Conference vicki::boats

    	I've got an Eagle 6000 and the transducer is mounted insid the
    hull. I like the inside configuration because it is much less apt
    to be damaged etc. The fish finder is ok but if I was to buy a new
    one I'd look for something better. The shallow water performance
    is not that good although I gotta admit I don't know how others
    perform in this area.
    
    Paul

    Jim is It?
    I also have the Eagle 6000 and I find it to be o.k. I would vote
    for a thru-hull transducer, I've had both and compaired transom
    and tru-hull with both LCD and Flasher.
    
    An LCD is Ok for Genral Purpose running, But a paper chart is what's
    needed for detail. I'm running both next year. Also a color Video
    is better than a L.C.D.
    If your interested in Color ,Check them all out at the Sportfishing
    show this month in Bos. There are MAJOR differances.
    
    BTW- Which Thundercraft do you have? The one from Canada? Or the
    One
    from down South USA.  What Model?
    
                                         Walt
    

    Just an addition to my last note.
    
                     THRU_HULL Means Drill a hole in the bottom of
                     the hull and mount the transducer protruding
                     from the bottom.
    
    Not inside hull mounting. Which do you have paul?
    

    re: .2,.3
    
    My THundercraft come from the plant in Tenn. It's the
    Sierra model with a 205 hp V6 alpha 1 drive.
    
    Also I really don't want to make holes in the hull. I have seen
    them where they are bonded to the hull inside a bulble filled
    with oil.

    Re .3> 
    	Mine is mounted inside the hull in an oil filled box. It seems
    to be sensitive enough so I don't think there is much attenuation
    by the hull material. Also, with my V hull, mounting the transducer
    flush with the hull surface would throw the transducer off vertical
    by 19 degrees (the deadrise of my hull). The inside mount allows you 
    to compensate for that. 
    
    Paul

    
    To solve the problem paul mentioned about the dead rise angle of
    the transome mount transducer you just mount the tranducer at a
    lifting strake, this puts the angle of the tranducer pointing straight
    down and you want it to point slightly forward. My transducer was
    mounted on the angled part of the transome and I moved it onto
    a lifting strake and it performs much better. I have a sitex 357
    4 inch paper it is great for showing detail but you do go through
    alot of paper if you like to leave it running. I have used at least
    10 rolls this year at $6/roll. I have seen Walt's 6000 LCR and the
    picture does not compare to the paper, the high end lowrance LCR's
    have much better resolution and cost around $500. If I were to
    buy now I would get the best color machine I could afford. Although
    I would not mind having a lowrance X-16 paper chart also.
    
    Bruce

    I have mine on a transome mount. The only place I can get at the
    bottom is VERY close to the engine (I/O) and I'm worried about engine
    noise in the line. I also have it mounted right at a lifting strake
    eliminating the deadrise problem. 
    I expect to get a new unit this year, probably an Interphase 20/20
    video that has speed, surface temp and distance log. Obviously this
    has to go either through the hull or on the transome because of
    the transducer having to be in contact with the water. I have a
    flasher/graph combination unit now and just don't want the hassle
    of the paper and drive assembly.
    The Interphase 20/20 can be had for under $300.00 and seems to work
    very well. (fished with one in 200' of water with GREAT results)
    
    Don

    re: .6,.7
    
    I know this may sound foolish, but what is the lifting strake?

    The lifting strakes are the 'notches' or flat surfaces that are
    on the smae plane as the surface of the water on V hulled boats.
    They help the boat come up  on a plane.
    
    		\         /
                 \       /
                  -     -  <--Lifting strake (very deep V hull!)
                   \   /
                    \ /   
                                                                
    Bruce

    
    
    Does anyone have any info/recommendations/opinions on PENN YAN boats???
    
    
    						    -rb-

    Re: Penn Yan
    
    Excellent boats, difficult to get a "deal"on, not a "price" boat.
    They are built about 30 mi from here and have a very good reputation.
    They are popular fishing and cruising boats for Lake Ontario because
    of their relatively wide beam. They used to make a "Tunnel Drive"
    single screw inboard that has the prop recessed into a "tunnel"
    in the bottom. It draws very little water but for some reason has
    not caught on in popularity. I almost bought one in '82, but it
    was just out of my price range. Given another chance, I would go
    for it.
    As far as I know, they now make a full range of I/O, OB and
    conventional inboard drive boats. If you want, I can gat a catalogue
    and send it to you.
    
