Conference vicki::boats

    OK, I'll start.  As a Correct Craft owner, I am partial to the Correct
    Craft line.  I feel that they are the best looking boats on the
    water in the tournament ski boat line.  They ride very nicely in
    just about all water conditions and are an excellent all-around
    family boat as well as the defacto-standard in the tournament ski
    boat world (something like the VAX in computers).  When CC developed
    the 2001 series (Ski Nautique and Barefoot Nautique), they designed
    the Variable Planing Hull (VPH) which helps reduce the turbulence
    behind the boat as well as the side spray.  The Barefoot Nautique
    is a deep-V design and I've been told that this combined with the
    VPH makes for an incredibly smooth table for footin', even at long
    line.
    
    As a 3-event boat (tricks, slalom, and jumping) the Ski Nautique
    2001 is considered to be one of if not THE best.  For tricks, the
    table is considered to be moderately flat, but the wakes are excellent,
    sharp and well-defined.  This, unfortuately has a trade-off...the
    slalom and jump wakes are sharper than some other boats.  Mastercraft
    claims the best slalom wake in the business (they're slogan "What
    wake?" is well publicized in WSki mags) and they're right.  I'm
    no pro, but I've skied behind both an '87 Nautique and an '87
    Mastercraft and the MC is far superior for slalom.  The "pull" is
    the same as far as I can tell, but your performance is increased
    several times by the difference in wakes.  But again, the small
    and smooth slalom wake for the Mastercraft is a bummer for tricksters.
    Jumpers like it, though.  As an addition to all this, I've heard
    from friends I ski with that the Supra TS6m is a nice boat also,
    excellent for slalom and jump as well, but it too suffers in the
    tricks arena.  I've talked to some folks that own an American Skier
    and they love it.  These guys really use the boat for what it's
    designed for (they 'foot, jump, slalom, trick, etc.) and they beat
    on their boat pretty heavily.  They say the American Skier can take
    it and from what I can tell the boat is still in pretty good shape
    (it's an '86).
    
    Power plants, well, you're right REG, the 351 PCM is the standard.
    Plenty of beef (I believe they're cranking 260HP out of them now)
    and the boats they're installed in can typically top out at around
    45-48 MPH.  The tranny makes a big difference...the Mastercraft
    Power Slot with the 1.5:1 can tow a house.  My buddy's has a 14"x18"
    prop on his Power Slot.  Another guy I know has an '86 Mastercraft
    with the 454 Chevy engine...what a hunk of iron that thing is...one
    of his valve covers is almost as big as my motor box :-).  Don't
    know much about the Indmar engines, except I know you can get them
    in the Malibu Skiers (Doug will support me on this).  It's a Chevy
    350 4-bolt main (for all you non-gearheads, the 351 uses 2 bolts
    to hold down certain high-stress pieces of the motor, where the
    Indmar uses 4...but fear not 351 owners, your motor isn't going
    to fall apart).
    
    Virtually all tournament ski boats have tracking fins along the 
    "keel" of the boat.  Most seem to have 3 these days.  These are
    meant to keep the boat stable and tracking in a straight line as
    a skier pulls from side to side during slalom runs and for the pull
    to the ramp for jumpers.  Take a look at the jumpers on ESPN and
    see what kind of yank they give the boat when they start across
    the wake for the ramp.  Another benefit of the fins (though I believe
    this to be more of a side effect than a designed-in-feature) is
    that they help to save your prop and rudder from foreign objects
    in the water.  Several times early in the season I have hit sticks
    and such only to look back and see them split in half and upon taking
    my boat out of the water I find small scratches on the fin and not
    a scratch on the prop.  Good idea those fins.
    
    Well, I think I've rambled enough.  I'm sure others will give their
    $0.02 worth.  The above is my $0.05 worth.  :-)  Happy boating!
    
    					...Roger...

    
    	OK so far....  I've found Master Craft at Webster Lake Marina,
    American Skier at Performance Marine in Oxford, also at Marine USA
    in Worcester, and I just read in another topic that there are Nautiques
    on display in Grafton, might take a trip down there this week.

    	re.  the analogy to VAX being a defacto standard..., I'll leave
    that one alone :-^)
    
    	Reg
    
	{Still just casually curious, though I spend a lot of time "browsing"}

    Reg (you ol' tire-kicker you) ...
    
    If memory serves, Denny's also has Ski Eliminator boats, although
    they may have been consignments/trade-ins when I saw them.  I didn't
    ask.  His "garage" tends to have an interesting mix of boats but
    I'm certain that he is a Correct Craft dealer.  I've seen racing
    boats in there, salt water boats, and of course he keeps a Barefoot
    Nautique and a Ski Nautique in the window (boo hoo!)...there was
    also a Fish Nautique across the street last time I was there.  Don't
    remember if he had a Martinique though...may have sold that one.
    
    BTW: about the VAX defacto-standard thingy...I would give credit
    to the originator of that if I knew who it was...statements given
    here do not always reflect that of the author... :-)
    
    					...Roger...

    re .3	Ahh Yes, tire kickin', that reminds me.  
    
    	Boats don't have tires, well maybe some still use 'em as fenders,
    but trailers do.  I see these fancy tournament boats sitting on custom
    trailers, coordinated paint job, etc.  Being more  "function and
    performance"  than  "appearance"  oriented, I was thinking that maybe an
    EasyLoader could save several hundered $$s, might make the difference
    between HAVING the boat vs  "Not this year".  What's the deal ?  Do
    dealers sell packages mostly and provide only a small allowance for
    "delete trailer"  ? 

    	Reg
    
    { there is a  'pivotal dollar'  in every financial decision }

    
    re: .4
    
    	As for the trailers that go with competition ski boats,
    the manufacturer will say that the drive-on trailer supports
    the hull much better than a roller trailer would. Another factor
    to consider is that the trailer is made for the boat and has
    such handy features as a prop/rudder guard which keeps these
    essential parts from meeting with the pavement! Doug uses his
    all the time... :-)
    
    	The big selling features for a tournament boat...
    
    		1) Nearly automotive, easy to work on engine.
    		2) No outdrive
    		3) Lower fuel consumption than I/Os
    		4) skiability
    		5) Handling - Try spinning the wheel at full throttle
    			in an I/O (when I'm NOT in the boat)

    	Drawbacks
    
    		1) $$$
    		2) Rough water ride
    
    
    Rick

    Of course the boat mfg. wants you to buy THEIR trailer so they give
    you all this "it supports the boat better" etc.  But Rick is correct
    in saying that some of the features on these "custom" trailers
    (coordinated paint job and graphics excluded) are really safety
    features that you probably need if you trailer a lot.  For tournament
    boats, the trailers also have clearance for the tracking fins that
    your typical roller-type does not provide.
    
    In many cases, dealers buy boats and trailers as a package and sell
    them that way, although you can buy "just the boat" and get your
    own trailer.  The "boat_only_price" will probably be more than the
    "package_price - trailer_only_price" since they can muck with the
    prices more if they think they're going to sell you a $22K package
    vs. $19K for the boat alone.
    
    					...Roger...

