Conference vicki::boats

>Seeing how I've never tricked in my life (really)...I was 
>wondering if there are any experienced trickers out there?

	That could be taken out of context :')

>How do you get out of the water with them?  Same way as two skis?

	Yes .... sort of.  You have no fin so you have to fight to keep your
	ski's together.  Also you DO NOT go as fast as when you slalom or
	regular ski, you go slow (@20-22 MPH).  

>What should I attempt first?  I know, just staying up, right!

	I know this sounds simplistic .... try crossing the wake back and forth
	a few times.  It's harder than you might think because you don't want
	to get too much momentum going to the side as your ski's will come out
	from under you.

	The 1st 'trick' everybody tries is to ski backwards.  Once you get 
	that down a 360 is next on the list.  You'll need a trick harness for
	toe holds.  

	To ski backwards you stay just outside of the wake with your 'power'
	hand to the inside (I'm a righty).  What I do is hold the handle down
	as close to my right hip/waist as I can get it and then give it a 
	little tug to pull up a few feet.  As I'm doing that I rotate to the
	outside and grab the handle with my left hand holding the backwards
	position.  To come around all the way ( a 360) you just keep rotating
	using the left hand and releasing the right.

>There is a rear toe on one of them for slalom tricking.  

	I have never 'tricked' with one ski but some people say it's easier
	than two !  I have my doubts.


	Chuck

    Jeanne,
         Getting out of the water is the least of your worries, it's
    easy, same as two skis.  But once you are up you need to get into
    and stay in perfect position or these things are very slippery.
    The position:  Knees bent as far forward as you can possibly get
    them.  Weight on the balls of your feet.  Back straight.  Head up,
    NEVER look down.  If you look down that's where you're gonna go.
    Keep the handle low, down about the waist, and a little closer
    to your body than normal.
    
         Don't try any tricks until you get this position perfect.
    You won't be consistent.  Sometimes you'll hit the trick,  some-
    times you'll crash.  For example when you try to learn the 180
    front to back.  If you straighten your legs you WILL fall on your
    A**.  If you bend over and/or look down you will fall on your face.
    So just spend a lot of time skiing around in the perfect position,
    crossing the wakes and whatnot.  It will be worth the time spent
    because later your tricks will come easier.
    
    Good Luck
    
    Rob
    

Great!  Thats just the kind of information I was looking for.

Thanks very much, I have all next week to practice these things.
Head up, knees bent, weight on balls of feet.....I'll start there
and work on the spins later.

Jeanne

    Well, if you *really* want to know how to do it, I have some pictures
    of Roger "Ski Nautique" snorting several hundred gallons of water
    back when he was trying to learn a backward start on tricks...
    
    ...tom ("the man with the negatives")
    
    (I *Never* let roger take a camera when *I'm* skiing..)

    RE: .-1
    
    Oh no, not the backwards start pictures!  Looks like I gotta get
    a portable X-ray machine and bombard your house with a lethal dose
    when the wife and kid aren't home... :-)
    
    					...Roger...

    Of course, it's a good thing Roger doesn't have any pix of me just
    getting up on skis... amazing there was any water left for him to
    snort...
    
    We now resume our regularly scheeduled trick-skiing note.

    ...tek

    
    Re: -1
    
    Ha!  I think you should scan those negatives and put them on the
    system so we can ALL SEE what Roger looks like.  It can be done!
    (How much ya willing to pay to get them back, Rog?!)   :>)
    
    I've yet to try a backwards deep water start on the tricks, I'm
    still trying to ski backwards with both hands on the handle.  I
    can ski backwards with one hand, but haven't been able to find
    the handle with the other hand.  Anyhow, its a lot of fun even
    if I do dump everytime, but hey, I can ski sideways noooo problem!
    
    Jeanne
    

	Finally got a chance to do some trickin' this past weekend (I think
	Pat inspired me).  (In my best Andy Rooney voice..... ) "Didya ever
	do something by accident and then say "hey ! that was fun ! I'll try
	to do it this time", and ya never do it again 'coz your TRYIN' "
	Well ... I did this 'trick' on my tricksters and then completely
	wore myself out tryin' to duplicate it the rest of the day.  What I
	did was in attempting to do a 360 I came around and not only completed
	the 360 but WENT RIGHT AROUND AGAIN WITHOUT STOPPING !  In about 20 
	or so subsequent attempts at this 'double 360' I did about 20 
	variations of a Greg Louganis dive.  To make matters worse, when I
	came in after doing the thing by accident the 1st time, I excitedly
	asked my spotter if he saw what I did and he just said 'nah, I was
	checking out the blonde sunbathing on the raft over there'. 
	Gee thanks,  I'll call you when I'm drowning.