    Let me know!
    
    Don

    
    
    I know they are a nice looking boat!! I plan on using it for Champlain/
    Ontario fishing and it does seem to be set up quite well. The one
    I was looking at was the 212 Tournament (8' beam), 205 4.3 liter
    Mercruiser. Lots of storage. Just wondering if anyone can give me
    a ballpark figure on what they think the price would be do I can
    tell if I'm getting screwed or not.....
    
    
    							-rb-

    I have an APELCO XCD 50 fish finder. It has an LCD readout, and I agree
    it probably lacks the detail of a color or paper recorder. I have a
    200 KHZ transom transducer.  Does anyone know if this finder can 'see'
    fish near the bottom?  Does anybody have experience with this type of
    finder?  Comments?
    
    Jeff

    Make that an APELCO 350 on my last entry.  
    
    Jeff

    
    
    Jeff,
    
       Your fishfinder should show fish on the bottom, believe me for what
    you gain in a color graph its probably not worth buying one unless you
    have a hardtop boat or a boat that you can leave the top up. the sun is
    a crt nightmare, the glare is terrible. I put a top on my boat and its
    been on since I put the fishfinder on.
    
        I have a RAY JEFFERSON COLOR TELSCAN 2000, its a great unit, except
    for the sun problem, but I have my old lcd mounted on the downrigger
    board in the back of the boat also, the only problem there is the lcd
    transducer signals mess up the color graph it cant distinquish which 
    signals to read.
    
    
    
    
                                                            Lee
    

    Tx. for the input Lee. The APELCO saved me from hitting a mid-lake rock
    on Lake Mesabesic (near Manchester, N.H.) about a month ago. There was
    a rock right out in the middle of the Lake about six inches below the
    surface.... isolated.  The fishfinder showed the bottom coming up fast
    and I chopped the throttle.  There was the rock right ahead of me. It
    paid for itself right there!  Most of the rocks in that lake are marked
    but not that killer.  I wish the resolution of rocks and stuff on the
    bottom was better.. the lcd display shows rocks as more or less square
    blocks because of the pixel resolution of the screen. But it does show
    bottom features ok.  Polaroid sunglasses with the LCD screen are an
    interesting combination.  Very hard to see the screen with Polaroids on.
    Sometimes its a toss as as to what is worse.. the glare of the sun with
    no glasses or not being able to easily read the LCD screen.  know what
    you mean about the sun being a fish finder nightmare.  What does a
    color display 'buy you' over LCF black and white?
    
    Jeff
     

    re: -1 
    I had the same problem with my color crt (ray Jefferson) with amber
    polorized sun glasses on.  When I switched to polorized grey lenses it
    is much better.  Grey provides the least color distortion.
    
    Anyone know about Lowrance combination fishfinder/loran.  I believe
    that it's a color LCD display.  Are they good, bad, average, etc.
    
    How much of a difference will I notice from using a CRT screen.
    
    Thanks, Gordon
    

    Jeff,
      
      The advantage to a color graph is it shows every detail, mine
    actually shows seaweed on the bottom, in sodus bay (lake ontario) my
    graph looks like I am looking at a cornfield.
    
       the color graphs shows a diferent color for different densities of
    fish, example baitfish are red and yellow fish show as blue or red
    depending on the density of the fish. mine shows different colors for
    rocky bottoms and sand/mud bottoms. that thing is unbelievable!!!
    
      I know what you mean about rock piling coming up fast, we dont really
    have a problem with that out here on the great lakes but the bays and 
    rivers are nasty sometimes. I personally would  never even think of
    going out with a boat without some type of depth finder.
    
    
                                                  Lee
    

    Moved by moderator...
    
================================================================================
Note 977.0         Looking for depth finder and ship to shore         No replies
WMOIS::LEBLANC_DEN                                    3 lines   4-MAY-1992 15:53
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Looking to purchase a ship to shore (built in) and a depth finder for
    ocean use.  Any idea on used or good priced new??
    

    Try Goldberg Marine...   1-800-BOATING.  They seem to have an extensive
    line and good prices.
    
    Jeff

    An old depth finder was included in the boat I purchased. It's one of
    those with the spinning pointer with a red line representing the depth.
    