    
    	MasterCraft has the ProStar 200, Hydrodyne has an AWSA approved
    Outboard tournament boat too and I see the  "Barefoot Warrior Comp"
    is an outboard.  I see some claims that some (Slalom) records are
    more likely to fall with an outboard powered boat than an Inboard
    due to "Superior wake characteristics", whatever that means.  I've
    seen the MasterCraft with Evinrude, also with Yamaha, it seems to
    depend on what the dealer carries for outboards, i.e. they buy the
    hull from M/C and the motors are put in at the dealership.

    	So, it seems that some manufacturers still believe in outboards,
    they're used on (I forget which) the tour, at least for jumps.
    
    	Reg
    

There has  been some discussion about AWSA certification of towboats and thought
that I'd post this info here.  This is a summary of the AWSA tests that are used
to "evaluate" boats for certification, but all test results are confidential and
supplied only to the manufacturers.   There are three types of recognition given
to boats by the AWSA: 

        1) National Tournament Towboat - Boats  receiving  this designation have
           passed the tests, have been used in  at  least  20 AWSA events in one
           year, have towed skiers in the AWSA Regional  Championships  and have
           been used in a National Championship tournament.

        2) Approved Towboat - One which has passed the tests  and  has been used
           in at least 20 AWSA events in one year.

        3) Eligible Towboat - One which has passed the evaluation tests.   (Many
           of  the  boats in this category have participated in the most  recent
           tests and are involved in the association's programs.)

================================================================================
                                                (from "The Water Skier" Jan '89)

                        AWSA Towboat Evaluation Procedure

  The technical aspects  of  testing are meant to verify performance required in
tournament skiing.  Each  test  has  a  specific  passing performance.  Any boat
failing to meet that performance  is  disqualified  for  use  in tournaments.  A
brief summary of the tests follows:

1) Distance to 36 mph.
  The distance required to pull up  a  skier  on  a  competition  slalom ski and
accelerate to 36 mph is measured.   This  measurement  may  be  a maximum of 250
feet.  This performance is required because of  the  short  lakes  used  in many
tournaments.    Also, failure to meet this mark indicates  lack  of  appropriate
power.  Testing for barefoot towboats required a minimum top  speed  of  44 mph,
and a minimum distance of 820 feet to reach 44 mph with a skier.

2) Slalom Course Centerline Deviation.
  The amount  of  path  deviation  due  to  the pull of a strong slalom skier is
measured.  Two factors are judged- average and maximum deviation from the boat's
path.  Measurements are done with the skier skiing at maximum division speed and
at 16, 14.25 and 13-meter line lengths.  The average deviation must be less than
.4 feet (.12m), and the maximum  deviation  is  measured.    Since this test may
depend partially on driver skill or familiarity  with the boat, the manufacturer
may supply a driver to provide a best-case  bench mark for comparison with other
test drivers.

3) Jump Course Centerline Deviation.
  The  amount  of path deviation due to the pull  of  a  strong  jump  skier  is
measured.  Two factors are judged- average and maximum deviation  from the boats
path.  Measurements are done with the skier skiing at maximum division speed and
actually  jumping over the ramp or balking after cutting toward the ramp.    The
average deviation must be less than .8 feet (.24m) and the maximum deviation  is
measured.   Since  this test may depend partially on driver skill or familiarity
with  the boat,  the  manufacturer  may  provide  a  best-case  bench  mark  for
comparison with other test drivers.

4) Slalom Spray. 
  The length  of  rope  where  spray  affects  the  skier in the slalom event is
measured.  No  significant  effect  is  allowed  at any line length 13 meters or
longer.  Towboats for  barefoot  water  skiing were tested with skiers doing the
wake slalom event.

5) Slalom Wake.
  The slalom wake and rooster  tail  should not significantly affect the skier's
performance in a negative way.   Wake height and hardness, and the rooster tail,
were evaluated.  For barefoot water skiing,  wake  turbulence  and symmetry were
also evaluated.  Since these are subjective, comments  from  the test skiers are
recorded for the manufacturer's information.  If all skiers  independently agree
that the wake has significant negative effect, the boat is disqualified.

6) Trick Wake.
  The  trick  wake  and  table  should  not  significantly  affect  the  skier's
performance  in  a  negative  way.    Wake turbulance, width, height, sharpness,
definition and  symmetry  are evaluated.  For barefoot water skiing, the curl of
the wake is  evaluated.    Since  these  are  subjective,  skier's  comments are
recorded for the manufacturer's  information.    If all the skiers independently
agree that the wake and  table  have  significant  negative  effect, the boat is
disqualified.

7) Handling and Maneuverability.
  Each boat is given two types  of maneuverability tests.  The first consists of
turning the boat 180 degrees at specified  speeds  and  turning diameters.  They
are:  75'/17 mph;  75'/26 mph;  150'/36 mph.  The second test requires each boat
to make a series of turns forming a figure-8 pattern with circle diameters of 75
feet.  Two passes are required, one at 17 mph  and  the  second  at 26 mph, both
within  the  same  prescribed pattern.  Each performance is monitored to  ensure
that the turns are made safely and under control.

8) Human Engineering.
  The boat  is  examined  for  usability  in  tournament  skiing  from  a  human
engineering/use perspective.   Areas  considered  include:  speedometer response
and accuracy, throttle and  steering  sensitivity  and  location, safety hazards
such as sharp or slippery  areas, pylon security, seat comfort and practicality,
and driver's visibility ahead and of instruments.  Comments from the testers are
recorded  for  the manufacturer's information.  If  after presentation of  these
findings  to  the manufacturer major uncorrected problems remain,  the  boat  is
disqualified.

    While we're on this subject, I couldn't resist saying this:
    	How can you actually be serious about buying a boat from a company
    that manufactures tents and coolers? :-)  (I'm referring to Coleman and
    Master Craft)  Correct Craft is the only way to go.
    	Sorry to the MC owners.  It was too easy to let go.

re                      <<< Note 78.9 by BUFFER::GOLDSMITH >>>
>                     -< I couldn't let this one get away >-

>    While we're on this subject, I couldn't resist saying this:
>    	How can you actually be serious about buying a boat from a company
>    that manufactures tents and coolers? :-)  (I'm referring to Coleman and
>    Master Craft)  Correct Craft is the only way to go.
>    	Sorry to the MC owners.  It was too easy to let go.


	At BJ's wholesale club (east coast discount store, for those 
who don't know)  there is a Coleman 48 qt cooler on sale.

	At Webster Lake Marina  (Mass, for those who don't know)  there 
is a pro-star 190 in the show room on a color coordinated trailer.



	There is a remarkable color similarity  -  GUESS  ???






	*      M   -   A   -    U   -    V   -     E      *

    Idle curiosity,
    
    I've been finding myself in the awkward position of looking at used
    boats again. I've had my present one only 13 months. I've seen a few
    that I've thought were overpriced given the economy and the boat
    market.
    
