Conference vicki::boats

    RE .0
    
                Shep Brown's Boat Basin in Merideth N.H.
    
                       Jeff

    Thompson's Marine in Bridgewater, MA

    Oster River Boatyard,
    W. Chatam, Mass.  617-945-0736
    
    Another dealer with a pretty good reputation is
    Johnson's, N. Kingston, Rhode Island.   I know you asked for
    Mass and NH;  this dealer is about 15 minutes south of 
    Providence.  401-294-3700

    I have bought 2 Wellcrafts in 2 years, the first from Thompsons
    and the second from Shep Browns.  I was much happier dealing with
    Browns even though it is a much longer ride for me to N.H.  Any
    minor adjustments that were needed were done promptly and without
    any questions.
    
    The boat I bought at Browns is the 23' NOVA XL that I already have
    85 hrs on since May.  Wellcraft is one of the premium boat builders.

    I'm looking at purchasing either a Wellcraft or a Formula (in the
    29' to 32' range) I realize that this is a general question but
    any input regarding pro/cons of either would br appreciated.  Being
    in the mid-west it's also difficult to find a consistant price tag
    i.e. lack oDealer competition to influence pricing. What should
    I watch out for.
    
    Thanks,
    
    BJ

    
    RE: BJ
    
    	I know you were looking for input, but I'll put in a question
    for you. Are the Wellcraft and Formula in the same price range
    when you get up to the 29'-32' range?
    
    	Rick

    Rick,
    
    On the whole, I'm finding that the Wellcraft run around 5-8K higher
    than the Formula depending on options...I think I see what your
    driving at but is it really true you get what you pay for or am
    I paying for the 'name'?
    
    BJ

    BJ
    
    Both Formula and Wellcraft are big name boats and require mucho
    bucks $$$$ in the size range your talking about (29'-32'). Just
    as an example - I priced out a Formula F-223 LS a few weeks ago
    in New Hampshire. Now this is a 22' 3" boat price, $43,700 base
    price and with options $45,000 !!!!...and that's for a 22' 3" boat..
    Formula as many of us know, builds one of the best boats in the
    industry, with one of the greatest resale values...but $45K..
    
    Now can you imagine a 29-32' Formula, try 90-130K on for size..
    Wellcraft is big bucks too (I have their catolog right in front
    of me now) but few boats run at the price Formulas run at foot for
    foot..
    
    I would suggest getting a hold of one of the Boating magazines,
    and turning to the back, and calling some of the dealer all over
    the US to get a good idea as to how your prices in the Mid-West
    compare to other locations.
    
    The bottom line is that both these boats are well built, but you
    have to do a little research first... BTW - Which model Formula
    or Wellcraft are you looking at?
    
    							-mike-

    Rick,
    
    In the Formula line, F-29 PC and w/ twin Mercs runs around 98K
    and in the Wellcraft I've lokked at several models in the 22 -44'
    range and depending on drives and other 'Bells and whistles' They
    start at 33K up to 160K. I was interested in the Portofino but
    it's a tad bit larger than my wallet at 149K. they are sendind me
    the 'latest' in the 28'-32' range. It is feasable to get into a
    Wellcraft 32' in the 90's if you sacrafice motor and gadgets....
    that leads me back to my original question, Am I paying for a 'Name'
    or is one truly better than the other... I'm getting mixed feelings
    from your responses. I tend to slant torwards the Wellcraft.
    
    Again, Thanks,
    
    BJ

    One more thing, I have spoke with Wellcraft and there is one dealer
    here locally that marks up list 30% and then places it on sale for
    20% off... Hence I choose to deal with the manufacter directly if
    possible.
    
    BJ
    
    

    Sorry Mike I didn't catch your name until it was to late I guess
    my replies and thanks go to both of you....
    
    BJ
    

    BJ,
    
    If your looking at the F-29 PC Formula then you might want to take a
    look at the new 28' Welcraft Monoco. I believe it runs around $60-70K
    or so. I've read about it in Boating Magazine and been aboard one in
    the Boston boat show. Welcraft really does use the available space well
    on the Monoco.
    
    I'm more into performance boats, but the Welcraft Monoco is a real
    interesting new boat - one worth checking out...
    
    								-mike-

    Need help...

    	While waxing my Wellcraft this weekend, I decided to take off the
    tie-down handles on the Bow..WRONG!  Come to find out, there are nuts
    and washers under the fiberglass! Now the problem, there is NO way to
    get them back on...no entry from the inside or from the top! 