    I realized that it doesn't register the depth after I launched the boat
    for the season. It does have power and the red neon displays at the
    12 o'clock position. I wire brushed the bottom of the transducer when I
    was painting the bottom so that's not the problem. I also cleaned the
    connector on the wire coming from the transducer into the rear of the
    display head. Still no depth signal.
    
    1. Anyone have an idea of what's wrong?
    2. If the answer is trash the unit, can the existing transducer (it's
    200khz) be reused with a newer LCD unit (that also calls for 200khz)?
    
    If the answer is to replace everything, I'll wait till next spring when
    the boat's out of the water and the transducer can be replaced.

>>    An old depth finder was included in the boat I purchased. It's one of
>>    those with the spinning pointer with a red line representing the depth.
    
    
    That type depth sounder is called a "Flasher".

    
    Al - Your problem could be almost anywhere. It could be the transducer
    itself, it could be a bad cable from the transducer, or you could have
    a problem with the electronics inside the depthfinder. As far as
    reusing the transducer on a new unit goes... I suppose you could 'in
    theory' but it may be what is bad AND it is likely difficult to find a
    new unit that does *not* come with one... not to mention that unless
    you get exactly the same kind, the connector will likely be different.
    
    				Kenny

    Actually, I prefer to go new with temp and speed capabilities. It's not
    workth pulling the boat though (24') to mounte a new tranducer before
    next season. I'm even considering trim tabs since this is an early OMC
    that has either all the way up or down for the outdrive. Not  a lot
    of information here on trim tabs though.

    
    
              Question: Can a transducer be damaged from shock? If so how?
    
    My reason for asking is this...Early in the spring @ about 35mph my
    
    transducer came detached from my transom and ended up swinging
    
    violently back and fourth against the transom. It was one hell of a
    
    noise, like I thought I blew up the motor. Anyway, it only works to
    
    about 20ft then starts flashing numbers at random; 80ft-113ft-76ft,
    
    the depth range will also change repeatedly, sometimes correcting
    
    itself, most all of the time, not! The speed display was also not
    
    working at all, though the paddle wheel seemed OK. I sent it out to
    
    Humminbird and $63 and some change it was back in the boat. The speed
    
    indicator is working fine again, the rest of the unit, not! Same pro-
    
    blems! It seems to me the unit is lacking sensitivity because the only
    
    way I can use it is with the power/sensitivity turned all the way up.
    
    I guess I should assume the unit is ok and that a transducer (as rugged
    
    as it looks) CAN be damaged internally. The unit is a TCRID1 (the one
    
    that shows fish in red). Maybe some one in the So. New Hampshire area
    
    has one of these in their boat that I can plug mine into for trouble
    
    shooting purposes. Thanks,
    
                                        Jeff (Captain)
                                        Team Starcraft

    I was having a similar problem with my digital Lowrance. i.e. worked
    fine then gave false readings on real deep water or fast speeds. Turned
    out to be the transducer went bad. I took the head only to a repair
    shop and they checked my head out for free in return for buying the
    transducer from them. I didn't negotiate this, they offered. Ask your
    repair dealer if he will offer the same.

    Steve, but do you know WHY it went bad. Do you know what makes them
    tick (no pun intended)? I also got an idea from the FISHING_V2 conf.
    that it might not be getting enough power, although deep down inside
    I think the $40 for the new transducer will be leaving my wallet real
    soon. Thanks,
    
    
                                              Jeff (Captain)
                                              Team Starcraft

    I am trying to mount my Hummingbird's transom-mount transducer on the 
    fiberglass transom of my '64 Whaler.   I've tried different length
    screws but they won't tighten up and eventually just pull out.  How do
    others handle this problem??
    
    I thought of maybe cutting a small square hole and fiberglassing in a
    piece of wood to mount the transducer to.   Before I take the Sawzall
    to my transom, does anyone have a better idea?
    
    Thanks for any advice,
    
    -Stevie D

    
    	Don't use screws even if you were lucky and you hit the plywood
    stiffner it is not that strong.  What you need to do is through bolt
    it.  If it were me I would put a backing pad in at the same time but
    the loads are probably not high enough to require this.  Also when
    bolting it make sure that you get some kind of flexible sealer into the
    holes to try and keep moisture out.  As always use high quality
    Stainless Steel parts.
    
