Conference vicki::boats

Bill,

	My 5.7L OMC (sunbird) does not have a PS cooling unit or talk about one.
BTW, how do you get enough Antifreeze into the block w/o running the engine?
pouring it down the hose will not work will it?

		garry

    re .1	Yes, pouring it down the hose doesn't work.  Among other
    things the thermostat is probably shut and the circulating pump
    is kinda in the way and....., etc.   I disconnect the top hose and
    bottom fill from the block drain 'til it dribbles out the top hose
    and thermostat houseing, just like filling the out drive with lube,
    which is how I got the idea.  Seems to work great once you find the right
    sized plastic tube to connect with and a funnel to go along with
    it, but its kinda slow.

    	R
    

    
    RE: Antifreeze-into-the-block
    
    		last fall on a Mercruiser, I followed the manual
    by removing the thermostat and it's housing and pouring in there.
    
    Rick

    If you pull both the input and output hoses to the thermostat and
    fill both, the entire engine gets treated. Also, pour until it runs
    out of the prop exhaust hub. That should be from filling the INPUT
    hose to the thermostat---works for me!!

Bill,

	This weekend I pulled out the owners manual (rather than the shop
manual) and say the comment about power steering cooling drainage.  I too
looked HIGH and LOW and cannot see any power steering connection to the cooling
lines in any way/shape/form.  After showing the manual to a disinterested,
nonboating, third person they seemed to READ the manual different than I did.
Their interpretation was that the cooling only applied to the 7.0L (?) engine
not the 5.0L and 5.7L models.  Did you have any luck finding yours this weekend?

	BTW, I tried the suggestion of disconnecting the input hose and feeding
antifreeze into the engine (while running).  You have to be fast so as to keep
liquid in the engine.  While this worked, more went thru the exhaust manifolds
and out the exhaust than into the block I suspect.  When I went to drain the
block, the concentration of Antifreeze seemed too low to be meaningfull.  I
think I will ty adding antifreeze directly to the block next weekend IF I can
find the right sized tube (any dimentions anyone?).

	The OMC drainage provided seems to be fairly complete.  The 3 water
drain screws in the outdrive are a nice touch!  After dealing
with several inboards of my friends, I cannot believe that there is significant
water left in the block to do any damage.  Most inboards I have helped with do
not seem to drain the block as complete.  Therefore, if one was to just follow
the manual and drain everything, then add antifreeze to the water pump intake
to "lubricate and protect" the impeller it appears that should be sufficient.
Do you antifreeze advocates add it "just in case" (ala cheep insurance method)
or baised on personal experience (disaster)??  Whats the word on this?

		garry

    
    No Garry I didnt find anything. I believe you may be right and it's
    meant for the bigger engine. I finished all the cleaning and getting
    the waxing done. I'll finish with the rest during the week.
    Thanks for looking into it. Seems everything is drained, I dont
    forsee any problems. Your right too, all the drains and other areas
    were very accessable. I found it easy to work on.
    
    See ya.
    
     

    re .5	Send me your mail stop, I'll send you a length of tubing
    that *_SHOULD_* fit.  If it doesn't then unscrew your drain cock
    completely and take it to the hardware store, for the other end
    get a funnel that the tube will just squeeze through tightly.
    
    re   Cheap insurance  vs  personal experience;  I like to sleep at
    night, especially in the winter.  I know someone who didn't winterize
    one year though, round about January he figured it was too late
    anyway.  When he came to  "Springize"  it the following season, it
    had just blown out a couple of freeze plugs, he hammered them back
    in and has used the boat ever since (I think its three years).  He's
    probably used anti freeze  "most"  years since then, at least drained the
    block:-^)

    
	Reg
    

    
    
    re: Insurance vs experience...
    
    	I read that reply as asking whether to use antifreeze or
    just drain the block..... a few ideas...
    
    	The jury seems to be split 50/50. The leave it dry
    side of the house says "You won't end up with a seal that
    has been half lubricated all winter long" while the use
    antifreeze side says "You won't end up with dried out seals"..
    
    Rick

    I never considered anti-freeze vs lubrication.  My experiance tells me
    that there is always the possibility of small pockets of water trapped
    in the cooling system.  These could freeze in a small pocket and do
    some damage to the water jacket passages.  Filling with antifreeze from
    the draincock up "should" displace any water left behind.  Also, the
    antifreeze provides some protection against rust in the water jacket.
    If it also help lubricate impellers and pumps more power to it!
    
