Conference vicki::boats

    
>>    	He just purchased an old (10+ years) MFG Tri-Hull, and would
>>  like to pick-up a new outboard motor for it. Any suggestions..?
>>  The engine would be in the 50-70 HP range. What's the price on 
>>  Yamaha's is this HP range..?
    

Mike,
There is a law of "diminishing returns" when putting a new motor on an
old boat. Unfortunately putting a $4000 motor on a $3000 boat does not
make it a $7000 boat. A brand new rig can be had for about the same
price. What I would suggest is selecting a motor that's maybe a little
bigger than what the MFG really needs. Then when your friend wants a
larger boat he can take this motor and put it on the new boat. Otherwise
if he were to sell the MFG with the new motor on it in let's say two
years, he'd probably lose his shirt on the deal.

For 4 years I owned a 16' Renken tri-hull with a Johnson 70hp. Top speed
was about 34 mph, but pulling a skier up was a bit slow if there were 3
or more people in the boat. I always wanted just a little more power (who
doesn't?). A 70 should do well in your friend's boat, although if he plans
to do much skiing an 85 or 90 would be just about right. I don't think
he'll be happy with the 50.

Rick W.

    An older boats H.P. rating must be considered. Old outboards were
    rated at the Crank shaft, New O.B.'s are rated at the prop. Take
    about 15% less Hp than what the boat was originally rated for .
    Then evaluate the condition - are there any stress cracks? in the
    transom? 
    You will also find that by going with a smaller H.P. motor you will
    get a better resale and a much quicker sale when the time comes.
    
    Also I've found that I never ran my old boat at 45 kts, even though
    it could do it, I would have been better off saving the cash and
    buying a smaller ob. My new boat does 18 kts and saves a LOT of fuel.
    I just have to plan my trips with more time, But thats why I go
    boating, To relax and get away from the rush. 
    
                                           Walt
    

For what it's worth, when I bought my boat (just about this time of year a
couple years back) , I got a 75 HP Mariner that was 'last year's model' for a
slightly lower price.  You might inquire as to the availability of an '88
model engine (I suspect the '89s are out now or will be soon).

					Al

    
    	There is an ad in Off-shore this month for  "Clearance priced"
    Suzuki O/Bs, I'll try to remember to post the dealer and phone number,
    I know it is in N.H. (Translation: no sales tax:-^))
    
    	R
    

    How about a used, rebuilt ob?  I got a used boat and wasn't about
    to pay for a new motor so I got a used motor with new piston, rings
    (.020 over) crank, reed block, ignition, new paint inside and out
    for $1500 (Evinrude 70hp 1978).  Basicly the same motor you can
    buy new.  It took a lot of looking to find it.  The next best thing
    I found was a 1986 70hp Evinrude with a new factory powerhead at
    the dealer for $2600. 
    
    Nelson
    

    Edgemere Power equipment (755-7267) sells NISSAN ( identical to
    Tohatsu, kind of like  Johnson/Evenrude) at $50-$100 over his cost.
    He is located on Rt. 20 in Worcester.  He does not stock much, but
    can get it in a few days.  He is also very reasonable to do business
    with.  In checking out references before I bought mine, everyone
    who owned a NISSAN/Tohatsu was extremely pleased with it.  In fact
    one dealer who sells both OMC and Tohatsu said that his commercial
    boat rental customers had switched over to Tohatsu because they won
    hands down in durability over OMCs.  
    
    Marty

    re .6	It is my prediction that Japanese manufacturers will
    swamp OMC/Mercury in the next 5 - 10 years.  They will do this by
    strengthening the basic design of O/Bs and I/Os, possibly Inboards
    as well.  This will result in higher standards of reliability for
    everyone as (if ?) the US industry tries to keep up.  Then they'll move
    on to more innovative design.  I also predict "dumping"  claims by the
    US manufacturers as the dollar continues to slide against the Yen,
    possibly we'll see import restrictions too.  Yamaha and Suzuki are
    already here, in a BIG WAY, ten years ago I thought Honda was going
    to get serious when they brought in their 4 stroke O/Bs, I still
    don't understand why they didn't push the market harder.