    
    Forrest

    	It's not possible to through bolt that low in the transom of a
    Whaler.  I've got a 15ft. Whaler and all I did was follow the directions
    that came with my Eagle LCD.  I predrilled the holes just a little
    tight (minor diameter of the screws) siliconed the holes and screwed it
    all together.  It feels rock solid and it stays put at 50+ MPH.
    	You could also call Boston Whaler at 617-871-1400 and ask for
    customer service.  They were real good when I talked with them about
    mounting a bow mount electric on the boat.
    
    					B.C.

    I would drill the holes 2-3 times the diameter of the screw, fill the
    holes completely with thickened epoxy (with high density silica
    filler) and after it has cured, drill the epoxy to take the screws,
    using the normally undersized drill for that screw size. The West
    system maxi kits (and mini kits, I think) contain everything you need
    including resin, filler ,mixing pots spreading sticks and syringes.
    I believe the mini kit is well under $10 and the maxi under $15.
    
    Bill
    

    RE: .30 

    	I am very aware that the hulls are foam filled.  But that does not
    mean that they cannot be through bolted.  It may make doing it somewhat
    more difficult but it can be done.  I am very conservative when it
    comes to mouting fitting and tend always through bolt and use backing
    pads.  Most mass produced boats tend to skimp in this area this
    includes Boston Whaler.


    RE:	.31

    	Actually, if you check the Gougeon booklets on what he wants to do
    the procedure is slightly different.  Drill a hole to the desired
    diameter.  Then take a nail and bend the end over about 1/8 or 1/4 of
    an inch or use an allen (sp?) wrench.  Put it in a drill and run it
    around the edge of the hole and bore out a larger hole in the core. 
    Then fill the whole area with thickened epoxy.  You now have two
    options:


    1) When it is starting to set up you can now insert the screw.  Once
    the epoxy sets up you can remove the screw by heating it slightly. 
    Then reattach the mount solidly adding a little flexible caulk and it
    should be more than strong watertight.

    2) Let the filled hole set up completely and then drill a slightly
    smaller hole and install as before.  Again I would use a little
    flexible silicon caulk.


    Forrest

    RE: .32
    	I guess I should have said that you can't through bolt in that part
    of a Boston Whaler without doing a severe hack job on the inner hull
    and then digging down through several inches of foam.  In my opinion
    that is NOT an option.
    					B.C.

    Hey guys, 
    
    Thanks for all the great replies!!
    
    Re: .29
    
    I can't through-bolt my transducer because the mounting position is
    below floor level; i.e. there's no place to go "through" to.
    
    Re: .30 
    
    I tried drilling the holes small, but I just couldn't get the screws tight
    enough to give me confidence in the mounting.
    
    Re: .31 
    
    Where can you pick up this West system epoxy?   I've worked with
    regular epoxy before, and on vertical applications it seems to drip out as 
    fast as I apply it.  Could I tape some wax paper over it till it
    hardens?
    
    Re: .32
    
    Your suggestion of using a hole that's bigger at the core and filling
    it with epoxy sounds like it would work the best, as it reduces the
    chances of the hardened epoxy pulling out.  By the way, what's the Gougeon 
    booklets?
    
    -Stevie D

    RE: .32

    	Without knowing quite a bit more about the specific hull of this
    whaler, and the transducer mount I would not want to speculate on the
    work needed to through bolt.  In a past career I worked for a boat
    builder and later as a Naval Architect.  At that time the recommended
    industry guideline was to through bolt fittings.  Unless that looked to
    be very difficult it would be my first choice.

    	I currently maintain 2 whalers for a sailing program on one through
    bolting would be a major task, on the other it would be simpler than
    the epoxy slug technique.  On the boat under discussion which according
    to the note was made in 1964 I would not want to guess.  He already had
    screws pull out so for what ever reason the mount is under a pretty
    fair load.  The epoxy slug that is screwed into may be sufficiently
    strong, then again it may not.  The person doing the actual installation
    needs to decide how much effort he wants to expend in making sure it
    will not pull out again.

    	Several alternatives have been suggested lets leave it up to him to
    decide what to do.   I have used the epoxy technique, not to screw into
    but to provide a moisture barrier on a cored hull.  It was just fine
    for that and I know that the Gougeon Brothers have used it to mount
    deck hardware that was under moderate load with no problems.


