Conference vicki::boats

    
    My 1988 200 Johnson  did the same thing. The dealer found a bad
    Statter,(charge coil). BTW it took 5 weeks to get a coil from Johnson.
    Hope this helps.
    
                  Tommy.

    	Water in the gear case lube is usually an expensive problem,
    as in lower unit replace/rebuild time. This is supposed to be a
    sealed unit meaning one of the seals is leaking if your getting
    water in there. One of the possible causes for this is fishing line 
    around the prop shaft, especially on older units where the rear seal 
    wasn't well protected from this sort of thing.
    
    	It doesn't sound as if it's related to the RPM's going down
    but you never know. Does it make any grinding/crunching sounds ???
    Usually you'll just strip out the crown gear and/or forward and
    reverse because the prop shaft bearings/bushings lose lubrication and 
    start spinning on the shaft and digging into it which, for brievities
    sake, screws up the lower unit royally. Not good. Also a problem
    with older units is trying to dismantle them, especially if they've
    been run in salt water.
    
    	Good luck..............RAYJ

    	Do you realy have water(100%  H2O) or oil and water? The gear case
    can run close to forever with a small amount of water in the oil.
    Its possible for the gear case to seize and stall the motor. Does   
    the engine start again right away or do you have to wait a while
    Is your hot horn working? Sounds more like overheating of either
    the whole engine or just a component of the ignition system. Is
    there any blistered paint on the top of the powerhead? Just some
    things you can check before bringing it .
    
    	Bill
       
    

    Well the poor performance sounds so familiar.  I used to have a 40
    Evenrude of about the same age and it went through a short spell of
    this.  Since I new next to nothing about OB at the time I took it in
    for a checkup. 
    
    First thing the mechanic did was to check the petrol pump and replace
    the rubber diaghram.  No joy
    
    Second he replaced the Primer bulb. Well needles to say it fixed
    the problem.  He charged me �30 (50$) - Was I Lucky?
    
    However the same thing happened to my MERc the other day and all
    I did was to change the primere bulb.  It is now fixed.  However
    the merc would not idle properly either.
    
    Best of luck and hope your bills are low.
    
    Roger Reading

        I hope by now you've checked the oil in your lower unit. It's
        very easy, but in this case you should definitely drain a little
        bit into a clean glass jar. 
        
        Just loosen and remove the flat-blade screw at the bottom of your
        lower unit, on the starboard side. You might have to loosen the
        top air vent screw also.
        
        DON'T REMOVE THE PHILLIPS HEAD SCREW. That one is the pivot point
        for your shifter fork. 
        
        If there's any water in the oil it will be at the bottom of the
        jar. Needless to say, there should not be any water at all. When
        you refill, you refill from the bottom up.
        
        But I don't think that's your problem. I'd bet you can run for
        months with water in there and never know, until the day it dies
        completely. Which it will.
        
        I'm interested in your problem, because I have the exact same
        situation right now with my '84 235 Johnson. Runs fine for 15
        minutes, then the revs drop off to 4000. Max speed will be 4000
        for ten minutes or so, then it drops off to about 2600 and that's
        the absolute max it will do. Funny thing is, it sounds fine. Just
        won't go fast. It runs 100% okay in the test tank with a test
        wheel on.
        
        I've been waiting six weeks now for a VRO2 pump, and this is a
        guess.

  I'll share some experience with you.
    
    I'm a happy ourboarder,  twin Johnson 200's. I also had a rev problem,
    but only on the first launch day. Diagnosed as a bad powerpack.
    A week later and a new part - AOKAY. My revs limited out about 3000.
    
    Don't known for sure if its the same problem as yours or not...
    
    I also had a similar problem later that summer, when shifting to
    reverse and back. The motor would die. After some trying times,
    diagnosis is a tywrap used for "cleanliness in the reverse linkage
    area was binding on the device used to kill the power pack for half
    the motor while it shifts into reverse. Fixed the tywrap - fixed
    the problem.  Seems like the shifting of gears gives them fits,
    must cheapy stuff, soooo they cut out half the motor just as the
    reverse shift lever shifts gears into rev. This doesn't sound like
    your problem, just FYI...
    