    	I hate seeing this happen, we've seen it in too many industries
    already, but to most US manufacturers being  "competitive"  seems
    to just mean being no worse than the next guy and a dollar cheaper.

    	Nissan & Tohatsu ?  Yes, probably.  If the rental fleets are
    adopting them they are close to  "renter proof".
    
    	Reg
    

    Anyone know who makes Mariner's large outboard motors, in particular
    the 175 hp ? I've always assumed that a Mariner was a Mercury painted
    grey.
    
    ~jeff

<    Anyone know who makes Mariner's large outboard motors, in particular
<    the 175 hp ? I've always assumed that a Mariner was a Mercury painted
<    grey.

   I have a 75hp Mariner.  I was told by one dealer that as the engines come
down the line some go to the black paint booth and the rest go to the grey
paint booth...  My Mariner Shop manual says Mercury all over it...


Al

    
    
    i was told that mercury is assembled in america and 
    
    mariner is assembled somewhere else,but im not sure how true 
    
    this is.
    
    the other reg
    
    

    Answered my own question a little later. I was talking to a mechanic 
    who said that a Mariner was in fact a Mercury painted grey. He's torn
    them apart, and been to their repair schools, and seen the manuals.
    They are the same.
    
    The 175 hp (Ski) has a gear reduction in the lower unit so it has super
    low end pulling power but tops out around only 50 mph on your average
    hull. Don't know if the 175 Merc has the same lower end gear reduction.
    
    Thanx, 
    
    ~jeff

    .... old outboard hp rated at crankshaft, new at prop.
    
    Whats an 'old' outboard?  That is, what year did they change over
    to HP at prop?
    
    Jeff

re: Note 86.12
>>SALEM::GILMAN 
>>     .... old outboard hp rated at crankshaft, new at prop.
>>
>>  Whats an 'old' outboard?  That is, what year did they change over
>>  to HP at prop?
    
I was trying to figure out what you were talking about Jeff, til I realized
you were responding to a 5 year old reply.  Bored at lunch?   8^)

Anyway, I'm not sure that Walt's statement about old outboards is accurate.
Most of them have always been rated at prop shaft hp, and some were in fact
even grossly under-rated, particularly Mercurys of the 1950's and 60's. Stock
10hp Merc's of the 1950's were known to blow off OMC 18's and 25's on light-
weight boats.  Put the two motors on a heavier boat however, and the tables 
were turned.  The slower turning OMC motors with more cubic inches and torque, 
would easily out pull a Merc.  A single 35hp OMC would plane an 18' outboard 
cabin cruiser, pushing it into the high-teens or low 20's.

Even today, a good running 1950's 35hp motor will keep up with just about 
any new 35hp motor.  People used to ski behind 20 and 30 hp outboards, so
I don't think they were over-rated.  You don't see many (or any) people 
skiing behind 20hp today.

Where the confusion may have come from in Walt's note, is that about 5 years
back, inboards and I/O's changed their rating system to use propshaft hp
instead of crankshaft hp.  This more accurately reflected the "true" or 
usable hp, as outboards had done all along.  Most of them lost about 10-15%
of their rated hp, 260hp became 240, 130hp became 115hp, etc...

Rick

    re: .-1
    
    Just some nits.  I find this listed HP game amusing/misleading.
    
    The former 260 Mercruisers are now sold as "5.7 Liter", with 230
    propshaft HP in the fine print somewhere.  But there is also
    a Merc "350 Magnum"  (350 ci = 5.7L) with 240 HP in the fine print.
    Marine Power also sells the same engine for a lot of straight inboard
    applications with a listed propshaft HP of 225.  (Hmm, aren't these
    supposed to be *more* efficient than I/Os?) 
    
    I'd say that in going from crankshaft to propshaft ratings, they've
    come down somewhat but probably still wouldn't hold up in a court 
    of law :-)
    
    

    Yup, I must have been bored that day.  I often don't look at the
    posting date, maybe I should.
    
    We ski behind my 1977 25 HP Johnson.  The speeds attained are hardly
    blinding, but its doable.  Is the 25 HP on my engine prop HP?  Sounds
    like it is.  Also this engine was bored out and fitted with slighly
    oversize pistons so I suppose its putting out a little more than 25 HP?
    
    Any idea how much more I might be getting?
    
    Jeff