    Forrest

    RE: .34
    
    	The Gougeon Brothers started doing research with using epoxy in
    boat construction and repair back in the 60's.  The have published a
    number of books and booklets on using epoxy to build and repair wooden
    and fiberglass boats.  The are very well known and have a extensive set
    of reserach data to back up their publications.  
    
    	The prepackaged West System kits are available at many marine
    supply places.  I know that West Marine in Peabody carries their stuff
    as do others.  The last time I called they were in Bay City Michigan.
    If you call their technical assistance line they would be able to give
    specific recommendations on how to install the transducer.  They should
    be able to tell you who in the area stocks their material.  Failing
    that I know that they will gladly sell and ship you what you need.
    
    
    Forrest

    Would there be anything wrong with just epoxying a small block of wood to
    the bottom of my transom?  I could then screw my transducer directly
    into that block.  Would the transducer work ok like this or does the
    performance suffer if it's not attached directly to the transom?
    
    If I have to use the epoxy plug method suggested in an earlier note, is
    there an epoxy I can use that doesn't run so easily?  I've tried
    waiting till it thickens a bit but then it gets all lumpy.   How about
    taping wax paper or something similar over the hole to keep the epoxy
    in place until it's dry?
    
    This was alot easier on my old aluminum boat... 8-)
    
    -Stevie D

    
    There is a two part epoxy called "Loctite Liquid Weld" that has a
    thick consistency. And I just happened to use it to mount my transducer
    to the transom. I drilled a slightly smaller hole than the screws,
    applied the liquid weld into the hole so that some went all the way
    through, and then ran the screws in. Afterwards I put a small amount
    of silicon sealant around the screw head.
    
    So far, no problems at all.
    
    Craig

    	You could use a small block of hardwood with the transducer screwed
    on better yet bolted to the block.  Then you can epoxy the block to the
    hull.  This should give a nice strong bond assuming you do the
    following:

    	1) Sand the hull with a rough grit paper enough to remove any wax,
    	   crud, bottom paint etc.  Do not sand through to the glass it is
    	   not needed.

    	2) Mix up the epoxy with some thickener to fill and gaps and voids
    	   in the block.  Also to make sure that any difference between
    	   shape of block and hull is accounted for.

    	I would liberally coat the block of wood with epoxy on all surfaces
    several coats.  Between each coat you only need to wait until it is
    tacky after you have several coats let it dry.  If you let it dry for
    several days then lightly sand the epoxy to remove any curing amines
    that have migrated to the surface.  This is the slick feeling substance
    you feel on epoxy coated surfaces that have dried for several days. If
    I was doing it I would lay a fillet around all edges of the block and
    sand nice smooth.  This does two things smooth the transition around
    the edge of the block and gives a little more bonding area (read
    strength).  When it is done paint the block as epoxy breaks down under
    prolonged exposure to UV light.

    	Most epoxy mixtures are quite runny, the trick is to thicken it to
    a peanut butter like consistency.  Not the soft runny peanut butter but
    more like the stiffness it has when on a cool day and it has been left
    out.  This is a real art and depending upon what you are doing is the
    real make or break stage.  If you get it to thin is sags and runs, too
    thick and you cannot spread and smooth it.  I have thrown away more
    batches of too thick than I care to talk about.  For what you will be
    doing this is not super critical unless you plan on adding nice fillets
    around the wood block assuming you go that route.

    	Also when mixing it use large shallow mixing pots.  Epoxy sets up
    and gives off heat, the more heat the faster the cure and to a certain
    extent the more brittle the final product.  On a cool day 50 - 60
    degrees a slow hardener mix can be workable for a very long time.  In
    the summer on a hot day even slow hardener can become unworkable in 10
    - 12 minutes.

    Forrest

    What a project this has grown into!

    While you're doing all this, you might as well add some resin
    colorant to the epoxy mixture, so you don't end up with a
    garish unasthetic block of wood.

    
    	Depends upon your skill and patience.  I would budget less than 2
    hours spread over a couple of days to really do it up right with the
    wood block.  For the epoxy plug/slug method make that 30 minutes to an
    hour spread over 2 days.  The advertisement that says you can pay me
    now or pay me later has it right.  Quick and dirty is fine if that is
    acceptable and you are willing to live with maybe redoing the work
    again at a later date.  With either of these approaches I would expect
    that he will spend about as much time getting the suppiles as he will
    doing the actual work.
    