    Given a budget of $10K, or less [less is better :^)], how much used ski
    boat could I expect to get. Prices I've seen so far are; '85
    Mastercraft for $10.5K, '88 Mastercraft 190 for $15.5, '70 CC Mustang
    for $5500, and a host of new ones. The best deal I've heard of was an
    '87 Nautique that went for $7500, bank forclosure, sealed bid. I
    haven't seen any used Malibu's. I'd like to avoid Ski Centurions with
    the Tru-Trac II hulls, ...what else ? I don't have any brand loyalty
    although I'd prefer to stcik with something well known ( CC, MC, or
    Malibu )
    
    My wife started all this as we left Owens last weekend. 
    
    Wife: Why don't we buy that new Ski-Supreme ? 
    Me: Why
    Wife: It looks better than our boat, it pulls skiers better, and you
          could get a boom and teach me how to foot.
    Me: Sounds good to me !
    
    ~jeff
    

    
    Jeff,
    
    	Those prices do seem a bit steep. Are those prices from dealers?
    
    Just one other comment.... You need to change "LIKE to stay away
    from Tru-trac IIs" to "MUST stay away from Tru-trac IIs". At BF speed
    the porpoising is unbelievable, especially on the boom.
    
    Rick....
    
    >Wife: It looks better than our boat, it pulls skiers better, and you
    >      could get a boom and teach me how to foot.
    
    BTW: Does Maria have any sisters?
                                                            

    Does anyone out there have any experience skiing behind an outboard
    powered tournament-style boat. I'm thinking along the lines of the
    Barefoot Sanger for example (see your latest issue of WaterSki mag.)
    The BS seems to have excellent slalom & barefoot wakes, mucho power, an
    open seating arrangement, and it's 700# lighter than your average
    inboard. The immediate compromises that I think of is tracking, which
    was rated at 3 props [below an inboard but not bad], and ease of exit
    and entry for a skier [ which would be a hassle with high wrap
    bindings]. Reading between the lines of the article I get the
    impression the boat is hard to maintain at trick speeds (15-18 mph).
    Is that because it's an outboard and the weight balance is different
    than an inboard ? Comments ? 
    
    A year ago I saw a Ski Centurion outboard, and I've heard of Barefoot
    Warriors (isn't that what Seipel uses in his HRF video). I'm wondering
    if its worth considering an outboard powered boat for my recreational
    skiing needs.
    
    ~jeff

    
    Jeff,
    
    	Yeah WSki Mag said the same thing about the Flightcraft 20XLT OB.
    "Difficult to see at speeds below 20"... I assumed the same thing you
    did with the Sanger, that it's just the fact the OBs go bow up at
    low speeds. Both the Sanger and the FC sounded nice otherwise, although
    I wish somehow they'd engineer a FULL platform onto them, DHW are
    *real* tough without one!
    
    Rick

    RE:: .13
    
    Jeff,
    
    My experiances with the Barefoot Sanger were very good for an outboard.
    It did not track quite as well as a Warrior,but had better trick wakes
    The slalom wakes were a very small,but kind of hard. At 36/28 off and
    deeper,the wake was very narrow and small,no rooster,no spray,but I
    could feel some rolling,not bad though,nothing like those Hydrodynes.
    It was so roomy,I thought there should of been a hot tub in there.
    Lots of room under the bow too.
    
    As for barefootin,no spray out on the boom,and the wakes were well 
    defined. There was someturbulence but the motor may have been trimmed
    up too far?
    
    If you are not REALLY REALLY serious about your slalom and/or tricking
    speed tolerances and slalom tracking, I'd say go for it.
    
    matt

I just sold my Baja outboard and bought a '92 Ski Brendella Super Comp.  It was
a tough decision for me because I loved my Baja.  They 
both have their good points.  If I was to pick the two biggest benefits of an
outboard, it would be ease of use in the Fall and Spring (no messing with 
draining the engine block, etc.), and the open area in the boat.  The two 
biggest drawbacks (and why I decided to go with an inboard) were the lack of
tracking and the inability to maintain good trick speeds.  An outboard just 
isn't made to run at low speeds, and I was constantly adjusting it up and down
trying to maintain the proper speed.  If I hadn't started skiing the course, I 
would still have my Baja (I don't trick, I just pull them :-).

/wayne

    Wayne,
       Guess your gonna have to change your node now  :^)
    Best of luck with your new toy.
    
    Doug

Naaa, I'll keep it for sentimental reasons.  Of course, all you BAJA owners 
out there, it can be had for the right price :-)

/wayne

    Sheesh, /wayne, and all this time I thought you were sentimentally
    attached to the Sea of Cortez!
    
    <g>
    
    John H-C
    

    Yo,Wayne
    
    When the ice melts,let's get that 285 1:1 out on the water and ski if
    it pulls as hard as the geared boats. I know she'll run 36,but we 
    should find out how well it accelerates to and holds 36.
    
    If it does a good job,I think we may save a lot of people a lot of 
    money when they go out to buy their next boat. It is definately a
    pleasure driving my Supra through the course now that it is pushing
    300 hp. That along with the power plus tranny makes for a VERY SOLID
    pull.
    
    ski ya later,
    
    Mattrix

    
    Moved by moderator
    ------------------
    
              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
================================================================================
Note 941.0                      INBOARD SKI BOATS                        1 reply
GIDDAY::MCVINISH                                     12 lines  20-JAN-1992 02:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hello Out There,
                    This title is for all you people out there like me
    who have an inboard ski boat. I started this because i did not know
    if i should be in the cars or boats note.
    
              I have an 18.5 foot Lewis "fireball" ski boat powered by
    a 350 chev through a dog clutch with 1.1 drive ratio. The motor is
    centre mounted in the boat . The boat is manufactured by LEWIS SKIBOATS
    in Sydney Australia. I live near Brisbane Australia and ski and 
    Barefoot my brains out on a couple of dams handy to me.
    
                                    Brad McVinish.

    Moved by moderator    
    ------------------
    
              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
================================================================================
Note 941.1                      INBOARD SKI BOATS                         1 of 1
GIDDAY::MCVINISH                                      9 lines  20-JAN-1992 03:11
                         -< 350 chev inboard rebuild >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This winter i plan a rebuild on the 350. I have a set of rebuild 186
    cast fullie heads with 202 inlet 1.6 exh valves ported and polished
    with 110 lb on seat springs. A EDilbrock performer inlet manifold,
    600 cfm holley, speed-pro cam cs1013r grind @50 tho inlet 214 ex 224
    inlet lift total .442 ex .465 . With the 1.1 drive and 14 degree shaft
    angle i hope to spin a 12 X 14.5 ( 3 blade) prop with supercup up to
    about 5,500 rpm. Close to a 60mph centremout. Also i hope to get there
    in a hurry. Anyone had a simular buildup in a boat..can you reccomend a
    better cam spec for marine use in a 350 chev.

    I am somewhat disapointed with the way that A.W.S.A. approves tow-boats
    nowadays. It seemed that back in the 80's,the testing was taken very
    seriously and to pass was quite a prestigious honor. 
    
    In the past couple of years a lot of new  boats have appeared on the 
    tourney scene that had less than ideal characteristics and really
    should'nt of been towing skiers.
    
