Environmental Protection
    		Waterways Regulation Program
    		One Winter St., 8th floor
    		Boston, Ma 02108
    		617/292-5777
    
    
                                           

	Just spoke with the New Hampshire Wetlands Bureau about the NH
legal requirements on newly constructed docks in the state of NH. Seems
it requires a $50 Public Information Permit (PEP) along with a possible
inspection to make any dock legal. I've sent for the actual regs......

	Anyone care to wager how many docks in New Hampshire actually have
valid permits?

Jus' starting trouble....

Rick
                                           

    >  Anyone care to wager how many docks in New Hampshire actually have
    
    Maybe, but I have heard a bunch of instances (Including the 55 year
    old boatyard where I lease a mooring) that have gotten into deep
    doo-doo with the state for not having the proper permits.
    
    I was part of a group that attended a wetlands board hearing 10 years
    ago to get permission to clean out an old railroad culvert so that we
    could build a soccer field behind the school. They had decided that
    the water that had backed up as a result of the plugged culvert to
    be a "wetland". We did overwhelm them with 12 parents and a lawyer,
    (You should have seen the chairwoman's face when we all showed up 
    for the hearing), but it was clear that they were a very autocratic 
    organization that liked to push their weight around.
    
    You don't want to mess with them unless you have your act together and
    plenty of $ for lawyers fees.
    
    Bill
    

    
    
    Mass tried to implement a dock permit process for inland waters a few
    years ago.  The permit price was based on the length of the dock and
    was going to get real expensive in a hurry.  Enforcement relied on
    people calling up to turn you in.  After a flurry of calls, including
    mine, the State put the plan on hold and I haven't heard of it since.
    
    The details of the plan were completely out to lunch...something about
    posting a public access sign on the dock.
    
    Kevin
    

Any idea where I can quietly get copies of the regulations regarding approved
dock construction so I can see if the dock (a friend just built for me) is 
legal?  I don't know if he looked into regulations thoroughly before building
it as a present for my wife and me at our house on a lake in N.H. but after 
reading some of the entries in this notes file, I'm worried about it.

He used pressure treated lumber throughout and has it floated on empty 55 gal.
plastic drums from a laundry that previously held soap, etc.  

Also, what's the likelyhood that one of these drum's threaded stoppers will leak
and the whole mess will settle lower unless the drum was sealed properly.  The 
dock consists of two 9' sections each floated on a barrel and secured on one
end through dock plates to a concrete pad with a series of bolt-eyes lagged into
the concrete and a rod through the eyes and the dock plates.  On the end of 
the two 9' ramps is a 12' X 12" float also of PT lumber on 4 barrels secured
underneath in a wood frame/cradle and held in place by the frame plus a couple
of lengths of nylon rope on each barrel.

Any comments on the over-all construction as well as where to find out quietly
if it's legal.

thanks,
Don

    I would be more concerned about the permits required than the details
    of construction. If you did not have the required permits from the town
    and state (wetlands board ) I think you may find yourself in
    non-compliance and may be required to remove it. I haven't been there
    myself but am aware of numerous parties that have gotten in trouble by
    building docks without permits, including the boatyard on
    Winnipesaukee, where I keep my boat.
    
    Bill