	Chuck    

    
    I believe you, Chuck! :)  Hey you know you did it, what does it
    matter if no one saw you achieve such a maneuver?   Whats that
    worth, 24,000 points?? 
    
    Andy Rooney....the only thing funnier than his commentaries are
    his EYEBROWS!  I bet Brooke Shields is jealous.
                                          
    Jeanne
    
    
    

    This past weekend I was finally able to master the front-to-back,
    360 and backwards ski.  Now I'm wondering what to attempt next,
    maybe an aerial 360....?
    
    Has anyone done this?  I would assume you bring the rope behind
    you and position the handle at your hip?  Any suggestions would
    be appreciated.
    
    Jeanne
    

    Jeanne...
    
    As I'm sure you've seen on ESPN the trick runs are done with a single
    ski.  You don't see too many two ski trick maneuvers.  But I think
    there are a few crazy things left for you to try on two before going
    to one ski.
    
    One thing I guess you could try is a step-over.  I've never done
    it, but I think the way you do it is while you're skiing in a particular
    orientation, you bend down and put the rope near the water, then
    as you pop up to do a 180 turn (say front to back) you step over
    the rope with one ski.  As an example, you're skiing forward, you
    bring the rope down and begin turning to your left, pivoting on
    your left ski and stepping over the rope with your right ski.  Seems
    logical to me.  I STRONGLY recommend using a trick release for this
    maneuver.  It sounds like you could get tangled up pretty easily.
    And yes, I did consider the fact that you end up skiing with the
    rope between your legs.  I guess then you have two ways out (at
    least two which keep you on the skis :-) ) ... do a back to front
    step-over or release the handle with one hand, grab it behind your
    back with the free hand, then do the same for the other hand and
    voila...you're skiing backwards in "normal" position.
    
    Another thing is the backwards deep water start.  That one I can
    do (or at least used to be able to do).  I first learned this by
    putting my hands between my legs and grabbing the rope behind my
    knees.  I later figured out that this is unnecessary.  You start
    with the rope behind your knees but grab the rope around the knees,
    not between them.  Tell the driver to "Hit it!" when your head goes
    under.  What you do is kick the tails of the skis up when you dunk
    your head.  Don't forget to exhale rapidly or you'll have the lake
    up your nose very quickly.  Stay crouched until you're up on plane
    and "ta da!" you're skiing backwards.  It looks really impressive
    from the boat or shore.
    
    Aerial 360s are another one too.  I can do them on a kneeboard.
    Haven't tried one on tricks yet.  Wrapping the rope around your
    waist seems like the logical method.  Gotta try that one...
    
    Are you bringing your tricks to the gumball today?  Maybe I'll get
    inspired to try a few things myself...  God help me!  :-)
    
    					...Roger...

    
    Yes, I wanted to try the backwards deep water start....thanks for
    the specs! 
    
    I'll have the tricks with me today for the gumball and my camera,
    so ham it up!
    
    Jeanne
     

    I've ordered a harness to try a new dimension in tricking, this
    should be an experience, hopefully the harness will let go during
    the fall and I won't be dragged under water by one foot (for some
    reason I keep visualizing this happening)
    
    If anyone uses a harness, your comments would be appreciated.
    
    Thanx
    Jeanne
    

    
    Jeanne,
    
    Do you use a ski pylon or do you tie off the back of your boat?
    
    I would be leary of using a harness if you tie off the back.  The
    problem is not so much being dragged under water as much as the
    angle that your leg can be pulled at when you fall.
    
    I have seen two methods used during tricking with a harness:
    
    1.  A "trick release" is attached to the pylon,  a pin is pulled
    by the spotter in the boat which releases the line when the skier
    is "going" down; ie:you release the line before they hit the water
    and the line yanks their leg.
    
    2.  Have the spotter wrap the line once around the pylon and hold
    it with their hands,  the pull really is not that bad for basic
    trick skiing.  Then the spotter just lets go when the skier is going
    down.  This is not as good as the first method since there is some
    resistance as the rope unwraps.
    
    Good Luck
    
    Mike Smith
    
    

    
    Yes Mike, I tie off the back of the boat.  I did see the trick
    release advertised in Overton's catalog.  Right next to the ads
    for the harness's which state "designed to slip off easily should
    you fall"....the ad for the release said "helpful aid for tricking
    to avoid injury should you fall"....
    
    Somewhat contradictory I thought.
    