    
    Forrest

	I found that the depth/fish finder was more trouble than it was worth.
When I had one on the previous boat I relied on it a lot to tell me how far
I was from the bottom, I seemed to find rocks every other week that way  )-: 
Since running the Nautique without a depth/fish/rock finder I have had much
better luck avoiding  "fast moving underwater obstructions"   This may also be
partly due to the fact that it actually draws less water than an I/O with the
drive down  and the fact that I'm a little more cautious in shallow water now,
knowing that I can't  "trim up"  if I get int too shallow.

	I don't fish, but have heard that fisher folks who know how to fish
know where to fish and don't need a gadget to confirm their knowledge - can't
comment on that any further (-:    

	Reg

    That's it...I'm selling this boat and buying one that has the
    transducer already installed!!
    
    Just kidding...It is turning out to be more work that I orignally
    planned; but with my luck (and some help from Murphy) the tranducer
    would probably pull out at the most inopertune time...like next spring 
    when I'm at Lake George and the temp is 38 degrees and the salmon are
    hitting non-stop...
    
    As a previous noter said, better to do it right the first time!
    
    Thanks again for all the replies.
    
    -Stevie D

    1 LAST OPTION:
    
             Get a 12" x 12" (or so) piece of marine grade plywood and bolt
    that to the back of the transom, leaving the bottom edge of the plywood
    "even" with the bottom of the transom. Now you can mount all your
    sensors to that board with confidence.
    
    
                                     Jeff (Captain)
                                     Team starcraft

    
    	I have an Apelco XVA70 depth finder that's seen better days.
    I an thinking about replaceing it with an Interphase Matrix.  This unit
    advertises a scaning method to see fore and aft or side to side.  Has
    anyone see this unit in operation and how well did it perform?  I fish
    and dive in the Gulf of Mexico off Florida with a water depth of 70' to
    130'.  I also looked at the Hummingbird Dimension 3D sonar but some
    fishing frinds said 3D picture was poor at depht of 80' or more.
    
    Thanks
    
    Tommy

    Moved by moderator. Also see note 82.
    
================================================================================
Note 1051.0             HELP on fishfinders/video finders             No replies
AIMHI::COSTES                                        22 lines   9-APR-1993 10:20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm about to upgrade to a more powerfull depthfinder/fishfinder but
    would like to rely on someones personal experience rather then a 
    salesmans opinion.
    
    The two units I'm interested in are the Sitex amber video AVS 107
    or the Sitex LCS-200 LCD.
    
    Questions:  How difficult are video finders to read in broad sunlight 
    		in a cockpit without cover?
    
    		How much more detailed is the video vs the LCD screens?
    
		Does anyone have a suggestion as to other units I should
    		look at?  My needs that my current finder does meet are
    		bottom detail at 300 plus feet (including  marking fish
    		laying on or hugging the bottom).
    
    Thanks for helping to whom ever replies...
    
    
    John
    

    
     All video depthfinders wash out to a great degree when in bright
    light. The amber ones are better than black and white which are better
    than color. The LCD displays work BETTER with MORE light on them. I
    have an Eagle Ultra and am very happy with it.
    
      If you want excellent visibility, get an LCD unit. With the higher
    end units, you lose very little resolution and the the ease of viewing
    in bright light more than makes up for it in my opinion.
    
    				Kenny

    You know the LCD finders display virtually diappears if you wear
    Polaroid sunglasses, which, in bright light I do just when I am
    using the fishfinder and need the sunglasses the most.  Its a real
    problem, I see no solution other than not wearing the glasses or
    getting a different kind of finder. 
    
    Jeff

    I had an older LCD fish finder and did not like it, to hard
    to read if you weren't just at the right angle. I just bought and
    installed a Sitex CVS109DF (8 inch color CRT, 600watts RMS) but have
    not had any real experience with it yet, I will be able to
    give details in two weeks. I have been using a furuno radar with
    a 6 inch green crt and have not had any problem veiew that but
    it gets most often used on dim days (ie fog or night) but even
    the few times I have "tested" in on clear days I can see the
    picture.
    
    Get the best unit you can afford. Sitex make execellent fishfinders.
    
    Bruce

    You might try experimenting with rotating either the finder or your
    head 90 degrees.  The display should only "disappear" when the glasses
    and display align a certain way.  Polarized filters for cameras rotate
    so that you can eliminate reflections from water, glass etc.
    