    I will not mention any names but some examples of what I have seen:
    
    A boat that had so much spray at tricking speeds the judges could not
    see the skier's manuevers.
    
    A boat that when turned hard in a P-turn,dipped so much in the front
    that spray came over the windshield and hit the driver and judge.
    
    A boat with assymetrical trick wakes that could not be evened out
    by moving passengers around.
    
    A boat with such a large rooster tail at 32 off it hit the skiers in
    the private parts.
    
    And those electronic speedos,all I have seen is problems from them.
    They can't keep em dialed in.
    
    I was acting as back up timer in one slalom tournament where the boat
    we were using would slide so much as the skier pulled against it that
    it slid right out of the boat course and on top of  buoys that I was
    suppose to be timing.
    
    At our elevation there were many boats that could not pull 36 through 
    the course with 240 hp engines,some could not pull a 35 in jump eithor.
    
    According to AWSA,we could not even change the props to make the boats
    run harder.
    
    That is probably enough examples of the poor designs(I should say
    young,unproven,rough designs) out there.
    
    The one thing that really upsets me is that AWSA tests these boats
    in Sept for the next season. Well,if after that the manufacturer
    comes up with something that makes the boat a better product,they
    are not allowed to change it. 
    
    Wayne will have to help me out on this one if I don't get the facts
    straight. Ski Brendella got it's Super Comp through the awsa tests
    passing with flying colors back in Sept. After that they came up with a
    way to reduce the spray even more without sacraficing in any other area
    like trick wakes,tracking etc....
    
    So they incorporated it into their hull for '92. But,after the changes
    which made it a better boat,AWSA disqualified it. Flat rejected the 
    boat! Let me say that the new Super Comp by Brendella is one hell of a
    boat and will be knocking on the doors of some other WELL KNOWN tourney
    boats. It is roomy,has great wakes for all events,and handles like
    a Nau or a Supra. 
    
    Why can't the AWSA take a second look at a boat that has been slightly
    redesigned after the official tests,they don't take a very official 
    look at them during the tests anyway if you want my opinion.
    
    Since when should a company who is striving to improve it's product
    be punished for it?
    
    matt

    
    I can't resist....!
    
    >boats. It is roomy,has great wakes for all events,and handles like
    >a Nau or a Supra. 
    
    	Nuff said, huh Reg?

    I am not sure that I understand you reply. Nothing personal but,
    are you being sarcastic?
    
    Cuz,the days of the major 5 inboard manufacturer's ruling the world
    is gone. There are a few companies who,in the last couple of years
    have come out with some real boats,Ski Brendella is leading the way
    for the new guys on the block to follow. 
    
    I bet Correct Craft won't sit back for 7 years again watching everyone
    else pass them up like they did with the 2001. 
    
    Matt

RE: 78.25   by COMET::KLEINM

>> I am not sure that I understand you reply. Nothing personal but,
>> are you being sarcastic?
   
Hmmmm, I took it as I'm sure Rick S. intended it, a little good natured
ribbin'.  This ain't brain surgery, we like to have fun.  If you're 
gonna dish it out (as you have) ya gotta be able to take it too, Matt. 

Rick

    
    Matt,
    
    	Yeah, I was being sarcastic, for the most part (did I include
    a smiley?)
    
    	But, I do feel that purchase of certain "proven" brands of
    tournament boats does provide a measure of insurance that the product
    is well engineered and well tested and has a basically solvent company 
    standing behind it. For example, I'm sure there are many unhappy 
    TruTrac II owners. Personnally, I wouldn't go buy a Ski-riffic (even
    though it looks like a '65 Mustang) or any other tournament boat
    which is new to the market. I'd rather let someone else's money
    determine whether or not the nre product has any inherent flaws.
    
    Rick

I think that is part of what Matt was trying to say.  It used to be that if 
AWSA ran the boat through its tests and put its stamp of approval on the boat,
you could feel fairly confident that your investment was sound.  Now it is
just whoever comes forward with a boat and a check in hand.  Water Ski Magazine
tests are even more of a joke.  According to them, every boat and ski they test
will fit the needs of everyone from the beginner to the tournament skier (don't
want to take a chance that you might get a potential advertiser upset.)  The
disqualification of the Super Comp hurt Brendella because they pride themselves
in being 'selected' to pull in the U.S. Open.  The Open is one tournament that
you have to qualify for by your performance, rather than a large check like a 
lot other tournaments.  The only way you get selected for the U.S. Open is to 
qualify by pulling the local and Regional Tournaments.  Brendella will still be
there with their Shortline Comp, but they wanted to qualify the Super Comp 
this year because they feel it is even a better boat than the Shortline.  
Brendella isn't bitching over it though.  When I talked with Bob Jesson from 
Brendella he said that yes, they had technically broken the rules, so they under
stood the disqualification.

/wayne

>> Hmmmm, I took it as I'm sure Rick S. intended it, a little good natured
>> ribbin'.  This ain't brain surgery, we like to have fun.  If you're 
>> gonna dish it out (as you have) ya gotta be able to take it too, Matt. 

You aren't saying Matt is opioniated are you? 

Sorry, Matt, I couldn't resist. :-) :-) :-)

I wasn't upset by the 'jab'.  I don't see anything wrong with comparing yourself
to the established leaders when you are the new kid on the block.  How else do
you calibrate yourself?

    Anyone have comments, pro or con, on '87-89 vintage Ski Supreme TS or
    American Skier Advance tourney boats. If you can beleive what you read
    in old issues of WaterSki magazine either is excellent choice for a
    recreational waterskier. 
    
    ~jeff

    The other top 3 boats on the market are
    
    Supra
    Ski Supreme
    and 
    American skier
    
    

    Moved by mod...
    
================================================================================
Note 27.32                  Boston Whaler question ?                    32 of 32
COMET::KLEINM "NOTHING IS TOO EXTREME"               24 lines   3-MAR-1992 00:26
                    -< American Skier gets the slight nod >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DAVID,
    
    I used to ski with a guy who owned Supremes. The '87 was a better boat
    than the '85. It had a better(more solid feel to it.) I also ski with
    two guys who own '89 Americans. Overall,I feel that the American Skier
    is a better boat,the ride is not as harsh across the wakes,it has a bit
    more room in it,and does'nt slide around as much. 
    
    The wakes behind both boats are good,the American skier has a hard
    rooster at 22 off,and the supreme has hard but low wakes at 15 off.
    The prop causes some problems at barefoot speeds with the Supreme and
    the table is turbulent. They both had a spray problem starting as early
    as 28 off with the Supreme being a bit worse in the wind.
    
    Recreationally,I feel that eithor would be a good choice as they both
    have small wakes at slow slalom speeds and they both handle well
    without a lot of effort in the steering wheel. If you want a boat that
    handles more swiftly,go with the Supreme,if you want a softer ride,go
    with the American skier.
    
    hope that helps.....
    
    
    matt

    Looking through my most recent issue of Wski Mag(the one with the
    chickees in the bathing suits) I seen a Correct Craft ad that claims
    Andy Mapple recently set a new world record of 3 1/2 @ 41 off behind
    a 1992 SKI NAUTIQUE. How is this possible? I think the Australian 
    tourney season is underway as I type. Do you think the Aussies are
    using new CC's? Does anyone know where this happened so early in the
    year? 
    