    But I'll give it a shot, the season's almost over anyhow :>)  It
    will put a little pressure on me not to fall.  "Fall and you die!"
    
    Jeanne
    

    I wouldn't risk it myself Jeanne.  Knees aren't built very
    well to start with and even harder to repair.  Better to 
    find some way to release than chance your foot getting stuck.
    
    Rob
    

    
    Yes, I decided to forget about the harness till' next year.  Instead,
    I had the slalom toe mounted on the trick.
    
    Well, its' not easy.  I'm a goofy footer (right foot forward), as
    soon as I'm able to place my foot in the back, I lose it.  Five times
    I've fallen, consistently to the left.  If I put any weight on the
    back toe, thats' when the ski kicks out from under me.  Its the
    weird angle of the toe piece, 45 degrees, that makes it hard to
    control.
              
    Jeanne 
    

    
       Well, here we are, 1989....the year of the goofy footer!
    
    Do we have any slalomn trickers out there?  I have a bad
    case of "cheap trick fever"...thats' what I'm thinking my
    tricks are...cheap.. because they don't have any tracks on
    the underside of the ski.
    
    I don't know if I'm ready for a new slalomn trick yet, but
    I'm wondering if S.T. is easier with a tracking ski.
    
    After dropping one of the tricks (I tell the driver to increase
    the boat speed first), its somewhat of a struggle to keep
    the ski under control.  I think with practice it'll come,
    but the ski decided it was going to cross the wake and I
    had no choice but to follow!  I'm sure my weight was a
    deciding factor on where that ski was headed!
    
    As for new two ski tricks, has anyone tried this?  Get into
    the reverse position on the outside of the wake and then 
    cross the wakes over to the other side....lots of fun
    behind a Nautique/M.C.  Once you're able to cross the
    wakes in reverse the next trick is to take air and come
    about in a forward position.  
    
      Cheap Trick Fever!
    
    jd/
    

>    Do we have any slalomn trickers out there?  I have a bad
>    case of "cheap trick fever"...thats' what I'm thinking my
>    tricks are...cheap.. because they don't have any tracks on
>    the underside of the ski.
 
	The only time I tried slalom trickin' was when I UNINTENTIONALLY
	dropped a ski !  Actually it was kinda fun but like you said you've
	got an automatic tendendy to go to the wake and there's just no
	simple way of stopping that motion.
   
>    As for new two ski tricks, has anyone tried this?  Get into
>    the reverse position on the outside of the wake and then 
>    cross the wakes over to the other side....lots of fun
>    behind a Nautique/M.C.  Once you're able to cross the
>    wakes in reverse the next trick is to take air and come
>    about in a forward position.  
 
	One of the things I've been wondering about is the necessity of
	a safety release.  My boat doesn't have one so I don't attempt any
	tricks involving the feet.  How's about you ?

	Chuck    

    
    Chucks.....
    
        I haven't managed a toe-hold manuever yet, but when I
    do there will be a trick-release of some sort rigged up.
    The trick harness may or maynot come off during a fall,
    I wouldn't want to pay the consequences....which could be
    a nasty yank.  
    
        From what I've read about slalom tricking, your weight
    has to be over the ball of your foot and bent knees are a
    must.  When the ski took me over the wake, I was able to
    prevent a fall by taking the back foot out of the toe, and
    using my foot as a rudder.  
    
        Having your feet in the slalomn trick position feels
    very weird, its going to take some getting used to.  
    
    Jeanne
    

    Jeanne,
    
    Now that the snow is flying and the turkeys are hiding,how was your
    1991 season as far as tricking is concerned? Has everyone become
    frustrated with tricks,the last note was written back in '89. 
    Tricking isn't a real popular event out here in Colorado and I 
    assume it's the same out there since neithor of us get the large
    doses of quality-warm water time that is required to become 
    proficient on tricks. 
    
    ski ya later,
    
    Matt-rix

Matt-rix,
    
This season I focused mostly on slalomn skiing.
My 91' season was spent breaking in my new Connelly
HP slalomn.  I did manage a trick lesson at ski school in the spring,
we worked on side slides and front-to-backs on the single 
trick.  It's just practice, practice, practice with tricks.

Learning new tricks means spending *lots* of time on
the water (and in it), and there wasn't enough time or 
engergy left after slalomn skiing to practice tricking.  
I think I took five trick runs over the summer, thats pretty bad
now that I think of it!

My outboard just can't cut it either, for tricking, it
can't hold steady at 18/20MPH without the driver thrashing
the throttle.  Excuses!  Excuses!  My best trick runs
have always been behind a tournament boat with a good
driver!    