    I'd bet on the infamous "electronic ignition" - see other notes.
    A common failure mode as explained by a rep is "they break down
    under load" hence the failures at a midrange RPM..
    
    Good luck, and please let us know what you get done to finally fix
    this problem.
    
    THanks,
    
    Mike "Old Soul"
    

I have an old Chrysler 105hp outboard that I have been having problems 
with.  I went and put new spark plugs & points in it.  I haven't been
able to get wires for it yet. After I put it back together it fired
up the first time I hit the key.  Before that it usually took 15 minutes
to get it started.  After it warmed up it would usually restart OK.
Since it seemed to be running OK I took it to Fort Pond.  It started
right up.  I took 2 passes around the pond and it died and wouldn't
restart.  I haven't figured out why it quit.  The carburators get plenty 
of gas but it doesn't seem to get to the spark plugs.  I didn't have a
timing tool so maybe the timing could be off, but if that were true why
would it start up so easily?  I've been thinking about getting a
carburator kit and a fuel pump kit for it.  The motor is pretty old and
it may not be worth investing alot of money in repairs.  To top it off,
I just got back off of vacation and someone had stoled my propellor.

I'd like to buy another motor but I can't afford 4 to 6K for an engine.
Does anyone have any ideas or know of anyone who will look at an old
Chrysler engine?  I called Charles Whitney which is where the engine
came from and he hung on me refusing to even look at the engine.  I went
to Perlay's Marina and he said that the engine was to old for him to
consider working on, but he was at least nice about it.  At least he
sold me the Force manual and carries parts for Force engines.  Going to
Rowley is a two hour trip one way for me and isn't that convient.  
However, I have been thinking about buying an engine there if I can find
one I can afford next year.  Force engines don't seem to be too popular
around here.  Maybe I should think about getting a different make?

								Rob

    re : 108.0
    
     Having worked on several outboards(mostly Chryslersw) with the
    exact problem, most recently a 87 115 HP- essentially the same engine
    as yours- it turned out to be inadeqaute fuel due to air getting
    in the line between the fuel tank and inlet to the fuel pump. 
    try this- when the engine starts to slow down, pump the primer bulb
    as quick and as hard as you can- if the engine picks up- you've
    got a small leak- replace the fittings, and fuel line if necessry.
    
    
     If you cant pump it up- you may have some blockage in the pick-up
    line in the tank- blow out the lines if you've got a built- in tank
    or pull the tank fitting out and c  heck it if you've got portable
    tanks.
    
    What happens is that if you have a small leak, the inlet line starts
    suckin air and the line caoacity is reduced- the fuel level starts
    to drop in the carburetor bowls, the engine slows down until fuel
    demand of the engine=capacity of the line- this gives you too lean
    a mixture which can overheat your pistons and bye-bye engine.
    
    a restriction does essentially the same thing.
    
    the other possibilities are that the engine is overheating because
    of restricted water passage or failing water pump, ignition problems(
    if the engine starts missing and then slows down, this is probably
    the culprit, or as mentioned in the other notes, lower unit starting
    to sisze up rom lack of lubrication.
    
    If it runs smooth, but loses power, it's probably not getting enough
    fuel. when it starts to slow down, drop the rpm down to abou 1500-2000
    for 1-2 min and then nail it wide open- if the rpm goes up to where
    it should and then drops off again after a couple of minutes- look
    for either airt in the fuel or a ful line restriction.
    
    If ittakes a whileto slow down and you think it's overheating- youre
    temp switch and light should give an indication- make sure the circiut
    is working by turning on the ignition and grounding out the terminal
    on the over temperature switch on the cylinder head- if the light
    doesn't come on check the bulb/cwiring/and socket- if it does come
    on ,and if the switch is o.k- look for ignition or lower unit problems.
    