    All I can say is "MC,watch out,CC is slowly but surely taking all your
    world records away!!
    
    
    Matt,
    
    
    who deep deeep deeeep down inside still feels like he belongs to 
    the CORRECT CRAFT FAMILY

re           <<< Note 78.32 by COMET::KLEINM "NOTHING IS TOO EXTREME" >>>
>                       -< NAU takes slalom record back? >-

>    a 1992 SKI NAUTIQUE. How is this possible? I think the Australian 
			  =====================

	a) He's  THE  Brit !

	b) He's behind  THE  Boat !

	Nuf said.

    I know it is Quite possible,I was just wondering where a class R
    tourney could of been held so early in the season where Mapple
    could of done this.
    
    Matt

    
    
    I heard a rumor that Forrest marine is no longer a CC dealer. Can
    anyone confirm this?
    
    I think I'll start a seperate topic about
    Dealer/distributo/manufacturer realtions....
    
    Rick

re              <<< Note 78.35 by KAHALA::SUTER "Never too Hot!" >>>
>                         -< Forrect <> Correct Craft? >-

    
>    I heard a rumor that Forrest marine is no longer a CC dealer. Can
>    anyone confirm this?


	Well, sortof yes and sortof no.  They aren't pushing boats 
this year, their interest is low...  "the economy", etc.  Their 
margins are much better on the tent and travel trailers, which 
just happen to move a lot faster  - -  Bob talks to me a bit 
sometimes.  If you want a boat, they'll get it for you, their 
relationship with Rochester is current, etc.

>    I think I'll start a seperate topic about
>    Dealer/distributo/manufacturer realtions....

	I think you will too, I think the other mod will probably move 
this reply to there (-:

    
>    Rick


	Reg

    Ski Centurion has introduced their 1993 Tru-Trac already.
    
    That was probably smart strategy.
    
    What I did not think was smart?/or impressed with is their "new"
    
     Centurionics.
    
    I realize that at one time,t-boats were a bit on the rough side and
    behind the times,and to a point they still have a ways to go,i.e.
    fuel injection,but today's boats are quieter,roomier,more powerful
    have a smaller wake,in some cases built better,and so on.
    
    But this Centurionics stuff sounds like/looks like/could be a
    nightmare.  There is no keyed ignition,which may be pretty cool as long
    as it works,and touch pad controls for things such as the blower and
    what not. If any of that stuff shorts out,I would think that it would
    be a nightmare to fix,I don't know,it looks cool,but I think some
    of the equipment in a tug boat aught to be kept simple.
    
    Until they knock the rooster tail down,not too many people are going
    to get serious about the Tru-Trac anyhow.
    
    Matt

    After reading my last entry,I realized that I was talking out of both
    sides of my mouth. First I mentioned that t-boats could use fuel
    injection,which is a complicated unit to work on,and expensive. 
    
    Later,I dogged Centurionics. No more complicated than e.f.i..
    
    I like to be able to tear my Holley apart if something is wrong
    but would love to have the added efficiency that it would give us
    up here at 6000 ft.  
    
    I guess I'll just go with the trend and hope it don't break down.
    
    
    Matt

    One more tid bit that I found interesting.
    
    A friend of mine who bought my '87 Nau took it back to South Dakota
    over the 4th of July,elevation was somewhere around 1,500 ft.
    
    He claimed the Nau would run on up and slightly over 45 mph with
    the pcm 351 1:1. Out here it will only run 38,and takes a while to
    get there at that.
    
    You guys out east are spoiled! Why don't you send us a little bit
    of that oxy rich air?  :-)

    I would think that EFI would be an excellent thing to have out there
    if properly done.  I've often wondered what is taking so long for 
    Fuel injection to make it's way into the marine world.  When Trailer
    Boat Mag does an evaluation of tow vehicles (wheeled version not
    boats!) the EFI equipped motors all do better in the mountain-towing
    portion of the tests versus the carburated engines.  Their ability
    to self-regulate for altitude really helps.  Couldn't you install a
    Paxton or Vortech supercharger to increase the air density?  They take
    up no more space than a waterpump or alternator on the front of the
    engine and should work with your 4 barrel marine carb.  Of course they
    cost over $2K for the complete kit but you would probably have a hard
    time finding a better (ie: less expensive) way of pumping up your
    horsepower.
    On another note, I would think that touch-pad controls could be made to
    be much more reliable and corrosion resistant in the marine environment
    than the old toggle/rocker switches that most boats still use.  We,
    Salem Manufacturing, have produced a series of computer keyboards for
    years with a sealed membrane keypad.  They are meant to be used out in 
    harsh manufacturing areas were anything including acids may end up
    being splashed on them.  The internal contacts of the keypad switches
    are completely sealed within rubber membranes.  Only the connectors for
    the wires are exposed.  You could use these keyboards under water if
    you wanted to.  A similiar design in a boat, especially in salt water
    usage should last almost forever.
    Wayne

    Wayne,
    
    At the local Supra dealer,they installed a supercharger to the
    Mariah open bow. It accelerated and topped out higher than the comp
    with the 285.  I was impressed! The cost was/is too much though for
    me. I have been real impressed with the new 285's,and with the
    electronic ignition,they start well and are more maintanence free.
    
    I agree with you,fuel injection would be make the 285 pull harder
    than a D-9 cat pushes. We(the high altitude folks) are a minority.
    And as I said yesterday in  another topic,the 240 hp engines are still
    plenty of power for those using these boats at lower elevations.
    
    
    The largest MC dealer in the world is located up in Washington and
    he claims that they order all the Pro-stars with the old 240.
    Up here,a Pro star would have a hard time holding 34 in the course,
    if it could get there before the gates,with the 240.
    
    Anyway,I was/am impressed with what you had to say about the touch
    pads reliability. I did'nt know /realize their advancements.
    
    Matt

Geez Matt, how the heck do you guys 'foot up there?  38 is right on the lower
edge of the speed range for two-foot footin' and certainly too slow for one-foot
maneuvers.

...Roger... low_altitude_spoiled_brat  :-)

Barefoot warrior, MC Barefoot, Barefoot Nau, etc.

    
    Just a slight nit, The Barefoot Nautique is a V-Drive inboard, 
    not an Outboard.
    
    To my knowledge (Which admittedly is limited :-) ) Correct Craft
    has never built an outboard.
    
    Rick

    Don't have any barefoot Nau's up here.The Bare Nau is a v-drive
    that is suppose to run around 50 mph even with a full crew,wish we had
    one up here
    
    We have friends with outboards.
    
    Matt

re 90's  Ski Nautiques with detachable platforms (maybe others too).