    	The padding on the inside of the boat does not come out/up for
    entry.

    	When did they put them on? Before sealing the top of the bow?

    	Any suggestions?

    One more...anyone have the Ph number to the Wellcraft H/Q for a manual?

    Thanks in advance..a very confused boater.

    B.A.
          

    Hi B.A.,
    First, nothing is really "inaccessible", it's just a matter of
    how much you're willing to cut/damage/destroy to get there!  I
    assume the padding you say is blocking access is the foam flotation 
    material which is sprayed under the gunnels.  This can be removed,
    and new foam sprayed in its place afterward if you're really 
    ambitious.  
    
    An easy way out would be to use either the plastic inserts or toggle
    bolts which are used to mount heavy objects on sheetrock walls.
    Keep in mind that if the factory did it right there should be backing
    plates under the cleats, or plywood glassed into that area.  If you
    use toggle bolts you'll still get the benefit of the backing plates,
    but if you use the plastic inserts the cleats won't be as strong as
    they once were.  To use either one you'll need to enlarge the original
    holes in the hull.
    
    Rick

    The customer service Number for Wellcraft Customer Services is
    
    			1-800-755-1099
    
    

    One of the recent catalogs I received showed hardware designed
    specifically for what you need to do.  The hardware was just like
    toggle bolts meant for house drywall but was heavier duty and
    designed for marine applications where thru bolting is needed
    but access is not available.  The application they showed as an
    example was mounting something to the floor of a boat.  Now if I
    can only remember what catalog these were in.  I'll check tomorrow
    when I'm back in Salem.
    Wayne

    Re: Marine Toggle bolts:
       I belive they were in the E&B/Bliss Marine Catalog-They can be used
    for mounting the bases of pedestal seats to the floor.
    
    DW

    	Thanks to all the replied!  Wow! that was fast!  I think I'm going
    with the "Toggle Bolts" to fix my problem. That seems to be the
    "easy" way out. :*)

    	Thanks for the number also!  I've got my manual on the way!

    Thanks again!

    B.A._who_feels_better_about_boating_with_help_from_the_notes_file!

    Yeah, but now everytime you hit a bump or make a sharp turn you're
    going to hear the hardware that fell off go click, clunk, clank...
    
    :-)
    

    .19�    Yeah, but now everytime you hit a bump or make a sharp turn you're
    .19�    going to hear the hardware that fell off go click, clunk, clank...
    
    	You know, I thought about that! I wonder if it will end up near the
    back of the boat?
    
    	4 washers and 4 nuts...hopefully they won't make too much noise!
    :*)
    
    B.A.

    
    	What gives with the Wellcraft people? I called 3 weeks ago and
    orderd a manual for my boat..no manual! I've called them twice since
    then and still no manual....I called them again today!  Get the same
    B/S...it's on the way!
    
    B.A.
    

    In case you havn't heard, Wellcraft is going under.
    
    Maybe at the moment, they have other concerns...
    
    JIm.

    
    RE: .21
    
    See note 839 for info on Wellcraft "going down the tubes".
    
    
    

    
    	I finally got my manual..not excatly what I wanted but it will
    help.
    
    B.A.
    

        Does it teach you how to kneeboard?  HA!!!!.....I kill me! 
    Seriously, B.A., you did great for a first time kneesurfer!!
    
                                                          Capt. Scott

    .25�        Does it teach you how to kneeboard?  HA!!!!.....I kill me! 
    
    	As a matter of fack(tm) it did..it said never try it behind a
    Bayliner with a drunk crew! :*)
    
    B.A._who_had_his_first_and_last_face_plant

    RE: .26
    
    		I resemble that remark! I wasn't drunk; I just took too
    many ACTIFED, uh, yea.....that's it!
    
    		-Hoopster-

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                               -<    Hit it!    >-
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Note 880.0                  advice on buying a scarab                 No replies
POCUS::CULLEN                                        13 lines  17-JUL-1991 14:32
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    I am looking at a 1979 30' Wellcraft Scarab with twin Merc 330's.
    
    Both enginge blocks and internals were replace in '86.  Each engine has
    about 100 hours since the rebuild.
    
    Does anyone have any advice, positive or negative experiences, or
    general info that would be helpful in evaluating this package.
    
    The seller is asking $10,000.
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Tom C.