    
    
    My bet is that it's not getting enough fuel for sustained high rpm
    operation
    
    
    Good luck
    
    
    

Back to my '84 235 Johnson. Finally got a VRO2 pump. It took some
detective work to find out why it was taking so long. It seems that OMC
actually shipped my pump within days of receiving the order, but they
shipped it to the dealer in Connecticut where I bought the engine! He,
being a bit of a turkey, received a prepaid pump, thank you, and put it
on his shelf.

Anyway, while the pump was off the mechanic found that the flame arrestor
between the crankcase and the pump diaphragm was burned away (crankcase
pressure pulses are fed to the pump, where the diaphragm translates
pulses to pump motions). And, we replaced the water pump impellor at the
same time, since it had four years on it and overheating could cause the
loss of power.

Launched the boat, ran down the lake at 5500 rpm. Ran back up, and revs
dropped off to 4500. But every few seconds the revs would jump up to
normal, like a bad plug or a bad coil (there's six of each, of course).
Back on the trailer. Pulled the plugs. The top one on the starboard bank
was completely fouled. I also found that the connector bringing timing
pulses INTO the starboard side electronic ignition was loose; the
retaining clip was missing. So, I completely pulled all the connectors,
looked at them for corrosion, and reseated all connectors. 

Then I replaced all six spark plugs with a brand new type that Champion
just brought out. OMC originally recommended the UL77V for my engine, now
this one is being spoken of as the preferred plug: QL16V. Very expensive,
at $5.80 each from Robbins Auto Parts in Manchester, NH. Quite different
from the UL77V. It's still a surface gap plug, but the insulator is not a
flat disk filling the hollowed-out ground portion of the plug nose, but
rather a sort of nose cone with an air space around it. It also extends
about 3/8" deeper into the combustion chamber than the UL77V.

Back to the water; Wentworth Lake in NH this time.  5500 rpm up and down
for 3/4 of an hour. Down to trolling speed, chugged around, back up, shut
it off, cooled it off, no matter what I did I couldn't make it break
down. Ran for better than two hours. She's doing 5500 rpm with a dinged
prop (from Pawtuckaway last week) and a less-than-slick bottom, and
showing 37.5 knots on the LORAN with 120 gallons of gas aboard. 

I think it's fixed.

Art

    Sounds like Norman Marine to me.?
    
    Rick Egan

    Moved by moderator...
    
================================================================================
Note 936.0              EVINRUDE 115 AND DECK BOAT SPEED              No replies
SNOWY::HEDRICK "Amarillo by morning"                 20 lines  10-DEC-1991 12:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hello again boat experts!!!  I am returning with a need of help again. 
    I have had good responses to my other problems with my boat and will try
    again.  I took my boat in to have them figure out why I wasn't TOPPING
    OUT.  The engine sounds fine, the throttle goes all the way.  The prop
    is OK.  The mechanics said it had good compression.  The boat is a 18
    foot deck boat with an Evinrude 115 motor.  It used to run around 35
    MPH.  I am only guessing on this MPH since the speedomoter is
    non-existant. It now, again my guess, only runs about 25 MPH or so.  I
    used to be able to pull an inner-tube easily with my kids on it.  Now,
    I can't ever TOP out.
    
    The lake I keep the boat stored in has a lot of algae.  The mechanics
    bottom-line word is, "Your boat motor runs fine, I think the algae growth
    on the hull is your problem".  Yes I will clean this off, but I can't
    see this as being my problem.  The mechanic says he has seen other
    boats with the same problem, and lose as much as 10 MPH.  Guess what,
    this is how much I am seeming to be losing.  Weather permitting I will
    clean this off and try again.
    
    Any thoughts, if I need to supply more information just tell me.

    I've heard of losing a lot more than 10 mph due to bottom growth.  Fix
    this problem first (or use bottom paint so it doesn't happen in the
    first place).
    
    
    

Since you've had a (hopefully competent) mechanic check the motor, you
should focus on getting rid of that growth on the hull.  If it needs to 
be done anyway, why not do it first rather than chase a potentially non-
existent engine problem?  As Jim said, this can EASILY cause a major
increase in drag and reduction in speed.  Even more so on a deck boat 
which generally has lots of hull surface area.