    Perhaps a good eyeglass shop could make a set of polarized glasses
    oriented differently from the ones you have now. 
    
    
    
    Carl
    

    Yup, I have played with rotation and it does help.  BUT I have to 
    have either the fishfinder or my head at 90 deg. angle to the verticle
    which either makes the fishfinder display vertical, or my view of the
    world sideway, which, when operating the boat 'inconvenient'. Ok on
    the change in the glasses.
    
    Jeff

I have an older (5+ years) Ray Jefferson color CRT fishfinder and I had the same
problem while using polarized sunglasses (yellow & blue lenses) Since I changed
to grey lenses the problem has almost gone away.  IF the sun is shining directly
on the screen then not much will help bu rotate the unit.  The Grey lenses donot
distort the color.

I have an old VT100 anti-glare mesh screen cover and I am going to try is this
year and see if it makes a difference.  I'll let you all know how it works out.

Right now I'd be happy to just pull the cover off the boat and start getting it
ready for launch.  I'd even be happy doing the teak -- yuch

Gordon 

    I remember the salesman boasting about the Lorrance X-50 LCG being a vast
    improvement over the X-4 when I was in the market for a depth/fish
    indicator (1989).  He said this unit can find the big fish down deep ^.
    I heard that before.
    
    My question is : How much power/sensitivity does the unit require to
    see those big cod at ~300 ft. deep.
    
    My unit is spec'ed at 3000 watts peak-to-peak (375 RMS) with 90 db
    sensitivity.  The owners manual says that fish show up as arches as
    they pass under the transducer.  I've never experienced the display
    showing arches but have picked up a series of dots which moments later
    HAVE led to hook-ups with the blue fish.  These fish were roughly 20'
    deep I estimate.  I've seen similiar dots indicating movement above the
    ocean bottom at ~80-100 ft.  
    
    A year later I spoke to a Lowrance rep. at a boat show.  He said my 
    unit "will not" display the arches advertised in the owners manual and 
    instructed me to buy their latest top-of-the-line unit...more POWER he 
    said! (?)
    
    Now I'm not one of those guys who needs to see the little outlines of
    the fishes on his LCG recorder but....How much power do you require for
    an adequate representation of a fish that measures a couple feet long
    swimming between 100-200 + feet.??  I've been told that the paper
    recorders can't be beat for marking the fish.  Any comments here.
    
    /MArk

    Mark,
    
    
      Paper machines will give you arches, (I have rolls of them to prove
    it). The lcd on my X-5 would just give clumps of pixels. Your 375
    should show bottom fish in 300 ft if the bottom is hard, in mud
    you might not see them.  You just have to get to know your unit and
    based on ctach know what kind of mark means what kind of fish. Small
    packs of fish at 20 feet are blues, a more fine group solid on the
    center and dots on the outside are bait fish.  A long a set on dots at
    a constant depth over the bottom are dogfish.
    
    Bruce

   I've got an Eagle 6100Z which was discontinued in 1986.  It is not high
power.  I get the arches occasionally (just like the pitchers in the book), but
never in the automatic mode. to get the arches I have to track the bottom 10'
and crank up the sensitivity to where I start getting some noise on the screen,
I back the sensitivity off just enough to clear the screen and then I'll see
the arches, usually in 30 - 50 feet of water, (I haven't tried this in deep
water because I don't fish that deep.)

Al

    
      I believe there is no problem with your unit. Blues swim fast and so
    you only pick them up for a very short time. The reason most fish show
    up as arches is that the signal from a transducer spreads out in a cone
    shape. But when the fish is at either edge of the cone, it is actually
    a little further away them when it is directly under the transducer,
    so.. the fish show up as curves as you pass over them.
    
    				Kenny
    

    moved by moderator
    ------------------
    
              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
================================================================================
Note 1067.0                    DEPTH/FISH FINDERS                     No replies
DNEAST::CHAFF_ART                                    11 lines  24-JUN-1993 10:33
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am looking for information on depth finders/fish finders.   I checked
    the conference keyword list and note titles and I didn't find anything. 
    Can anyone direct me to the correct note, or conference please.
    
    If there is no note  I am looking for info on depth finders for 19 ft
    I/O bowrider.
    