    I would suggest you have a full engine survey by a marine mechanic. It
    usually runs about $150. for two engines at the same time.
    
    I would also have a hull survey. 
    
    Do the engine survey first in the water so he can run them.
    

    For additional info in this conference try typing:
    DIR/TIT=USED   and
    DIR/TIT=SURVEY
    
    In particular, check note 429 on "how to test and sea trial a used
    boat".
    
    A 30' Scarab with twin 330's for only $10K?  I would expect to find
    *LOTS* wrong!  Or at least traces of drugs in hidden compartments...
    
    Any problems with the drives or motors, figure on repair costs of
    *several thousand* dollars per unit.  Any repairs will take twice
    as long and cost at least twice as much as you think...
    
    Rick

    This type of boat is also likely to have been driven very hard
    during its previous life.
    

    I've been looking to move up from my current 20' Sunbird to something
    in the 23-25' range which has the following features:
    
    - 50% fish / 50% cruise (day trip plus very occasional overnight)
    - fiberglass cockpit liner (also for cabin would be nice).
    - No aft cabin, but enclosed head and very miminal galley would be nice
    - rear bench seat
    - does not have to be a walkaround, particularly if it kills the cabin
      space too much.
    
    There are actually very few boats that meet the above criteria.  
    Fishing types typically have little cockpit seating, and/or have
    cockpit+walkaround so big that cabin is no more than a tiny cuddy.
    Cruiser type boats have too much carpet and too much cabin
    (particularly if they have aft cabins), although they typically do
    provide (cramped) seating for 5,6 or more outside.
    
    I've found one boat that seems to work for all the above - it's a
    Wellcraft 250 Sportsman (post-1985, prior to that they had no head and
    useless quarter berths).   I've looked at several in the 1986-1989
    timeframe.  Prices run from $17-22K in that range which is about my
    budget.
    
    However, contrary to replies earlier in this topic, my inspection of
    those boats would tend to indicate strictly average construction
    quality.  The hull glasswork and stringer systems appear to be 
    reasonable (but nowhere near Grady/Whaler standards), and I would say
    the finishing materials are strictly middle-of-the-road (if not worse,
    the stick-on black anti glare material on top of the dashboard is
    pretty mickey mouse, inside I usually see evidence of window leaks).
    
    The used prices I cited above would tend to bear out my conclusion that
    the boat is of ordinary quality and depreciates pretty fast. (Powerboat
    reports agreed with this conclusion, although they did praise Wellcraft
    for excellent customer service).
    
    So why is Wellcraft "one of the top builders"?  (See .1).  Or does this
    apply only to their go-fasts?
    
    Also any other opinions on the above boat, and any other equivalent
    ones I should be considering in that price range?
    
    

    I believe the Sportsman series was a "Value line" boat. This line has
    since been discontinued. I think you'll find their Coastals to be a
    much better built boat. More in line with what you'd expect from
    Wellcraft.
    
    Al

    re - last reply 
    
    As a former Sportsman's owner, I just have to jump in here.
    The Sportsman was not a "value" offering, and especially not
    in relation to the Coastal model.  The hulls were basically
    ( maybe exactly ) the same.   The Coastal was a much more open
    style, whereas the Sportsman gave more cabin/galley area.
    
    I was never aware of any differences in quality of construction.
    Both are great boats, just a little different.  Structurally, I never
    had any problems.  I did notice a few very small "stress" cracks
    in the fiberglas in the walkaround area.  They were there when I
    bought the boat and never got worse.  I see similar hairline cracks
    on much more expensive boats.  
    
    I had a 1983 Sportsman, and my only complaint was that it tended
    to be a little "light" in the bow, esp in the wind.  I occasionally
    had trouble docking on windy days.  And, some of that was certainly
    a "skills" issue on my part !  
    

    Re. Last reply.
    
    Sorry If I offended you. Using the term "value" was a bad move. I guess
    to many people the term "Value line" means cheap, inferior quality. I
    believe everything Wellcraft makes is at least solid upper middle
    market or better. But they do employ different construction methods on 
    different models just as many of the other higher end manufacturers do.
    FWIW. I too own a Wellcraft and when it comes time to move up it is
    highly likely that I will purchase another.
    
    Al

    
    Anyone know much about the Wellcraft Eagle??
    
    I saw one really cheap (a relative term for a 42' :), but it seems
    too good to be true. Any opinions or info on these???
    
    Thanks,
    Garrison.