If this doesn't cure the problem, you should then go back to the motor.
It's too bad you don't have a tach and speedo to get some hard data,
both before and after.  You said the compression's already been checked. 
You should also check the timing, the fuel pump, fuel lines and tanks.  
It could be something as simple as stuck or clogged vent - loosen the 
gas cap and see if the problem goes away.  Also, be sure the engine is 
trimmed properly, have you changed the engine position or angle recently?  
Have you swapped props recently?  Check to be sure the prop you installed 
is still on there.  This is a long shot, but maybe someone liked your 
prop specs better and did a little midnight swap?  I would think a deck 
boat shouldn't have more than a 15" pitch prop.

Rick

    	
    my idea is located near the prop area too ...
    
    	once upon a time I launched a rod through my block
    	and replaced the outboard with one 5hp larger (big 
    	40 hp !!!!)  It was used, bought/installed by a boat 
    	place ... the motor ran fine.  They were happy with the installation.
    	They were happy with the way it ran in the water.  I wasn't,
    	I said the new engine didn't push the boat as fast as the 
    	smaller one ... the boat guy said I couldn't expect more speed from 
    	the motor.  I quantified it as : I didn't feel as much wind force
    	in my face full throttle ... the dealer wasn't happy - I was 12-13 
    	at the time but it was the perfect boat .... my boat ... and dads 
    	money ;-)  - but he looked the engine over and guess what ... there 
    	was fishing line wrapped around the prop hub.  Took that off and 
    	took another ride ... that windy feeling was back.  He was 
    	happy once again ... though I think he was muttering beneath
    	his breath.   So check for wrapped line ... if you find
    	some ... I now know that fishing line can cut the seals
    	(not the sea mammal !!!)  but forget if it can be verified 
    	w/o a pressure check (???? )
    
    		free info ... and well worth it 
    
    					- Ed
    
    	clean the hull ??? don't you people know a rough surface
    	makes a boat go faster ? (ok, maybe not THAT rough).

    re:108.15
       I'm going to bite on the last statement in the prior note. 
    I'm very interested in this "rough surface" theory where a boat
    would be faster if the bottom was slightly rough.  I don't remember
    anything from my engineering fluid dynamics courses that would imply
    that a slightly rough surface would produce less drag on a wetted
    surface when the direction of flow was parallel to the surface.  
    There may be some benefit on a displacement type hull, but a planing
    hull, once on plane, should present the least resistance when smooth.
    Can you explain what you meant?  
    Thanks, Wayne

    re .16
    
    	Believe it or not a rough surface (in the right place) can decrease the
    suction effect produced by a smooth wetted surface. I believe this idea
    was used during the America's Cup Race. Conners crew applied a Hi-Tech
    surface covering called "micro ballons" (from 3M Corp) to the hull of his 
    boat to reduce this smooth surface suction effect. 
    
    	Where's Alan Berens when you need him? Alan, could you help me out
    on this one... 
    
    								-mike-

    	They applied a finely grooved plastic, it acted as a turbulence
    generator.  The hope was to break up the surface friction while not
    destroying laminar boundary layer flow.  The gain if anything would
    have been in hundredths of a second a mile.  Stars and Strips 86 was
    much faster up wind than the Australian boat.  Fast up wind was critical
    for that regatta.  The amusing thing is that they applied many of the
    panels with the wrong orientation.  The real benefit was to unnerve the
    other boat.


    Forrest

    
    I can believe this. There's a sea plane in the harbor, his
    biggest problem is the breaking the suction generated by the
    pontoons..
    
    JIm

>>>    I can believe this. There's a sea plane in the harbor, his
>>>    biggest problem is the breaking the suction generated by the
>>>    pontoons..
    
If you see a float plane preparing to take off from a glass-smooth lake, 
often the pilot will circle a few times to disturb the surface, thus 
breaking the suction and allowing an easier take-off.  Nothing like a 
little entrapped air to cut the resistance; if your hull shape doesn't 
create it, then it's good for the water to do so (within obvious limits.)

J.