Leo B. in this notes file is a superb tricker,
he does wake 360's in the toe-hold as well as front-to-
backs and back to fronts.  I fell down on dry land
with my foot in that contraption.  :>)   

    Jeanne
    

    JEANNE,
    
    Luckily,last season I worked 2nd shift which allowed me to ski in the
    mornings,and I skiied nearly every day but,I too found it hard to leave
    the Concept in the bag and jump on the trick. The course and chasing
    those buoys is just too addicting compared to swimming lessons that
    you get when you trick. The time I spent started paying off though
    and I found myself excited to get back out there once I started putting
    high point runs together. Compared to slalom,tricking requires so 
    much more practice and patience. Thanks for writing back,I was
    interested in your progress. 
    
    btw.  How do you like your HP? Is it a signature series? And if it
    is,have you experimented with the adj. fin? Out here the Concept is the
    rage. Out of 34 club members, 14 are on the Concept,and 4 are on the
    HP. 
    
    later,
    
    
    Matt

Re: -1  
    
  >>  How do you like your HP? Is it a signature series? And if it
  >>  is,have you experimented with the adj. fin? Out here the Concept is the
  >>  rage. Out of 34 club members, 14 are on the Concept,and 4 are on the
  >>  HP. 
    
    
I like the HP, it's incredibly fast.  Yes, it is part of the 
signature series, I bought this ski new in 91.  I haven't
experimented with  the  fin, but would like change the
angle so it would help me slow down the ski coming into
the pre-turn.  

Like I said, this ski is fast.  A couple of my friends
tried it out, one skis on an HO Mach I, the other, a top
of the line Kidder, and they both said the same thing...
the ski is too fast!  The few times I was able to get on 
the course this summer, I noticed the ski helped me make up 
for lost time.        

The HP is very stable through the wakes, and I haven't had
too many experiences with over-turning the ski.  Have
any of your club members explained what makes the HP different
from the Concept.  Sounds like you belong to a Colorado Connelly
Club!

Jeanne

p.s.  and send some of that snow to New England, we need
      some snow to ski on to help get us throught the winter!

    Jeanne,
    
    I have rode the HP before,I spent about a month on it and liked it up
    to about 28 off,but like you mentioned "I have never overturned it",I
    couldn't make it turn tight enough. Have you ever watched Mike
    kjellander's off side turn?? He loses a lot of time over there,on his
    good side he literally throws the ski around the buoy by slamming his
    body into the water and pivots on his body. The ski just does'nt finish
    it's turn tight enough.
    
    The HP is more stable,and faster than the Concept but most of the
    skiers who were on the HP ;have moved to the Concept because it turns
    so 
    tightly and helps ;you set up with great angle through the
    wakes,deceleration is another big plus with the Concept.
    
    More later,

    Jeanne,
    
    To help your HP decelerate more effectivelly, take  about 1/32 of an
    inch from the depth of the blade in the front only. That will put more
    pressure on the front of the ski and aid in decelerating. Only go a
    little at a time,you'll notice a lot of changes when you start changing
    the fin. You'll know when you'vwe gone too far as lyuou will find
    yourself breaking at the waist as you approach and round the  ball.
    
    sending snow your way,
    
    Mattrix,future Rocket Pilot
    

  >>  couldn't make it turn tight enough. Have you ever watched Mike
  >>  kjellander's off side turn?? He loses a lot of time over there,on his
  >>  good side he literally throws the ski around the buoy by slamming his
  >>  body into the water and pivots on his body. The ski just doesn't finish
  >>  it's turn tight enough.
    
    Really...all this time I thought Mike was slam-dunking on his
good side.  I've got a Mike Kjellander poster in my office, "In
Your Face"....and now I can see that indeed he is in the water
on his off-side, doubt he'll ever blame this on the ski though!

At my level of skiing, the ski turns tight enough!  Thanks for
the tip on de-acceleration, it's something I've wanted to 
experiment with.

Jeanne

p.s.  Got the snow, but we need more!  Much much more.

    Connelly has discontinued the HP for '92. Look for Mike to be piloting
    the new Rocket.  The Rocket is basically a Concept with a much stiffer
    forebody and midsection. The tail however has more rocker and is softer
    than ;the Concept. They have done everything that I wanted to see done
    to the Concept to make a better performing ski at the shorter line
    lengths of 32 off-35 off and beyond. I fractured internal fibers on my
    concept at 35 off. I felt like the factory Concept was just too soft
    for short line lengths,and I was right. You'll see me on a Rocket next
    season. 
    