	This has been a minor annoyance on my boat, but it wasn't
until someone mentioned it last week that I decided to  "think it
through"  and come up with a fix (a sorta fix).   The  "design
deficiency" (to be polite) is that there is a small opening (gap)
between the platform and the hull;  at the ends of the platform it is
just wide enough to snag a rope.  I know, with perfect driving and
rope tossing, skiers that never change their minds about whether they
want another pull, etc., there is never a slack line behind the boat -
who's perfect, it happens (-:   Anyway, my makeshift fix was to cut a
couple of short lengths of 3/4 inch plastic hose and wedge them into
the opening, its just  about a perfect fit, isn't  *_TOO_*  unsightly,
is effective and CHEAP !  I already had the hose, it is my gas syphon
hose, just cut lengths to the thickness of the swim platform.  A more 
aesthetic solution might be a couple of teak filler blocks, but I 
suspect they would be difficult to fit closely - this works.

	Reg

    Reg,
    
    cool fix,when ever I got up to un-snag a line,I tipped my beer over.
    
    That got annoying..
    
                          :-)
    
    Matt.

    Soon,I will be able to give ya'll some input/feedback from the
    new Tige' ski boat. Some friends of mine just got back from 
    California and while down there they checked out Malibu,brendella
    and Tige'. They were impressed enough by the (Tiga) that they ordered
    one. I don't know when it will be here,but I can't wait to slalom
    behind it. 
    
    Another friend is probably going to buy a previously-loved 88 supra
    comp. I can't believe all the people around here buying t-boats.
    Let's see,that gives me 9 boats to ski behind this year!! Hell,I 
    aught to just sell mine and sit down on the dock with my thumb in the
    air.
    
    1 MC,2 supra's,2 brendellys,1 Tige,1 American skier,1 Moomba,and 1
    Eliminator which has THE worst rooster I have ever felt.
    
    
     Matt

    I can't believe,please forgive me CC people,but I forgot to mention
    my ol' Nau,the best 28 off boat on the lake!

    Matt,
      What year is the Eliminator?  A friend has an '84 (which is actually
    an older Malibu hull - the molds were sold to Eliminator to create some
    cash flow for Malibu back in the '80's when Eliminator thought they
    wanted to get into the T-Boat market...)  the wake of which isn't too
    bad except for the rooster tail - kind of splashy, somewhat
    intimidating but it doesn't knock you over...  Nothing like the '89
    Marlin/Magnum with the fire-hose rooster tail that I skiied
    behind... Once.
      The Elim is a real head turner tho'.  5 color gelcoat, light gray
    with 3 shades of blue (one is repeated) and 290 hp Indmar.  Looks great
    when it's parked next to my 5 color Malibu (red with black and 2 shades
    of gray and white stripes also with 290 hp Indmar) 'cause their the
    same size and shape with similar graphics - except mine has a *much*
    better wake :^)
      People not_in_the_know often mistake them for the same MFG, although
    they were made a couple of miles apart in California - possibly by the
    same people.  (I heard that Malibu, Eliminator and Centurion have gone
    through various personnel migrations over the years...you gotta go
    where the work is.)
    
    Doug

    She's an 85. And the rooster was not just intimidating for me,
    it actually slowed me down through the wakes,I definately felt it,
    and it made my 36/15 tough to run,after that though,at 22,28,and 32,
    i thought the boat pulled like an animal,no spray and a flat
    trough. 
    
    I agree with you about the Marlin Magnum,wow! that baby can hurt a
    man. I too,only skied behind it once,and it was at a time when I was
    trying to learn 36/15,I would make some,fall on others,but with
    the MM,I could'nt get past the 3 ball. 
    
    When someone is learning a particular line length,you need a boat
    that will assist you,once it becomes an easy pass,you can tolerate
    a lot,you adapt and cope with it by pulling harder,longer,or what
    ever.
    
    Matt

    
    Moved by moderator
    ------------------
              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
================================================================================
Note 1104.0              MASTERCRAFT vrs. CORRECT CRAFT               No replies
UNIVSE::HYER                                         10 lines  18-AUG-1993 17:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

	To renew old discussions;  I'm in the market for a new ski boat and
am looking at the Mastercraft Prostar 205, and Correctcraft Ski Nautique.
What are the opinions for the 93 models?

	I've not owned a ski boat of this caliber before (16' Conroy with 90hp
Merc outboard is my current boat).  Any recommendations greatly appreciated.

Dave

    
    re: Dave,
    
    	Forget those Nastycrafts! Buy a Nautique!
    
    	Seriously, there seem to be positive aspects about both boats. For
    1993 Correct Craft has just gone to fiberglass stringers ala MC. CC
    argured for quite sometime that their wood stringers produced less
    hull noise than MC's fiberglass. Apparently, they've managed to fix
    or ignore this argument. I haven't driven a '93 so I can't say.
    
    	What I can say is that of all the tournament boats I've driven
    (MC Prostar 190, Malibu, Flightcraft, Ski Centurian) the Nautiques have
    a certain feel about them. They just feel more solid and stable to me.
    (Ok guys, I know you'll all burn me on this one! flame away!) This 
    feeling could very well be because I own an '87 Nautique, but when
    other tournament boat sales-droids use Nautiques as a standard for
    their product I get the impression that maybe I'm not the only one that
    feels this way.
    
    	As for wake characteristics, I have skiied behind a 205 once or
    twice and I'd compare it to my '87 Nautique but certainly not a '93
    Nautique. Hull configuration and weight play such an important part
    in wake characteristics, that the Open Bow Nautique is rated much less
    desireable in the wake arena than the closed bow and that's only a
    matter of maybe a couple hundred lbs in the bow!
    
    	The '93 Nautique wake would be more comparable to the Prostar 190.
    Many would argue that the 190 has a better slalom wake.
    
    	MC does have the patent (I think) on their fancy little ski pylon
    bearing'd rope attachment, which I assume would significantly extend the
    life of tow ropes.
    
    	BTW: New England Correct Craft only has one leftover '92 and it's
    an open bow.
    
    
    	Good luck!
    
    	Rick
    
    	BTW: When do I get to ski behind the new Nautique? :-)

Rick,
	Well, I am leaning more towards the Mastercraft- but as much for 
convenience of a local dealer, rather than the two hour tow (if required) to the
nearest CC dealer.  Not to mention that my pickup is probably marginally powered
to haul either.

	I demo'ed a Prostar 190 (closed bow) and skiied behind it this weekend.
I expected, and was treated to the flatest wake with the lowest curl I've
seen.  Then again- this was my first ski behind any tournament boat.  It had the
285hp Indmar/MC engine, was out of the hole with me up before I could say 
"..t it".  The handling felt like my Miata and cornered about as flat.

	I'm surprised with your comment of the wake sensitivity to bow 
configuration.  I am looking at open bows (for ski fanatics with families). 
Since we usually ski with more than a spotter in the boat, the open bow provides
the additional passenger room while using the pylon.  The MC pylon has a 
teflon ring that turns on the pylon itself, while the CC does advertise a
teflon finish- it seemed more rough.  One (small one) for MC here.
I'm also interested in the wake at 18-25, as I'm beginning to kneeboard.
(probably don't have to think about barefooting in this lifetime.)