                                          Tom
    

    I have an alternative to the time-consuming task of "bottom-filling"
    from the drain cocks and up through the block. Why not take off
    the large hose from the water pump to the T-stat at the T-stat and
    pour into that hose? This is what I did last year on my OMC 4.3l,
    and I managed to get around 2 gallons of liquid poured in which
    required all of 3 minutes. This year I'm going dry, I don't want
    to contribute to a potential polyester shortage; that could drive
    the price of ties out of reach! (cheap ties, that is!) 
    But seriously, I don't think the antifreeze is good for the lakes,
    and I really don't like the idea of running it through my bilge,
    either. As my marina recently put it, what in the world would he
    do with 1200 engines full of antifreeze in the spring? 
    
    Getting back to the topic of this topic, my power steering unit
    has a cooler which is directly behind the head on the starboard
    side. It has a hose which runs to/from the thermostat housing along
    the starboard side of the engine. The hose, which is about 1" in
    diameter, also can be disconnected from the thermostat housing and
    lowered to the bilge to drain the P/S cooler. After wrestling with
    my unit's drain plug last year, my dealer has tipped me off to this
    convenient feature of using this hose to drain the cooler. 
    
    Big tip for new winterizers of I/Os: don't be afraid to take the
    engine's housing/cover completely off instead of working around
    it; mine comes off with the very easy removal of 4 screws on brackets
    on the forward inside bulkhead of the access cover. It's a whole
    new world in there without that cover in your way. Removable covers
    are not available in all styles of I/Os, just the smaller varieties
    like under 24 feet!
    
    Mike

    RE: .10
    
>    	    But seriously, I don't think the antifreeze is good for the lakes,
>    and I really don't like the idea of running it through my bilge,

    	Why would either case happen? Case #1.. Anyone should be shot
    for dumping antifreeze into the lake! The solution is to run it
    on the trailer for spring recommisioning. Also this gives you
    the chance to make sure everything is OK before getting to the 
    boat ramp. (See note titled "Circus at the boat ramp")
    
    Case #2... Does your exhaust blow into the bilge?

    
    Rick

	Does pouring Antifreeze into the 3" water pump feeder hose (comming from
the T-stat) really work?  I would think that the water pump would have to be
moving in order to allow the liquid to pass by the impeller.

	BTW, one another note, does everyone lubricate the "innerds" with the
OMC/MERC internal FOG stuff the marina's sell.  A few of the Marina's I have
observed use good 'ol WD-40 in bulk style.  I would assume the importance of
doing this is to protect internal parts that might rust over the winter.  As
a result I used WD-40 on my rig this year rather than paying big $$ for
something that *might* be no better.   Any thoughts??

		Garry

    
    re: Garry
    
    	I use Mystery oil for fogging and WD-40 for spraying
    the exterior metal (read rustable) surfaces.
    
    Rick

    I've stored cars and boats winters and used "fogging" sprays as well as
    light engine oils (5w20) poured into the carb while running then dumped
    in to cause stall.  Never had any problems either way so lately used
    the motor oil as the cheapest way out.
    This year went to Cadcraft (JC Boats) in Nashua and got to talking
    with the mechanic for JC Boats. He was real high on synthetic injector
    oil for fogging. Rust preventative, high residual coating effect, 
    remains viscous to -50F, easy starting next year with minimum of smoke.
    He then started telling me about synthetic oils in general and relating
    his experiance (with boat engines and race cars, which he is also
    active in).  He made a good case..anyone have any personal experiance
    with synthetics?  (maybe this should be in a new topic)
    

    Garry,
    
    Yes, water will flow through the water pump on the engine without
    the engine spinning. Look at a water pump sometime if you get a
    chance, it's a very loose-fitting impeller that moves the water;
    there's plenty of room for water to slide on by...
    
    Mike_who will start his engine next spring and let the fresh water
    just drip on the ground and still sleep at night afterwards...

    I was winterizing my 1987, 4.3 l omc cobra a couple of weeks ago and
    got kind of a surprise. The previous two years it was done by the
    marina, so it was my first time. I always thought that the 4 drain
    plugs on the block and manifolds removed all/most of the water.
    In the early and late part of the season I frequently open these
    after use in case we get a good freeze. I decided to pull the hoses
    around the water pump and manifold just in case. Even though the
    water had finished coming out of the drains, a tremendous amount
    of water came out of the hoses, and also more water started coming out
    of the drains....be sure to do this if your in the habit of just
    opening the drains...
    
    Marty

re                        <<< Note 177.16 by HYEND::WOOD >>>
>                         -< cobra 4.3 l owners beware >-

	Yep, you're probably seeing the effects of air locks, its one 
of the reasons they usually tell you to take the hose(s) off the 
thermostat housing, or break the vacuum in some other way - I guess 
there's no substitute for doing the whole job...., i.e. anti-freeze. 
I have seen one (and heard about other) 4.3 l blocks cracking in the
vee, even though they were "drained". 

	Reg {winterize by new year} B.