     We are getting off the subject that is supposed to be discussed in
    this section,aught to move to slalom. 
    
     ski ya later,
    
    Matt

    
    Matt,
    
    Please go to note 714.  I have some questions.
    
    Jeanne
    

  Just thought I'd resurrect a dead note...

  I bought a pair of O'brien Pro-Trac Tricks for the wife last week and we got 
to try them out over the weekend (boy are they slippery).  My wife took them
for a ride first and had no problem getting up and skiing on them.  I tried to
coax her into going sideways or spinning, but she wouldn't.  She seemed to be 
content on just skiing on them for the time being, to get used to them and had
no problems with wake crossings.
  It was my turn next, and also had no problem getting up and skiing on them.
My first thought was they felt like *VERY* dull ice skates the way they were
sliding around.  So now I thought I'd try something; A little sideslide to the
left, then a little sideslide to the right, (well o.k., they were only 45�
sideslides each way, but I wasn't facing forward) then a snowplow... I had no
desire to go backwards, and I had enough so I tossed the handle.
  When she brought the boat back around, she asked what I wanted to do, so I 
tossed one of the skis into the boat and told her I was gonna do one. These
are premounted with rear slalom toe rubber; one is set up for a left-foot-
forward, and the other is set up for a right-foot-forward (we can go double!).
  I had no problem getting up on one, although more throttle would've been
nice (blub, blub), and actually started to enjoy myself. The response of the
slalom trick seemed much better than the pair; you know, one less thing to 
worry about.  I was getting real confident "slaloming" inside the wake, and 
even asked for more speed.  Then decided, time for some wake crossing, at 
which point took my first (and shortly after my second) fall of the year.
  Ooops, guess I leaned a little too much and the ski slid out from under me.
Got up again, and the same thing happened again.  A *real* slalom ski, this
thing ain't...  So I got back into the boat (my wife is in hysterics), and
said "I'm done..I have a two-fall limit".
  All in all, it was a good experience...She really likes them; I'll stick
to my *real* slalom ski.

Doug

Doug,

Glad to hear you two are getting into tricking.  Tell Trish
to stick with em', they take time and you do need to push 
yourself a little into trying a new trick, but all in all, 
they're safe fun.  

When my first pair of tricks arrived in the mail a few years
back, I remember first trying the side slide, (recommended
learning pattern), and after feeling comfortable with that,
I tried reverse skiing.  I figured worse scenerio was that
I'd fall.  And I did.  But, even though I dumped first try,
I was able to experience what it felt like going backwards
and within two or three tries that trick was learned.  From
there it's front to back's, back to fronts and 360's, wake
fronts and wake backs.  And who was that guy who did a
backwards deep-water start on the tricks?!  :>)  

The first thing to practice on tricks is wake crossings, just 
ride the tricks and get comfortable on them.  

Suggestion on the side slide for Trish, tell her to keep
the handle in close to her body, remain upright with knees
bent and try to pivot on her vertical axis.  No breaking
at the waist!  If she wants to turn to the right, she
can take her right hand off the handle and hold on with
her left hand only, again, she needs to keep the handle
in close and down by her waist.  

Slalom tricking is wicked!  I've never gotten past a side
slide on the slalom, but then, I've put the tricks aside to
concentrate on the *real* stuff, slalom skiing on the
slalom course. :O) If you want to improve on tricks you've
got to commit the rest of your life to it!  :>)  

I noticed an interesting pattern with ice-skating and tricking,
both require you stay upright on your vertical axis.  At the rink
this past winter, I used my tricking skills to help me
learn new figure-skating manuevers.  And trick skiing is
also recommended to barefooters for cross-training.

I'm glad to hear of another woman tricker out there, tricks
arn't just for kids!

Jeanne
                    

  

Hey Doug, forget all that work on those short skis.  Try coming up backwards on
a pair of jump skis!!!!  Somewhat easier, great fun, just remember to not get
"stuck" in the crouched position.  Very strange when you're riding on the water
with the handle tucked neatly behind your knees, but the forces that are keeping
you planing on the water are also preventing you from standing up!  I remember
being in this position, looking over at my buddy (you remember Kyle?), he's
laughing hysterically, and I'm yelling, "Now what the $#%@ do I do?"  Too funny,
but lots of fun.

It's much nicer when you come up correctly, i.e. smoothly transition from the
crouch to the standing position before the boat reaches planing speed.

...Roger... who's_boat_is_currently_on_the_trailer_due_to_no_water_in_the_lake  
            :-(