	I hope to demo a 93 Sport Nautique at MacCullums Boathouse (Epsom NH)
this weekend.  He had one left 2 weeks ago.  The new stringer system is 
something they were pushing hard, as well as a composite liner to quite and
reduce vibration in the ride.  The Prostar 190 did exhibit a little vibration,
but nothing compared to what I'm used to.

	If you ever get to Thompson Lake in Otisfield Maine, you are welcome
to ski behind ......... whatever (we are always looking for a spotter).

Dave	

Well, I'm yet another biased Correct Craft owner, but I will have to admit that
the MC Prostar 190 has the best slalom wake there is.  Period.  But, since
you're looking at the bowriders (which are heavier than the traditional ski
boats), I think you'll find the Sport Nautique to be the better choice (there's
my CC bias sneaking in here).  Plus the Sport looks awesome.  And a red one
would look even more awesome behind my nice red pickup truck!  :-)

Good luck with your search and let us know when the first "come take a few runs
behind my new Nautique" party will be!  :-)

...Roger...

    Interesting CC ad in this month's Trailer Boat Mag.  They showed a 
    Kneeboarder getting serious air while being towed behind a bow rider
    Nautique (at least I think it was a Nautique).  The picture showed two 
    people sitting in the back of the boat.  The text accompanying the 
    picture said something to the affect of:  "If you want a great slalom
    ski wake, have your passengers sit in the bow area.  For a great
    kneeboard wake, have them sit in the rear lounge area."  I guess
    they're trying to make sure they appeal to as broad a group of boaters
    as possible.  It came off as a poor ad created by someone who was
    searching for an edge over the competition.
    Wayne

    WHOA! DAVE!

    	Please don't ski behind a Sport Nautique and compare it to a
    Prostar 190, Nautique closed bow or even an open bow Nautique. The
    Sport just won't make the grade. The Sport Nautique is set on a Barefoot
    Nautique hull and provides a wake that's great for barefoot and
    kneeboard but stinks for slalom.  In other words, after skiing behind
    the MC 190 you'll feel as if you're skiing behind the Queen Mary.

    	Apples to apples (did I really say that?!?) the Sport should be
    compared to the MC 205. The OB Nautique would be somewhere between
    the Nautique CB and the Sport for slalom wakes, of course, closer
    to the CB.

    Rick

    	Where the heck is Otisfield? Ain't near Parsonsfield is it? :-)
    
    	Hey Rog.... Bigot?... how 'bout this.... "The open bow Ski Nautique
    leftover at New England Correct Craft is a reeeaaaallll pretty blue
    one!"...

>>  Hey Rog.... Bigot?... how 'bout this.... "The open bow Ski Nautique
>>  leftover at New England Correct Craft is a reeeaaaallll pretty blue
>>  one!"...

It ain't FB, is it (as in FBB)?  :-)  :-)

Sorry Reg, but I couldn't resist!  That was for bringing up my rock climbing
expedition back in the "Is the Merrimack River low?" note.  :-)

...Roger...

If it came down to color- I'd go for the Sport Nautique hands down.  In
purple and black- its a head turner!!

Rick, just how much different is the wake on the Prostar 205 open bow versus
the 190 closed bow??  Both boats of interest are open bows, but my recent 
demo/ski was behind the 190 closed bow.

Maybe in context this is a 'don't care.'  I'm used to an outboard with a 
managable wake.  If you talk about the Queen Mary, that's skiing behind my 
neighbor's Stingray with I/O.  I'm up to serious recreational skiing, and less
serious kneeboarding.  Wouldn't make the tournament cut.

The waterski magazine review gave the 205 openbow 3 out of 4 (skis) for slalom 
characteristics.

Otisfield is in the Sebago lakes region of Maine. About 40 minutes from Portland.

Where is New England CC located.  The factory sent me to Epsom NH.

Dave

    
    Dave,
    
    	For slalom wake I'd personally rate the boats discussed like this...
    1 being the best and 10 the worst...
    
    1......2......3......4......5......6......7......8......9......10
    ^ ^    ^                           ^      ^                    ^
    | |    |                           |      |                    |
    | |    |                           |      |                Stingray
    | |    |                           |   Sport Nautique
    | |    |                        MC 205
    | |  Ski Nautique O/B
    | |_Ski Nautique C/B
    |_MC 190
    
    YMMV...
    
    Yeah I know, I was far to easy on MCs, huh?
    
    
    

    Oh yeah....

    	New England Correct Craft is located in Gonic, NH which is right
    beside Rochester. Probably not too bad a drive from Sebago. Out route
    202 I would assume.
    
    	NECC is on Flagg Rd which is south of Rochester, NH on route 125
    right near Ray's Marina which happens to be a Mastercraft dealer.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Rick

    
    I'll second that emotion about open-bow Nautique and MC's,
    they are not good for slalom.  At least not for us women,
    maybe you need to weight over 250lbs to get through them
    wakes!
    
    I ski behind a 92' Pro-Star and a 91' Ski Nautique pretty
    regulary, I'll take the Pro-Star for it's wake characteristics
    (if it's ever offered to me), and the Nautique for its
    handling and roominess....the wake's not too bad either!  
    
    Course, my Baja bow-rider beats them both hands down... NOT!  :>)
    
    Jeanne

    All of this mumbo-jumbo and techno babble is good to a point. If the
    ultimate use of the boat is 15' off recreational skiing across a windy
    crowded lake for a few hours on weekends then the slalom wake wouldn't
    be my first concern. I'd be looking for a dry and comfy ride (CC over
    MC on this one), room for passengers, storage for coolers and aquatic
    toys of destruction.
    
    I hate to introduce logic into a purchase of passion but, consider what
    your 'real' needs are and buy the boat that meets most of them. I'd be
    willing to bet that the 15' off slalom wake *isn't* in the top 5,
    judging from your base note. For off-season use an open bow will be a
    little less usefull as your occupants fight for the seat behind the 
    windshield. Service from a local dealer should be a consideration, and
    eventually re-sale value. No-one wants to buy the first or only brand
    of a boat in the area. If you have to tow a lot you should keep an eye
    on the overall rig weight too.
    
    My boat (Flightcraft 18XLT) has a great overall 5 event wake but is a 
    compromise on storage, and I don't leave the dock on windy crowded days 
    because of the low freeboard. I have a ten-month old toddler :*), and I'm 
    reluctant to venture too far with him in the boat. On the other hand, it's 
    one of the lightest tournament inboards so it tows nicely (which I have to 
    do every time to use it), and 90% of my use is on a sheltered river pulling
    recreational knee/skiboards, slaloming at 15' off, and occasionally 
    pulling a barefooter. In any one area (wake characteristics, comfort, 
    storage, occupant seating, ease of towing) my boat isn't the best,
    although it was the best choice for my needs. Oh, did I mention that
    the local dealer was easy to deal with, and it ultimately fit my budget? 
    :^)
    
    And oh by-the-way, for all you wake wiennies, the hot slalom boat is
    the Tige' 2000 slm Comp, not the MC190. And if there was a Tige' dealer
    on the eastcoast we might actually get to see one someday.
    
    ~jeff

Jeff,
	Thanks for the grounding in logic and reality.  It's always good to
insure both feet on the ground, at least on occasion.