    Moderators please feel free to move this note to the appropriate place.
    
    	Thanks,
    			Art

    I'm not a fisherman however I installed a reasonably priced HUMMINGBIRD
    unit last year and it appears to be reliable. My primary interest in in
    the depthfinder category. It has these "cartoon" displays for fish
    whenver it detects something between the boat and the bottom (I usually
    turn this off in favor of displaying pixels) however it's into its
    second season and still works fine.
    
    My experience is that mounting of the pickup is the most critical part
    regardless of which product you go with.

    Can anyone give me info. and prices in USA for the following
    fishfinders please??
    Hummingbird 100
    Hummingbird wide 100
    Hummingbirdwide eye
    Lowrance bluewater 200
    Lowrance x-25a
    lowrance x-55a
    The prices of these in Europe is very high.
    regards
    willie shaw
    

    You can call Bass Pro Shops for prices, plus a full catalog, prices are
    hard to beat.
    
    Outside Continental US: 1-417-863-2499
    (inside 1-800-basspro)

    I would appreciate any info re. effectiveness on Hummingbird or
    Lowrance fishfinders it the under 250dollar category
    regards
    willie shaw
    

    I just bought an Eagle Magna III, for $149.  Eagle is made by
    Lowrance.  Used it for the first time this weekend and I'm pretty
    impressed by it.

    I'm using a shoot-thru-the-hull transducer, which is supposed to be
    less sensitive than a transom mount.  But I was impressed with the
    unit.  

    No problem with screen glare either.  

    First fishfinder I've ever used, so I don't have a reference point.

    George

    I have an EAGLE ULTRA II PLUS.. $ 250.  A VERY impressive unit.
    EXCELLENT bottom detail, auto ranging, depth alarms, side scan, etc.
    It even plays music which I really don't need, but, oh well.
    
    Anyway... I would recommend it to anyone interested in 'serious' bottom
    scanning and fish finding.
    
    Jeff

    Thank you all for yhe notes, I have ordered an Eagle Magna 111plus.
    regards
    willie shaw
    

    
    
     Anyone out there got the address for Hummingbird? The boat we got came
     witha Hummingbird TCR101 but no instuctions/user guide. I want to see
     if I can something from them.
    
                                          Regards,
                                           Steve Wild
       

I'll try to remember to bring it in.  We've got a Humminbird in our 
boat and like it plenty.

-r

Humminbird's Customer Support Hotline is 800-633-1468.

The address:

	Techsonic Industries, Inc.
	3 Humminbird Lane
	Eufaula, AL  36027-3335

    I was looking at a couple of boating books (BOAT USA and OVERTONS) and
    they have those fishfinders/depthfinders that can scan in front of you
    up to 1200' and directly below and some even behind all at the same
    time.  They are priced around $750.00.  Does anybody have any
    experience with these units?  Are they worth the money? Where can you 
    get the best price on these units?  Some of the brands are Sea Scout,
    Probe, Echo, Twin Scope ect.  I have a Humminbirde Wide One Hundred and
    its ok but I'd really like to know whats ahead.  I also placed my
    transducer inside the hull and shoot threw.  I loose my signal alot and 
    I am not really happy with it.  I am thinking of doing a transum mount
    or drill a hole in the hull for bottom mount.  Any info is
    appreciated...
    
    Regards,
    
    Dom

re .68:

There was a longish article in the March/April 1997 issue of Ocean 
Navigator (might still be on the newstands) about forward looking sonar.
The author was looking at the units for navigation (eg, not bumping in 
the rocks ahead), not fishfinding. The conclusion was that the look-ahead 
distance is quite limited (as little as a boat length or two in shallow 
water) and that the display requires considerable interpretation and 
attention to be useful. My conclusion is that my limited boating dollars 
are far better spent on any of a large number other things, such as radar.

    I'd think that there are so many problems with placing a forward
    looking transducer on a typical planing-hull recreation boat as to
    render the concept unworkable. 
    
    eg: Where would you spot it such that it doesn't cause tons of drag,
    stays in the water when you're on plane, doesn't hang up on the
    trailer, doesn't get scraped off on the beach, etc, etc?
    
    Fish-finding at slow speed should be easier to solve - they make a
    transducer that can be fitted to a trolling motor shaft. Stick one on
    your bow-mounted unit and you're all set for low-speed forward
    scanning...