	You have touched on lots of things we have considered as we think about
this investment(?)!  

	We are serious recreational skiers, and as you suggest, the wake 
characteristics at 15 off is not a top ten concern.  However, I do want to
make a quantum leap forward at standard lenghts over what I'm used to today.
I think, hope, Rick's scale is a little overly optimisitc with respect to the
MC205.  If the 205 is a 6, the Stingray is much worse than a 10.  I'd like to 
end up in at least the top 3-5.

	Our current boat is a bowrider, so I share your seasonal concerns, but
we are used to that.  Rough water- yeah we don't go out too often when the lake
chops up- certainly not to ski, and only occasionaly for recreation.  However,
the lake is busy, and we always have other wakes to contend with when we are 
skiing.  So in that respect, there's always 'rough' water.  I am concerned that
we may be giving up some comfort/recreational use of the boat in less than
optimum lake conditions.

	After comparing the '93s, we believe the storage/amenities are better
on the MC205, with the possible exception of a wide space for kneeboards.  The
CC dealer said one would fit under the Sport bow seats.  Looked like a tight fit
but maybe.

	The local dealer for the MC is a major plus in my mind.  Since we are
on a lake, I don't plan on doing too much towing, but in this category the
MC205 and Sport Nautique end up about the same.

Dave

Thanks for everyone's comments.  The weekend ended with an offer from Ray's
Marina that I could not refuse.  I will shortly be the proud owner of a '93
ProSport 205, with the optional 285hp engine.

To make a long story short- MacCallums' Boathouse had sold their '93 Natiques,
and I couldn't find !!! New England CC.  So I strolled up to Milton.  Ray got
into the negotiations and when he found out there were no other Mastercrafts
on my lake, he got hungry for advertising.  

Labor Day weekend will find these ole bones breaking in the new boat and 
sharpening the edges on my slalom (sorry, I used to compete 4 events on the 
high school WINTER ski team).

Thanks again all,
Dave

    Congrats on the new purchase. It's a nice boat, as were they all, and
    the 285 is a welcome option. If I could talk my father into upgrading
    his pontoon for one of 'dem fancy Mastercrafts I wouldn't have to worry
    about towing mine anymore.:^)
    
    Good luck.
    
    ~jeff

Yeah, congrats on the new addition to the family.  I'm sure you'll enjoy many
hours of relaxation and abuse in and behind her!

...Roger...

	Moved by Moderator
    	------------------
    
              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
================================================================================
Note 1106.0                         Ski Boats                         No replies
BUSY::CLEMENT "Smells like Nirvana"                  20 lines  30-AUG-1993 10:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am checking out a 19' 1989 American Skier boat.  It has a 351 v-8 inboard
with 120 hours.  Comes with a single axle trailer.

I know nothing about this type of boat and would like to hear some opinions
on it and its reliability, etc...

Anyone care to offer an opinion on the dollar value of this package?

Anything to watch out for?

Also, can I start the inboard engine and run it for a few seconds without
causing any damage to it?  I know that the rubber impellers will be damaged
if the engine heats up without cooling.  I assume it is fresh water cooled.

It is not possible to try this boat in the water (un-fortunately). Also it is
not possible to receive any information from the party selling it as it is a
repo place.  It is strictly sold "as-is".  The boat, engine, and trailer look
in really good shape.

Thanks, Mark

    re: Mark,

    	An American Skier is quite a nice tournament boat, although
    anyone sure if they are still in business, I'm not?

    	About running the boat w/o water. DON'T if you're actually
    thinking about buying it! All you need is a garden hose to safely
    run the boat. Merely remove the hose from the thru-hull fitting and
    stuff the garden hose into the intake hose with running water and
    you can safely run the motor w/o damage.

    	Unless the price is real cheap, I'd insist on a test drive. I
    don't know about any inherent problems with American Skiers, but
    of course, there was a time that I didn't know about any inherent
    problems with Ski Centurian Tru-Trac IIs either.

    	Also, while the AS is a very nice boat, it *is* a tournament
    ski boat and will handle and drive like a sports car, BUT it also
    is *NOT* built for rough water. So you need to take your boat
    usage into consideration.

    Good luck!

    Rick

Mark,

   Do heed all of what Rick suggested.  Definitely test drive it if at all
possible, or at least run it with a garden hose.  I wouldn't drop cash for it
without at *least* hearing it run.  What are they asking for it, or is it B.O.?

   As for price, I'd grab a copy of "Water Ski" magazine (or "The Water Skier"
if you subscribe to the AWSA) and check out the classifieds in the back.  You
should be able to locate an '89 American Skier (or close to it) and get an idea
how much people are asking for one.  I'd check through my recent copies for you,
but I'm heading out on vacation tomorrow so I won't be able to reply back for a
couple of weeks.  I'd imagine one of the other folks in here could look it up
for you if you don't have access to these publications.

...Roger...

    Thanks so far...
    
    There is no asking price.  It is a bid process followed by a telephone
    auction.  The high bid is presented to the bank who gives a "yes" or
    "no". If the bank says "no" the process starts all over again.
    
    This process probably deserves a topic in itself.
    
    There exists the "possibility" to get it way below value.  Although I
    have never done this before and don;t know of anyone who has paid very
    low $ thru this process.
    
    I am having some difficulty deciding if this boat is appropriate for my
    usage.  We like to take our current boat on the lake, swim off it, 
    tube, and hang out/picnic.  We would like to do some skiing but our
    current boat is on the small side.  It is a 14.5' Starcraft Runabout
    with a 40 hp OB.
    
    Now I can see doing all of the above with the AS, but I have to wonder
    about choppy conditions from both traffic and weather.  Would my number
    of uses perhaps be even further restricted becuase this boat may be to
    rough under these conditions.  The boating party is usually my wife and
    I and two kids 12 and 7.  It would be nice to have some visitors go out
    with us also.  And it would be nice to go out in the ocean.  Something
    I would not do with the AS.
    
    I like the simplicity of the inboard design over OB and IOs, basically
    a car engine, a clutch of sorts and a shaft.
    
    So at this point I am not sure if the AS is too specific an application
    and I would be best served by a more general boat.
    
    Thanks, Mark

    There's a used '89' AS advertised in The Water Skier magazine for
    $11,900.  The add claims it's in excellent condition.
    
    Just a point of reference,
    
    Steve

    
    Was that AS a 19'?  I found a couple of AS ads but none mentioned the
    length of the boat, prices were in the $12,000 to $15,000 range.
                                       
    Let me ask this, what is an average comprable powered (351 V8) and
    sized (19') 1989 ski boat with 120 hours worth, running and in good
    condition?   I would think around $10,000.   What do others think?
    
    At what price would one consider the AS a "bargain", $8000,
    $6000, $4000, ???
    
    Thanks, Mark

    The add referenced in .72 is for an 1989 Advance, 351 Indmar, cover and
    boom.  There are also 2 "1988"s listed at $11,500 and $9,500.
    
    I would say 8K would be a price worth a little risk if the boat appears
    to be in good condition.
    
    /Steve