Conference 7.286::space

    This sounds pretty odd.  I wonder what they do if the gondola is
    headed for a mountain at 50 kph.  (Answer:  nothing...by the time
    they notice, it has already crashed into it!)
    
    Burns
    

    	Perhaps it will be equipped software-wise so that such obstacles
    will alert the computer to release some of the gas in the balloon,
    or perhaps it will have a motor so that it is more like a dirigible
    and can control its flight path - or maybe they will launch a number
    of them (say a dozen or so), so that if one goes, the others will
    bakc it up.  They may design a system so it can be done cheaply,
    thereby allowing more than one system (That's what I don't like
    about GALILEO - there is only one ship being sent to explore Jupiter;
    but that's another story, although Jupiter would be great to explore
    by an automated dirigible probe).
    
    	Larry
    

Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle
Path: decwrl!hplabs!sri-unix!husc6!linus!utzoo!henry
Subject: space news from Feb 23 AW&ST
Posted: 9 May 87 23:20:50 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Xref: decwrl sci.space:1411 sci.space.shuttle:164
  
    Soviets move their Mars-balloon mission up from 1994 to 1992, and
revise the plan to eliminate the add-on asteroid mission in favor of
doing more at Mars. 
 

    I read that the crew of the first Apollo mission to land on the
    moon gave a crew patch to NASA for the first crew to land on Mars.
    They are urging a program to land astronauts on Mars within 18 years.
    (Note: they landed on the moon 18 years ago.)  NASA apparently still
    favors a Lunar base first.
    
    						Mike

    	After most of the things I have heard, I think a lunar base
    WOULD be the best thing to do next; this will give us easier practice
    for going to Mars, which I also think we should do, but let's walk
    first before we run.
    
    	Larry
    

The right path, in the right order:
	1) reliable transport to LEO
	2) LEO space station (100 miles up will do, 600 miles up is better)
	3) moon shuttle, lunar orbit space station (not L5, but in orbit
		around the moon)
	4) lunar base
	5) asteroids
	6) then Mars

Stay out of those gravity wells, even the one at the moon, as long as you can.
There will be things on the lunar surface we need, like shelter from
solar flares, and oxygen, construction materials, and water (if we're lucky).

See Ben Bova's guest editorial in the current (cover date Sept(?) '87) Analog
"Vote NO on Mars" for more reasons to delay a trip to Mars.

- tom]

    yes, .-1 would be the right way , but.....
    The history of American space exploration would indicate
    that we will more than likely go to Mars after we
    have the Space Station up. We're a leaps-and-bounds
    type of space exploring nation rather than a "progressive"
    exploring nation.
    
    This is not meant to sound negative; its just my observation.
    
    Personally, I do not believe that we will be progressing
    very far or very quickly in space regardless of what type
    of administration comes about in the future (i.e. next 20-30 years,
    although it would be nice if I were wrong)
    
    I think the "bonanza" of space venture, commercialization, and
    habitation is a little farther off than most people here believe.
    This doesn't mean its out of our reach because its not.
    I believe that progress in this area should be slow and consistent.
    Pessimistic? Maybe. I'm happy to see any little progress.
    Leaps and bounds are for future generations.
    
    I hope I'll be proven wrong by future events.....
    
    

From: [email protected] (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Space news from December 21 AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY 
Date: 2 Feb 88 04:43:02 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
  
       USSR proposes that US Mars Observer, to launch in 1992, be
   modified to act as a relay satellite for data from the Soviet/French
   balloon probes.  This would considerably increase the number of images
   that could be returned, by adding another relay satellite (the Soviet
   orbiters not being able to provide 100% coverage).  Mars Observer will
   be finishing its primary mission at about the time the balloons
   arrive.  It would need a receiver for the balloons' signals, but
   otherwise there is little cost involved.  White House and NASA seem to
   be taking the idea quite seriously. 
 
       Soviets are planning a radarsat mission to Mars to fill the hole
   between the Phobos missions (launch 1988) and the balloon missions
   (launch 1994).  Radar imaging would add information about surface
   composition and the possible presence of water. 
 
Those who do not understand Unix are |  Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
condemned to reinvent it, poorly.    | {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,utai}!utzoo!henry

From: [email protected] (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Space news from February 29 AW&ST
Date: 29 Mar 88 05:37:42 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
 
    USSR is considering expanding its 1994 Mars balloon/rover missions
to include small return vehicles coming back to Earth from Mars orbit,
as a rehearsal for a later sample-return mission.  The return vehicles
also would bring back high-resolution film from orbiter cameras, as a
supplement to radio image transmission.  Other additions being thought
about are a 110-lb subsatellite for gravity measurements, ten small
weather transmitters to be dropped on the surface, a pair of
penetrators for subsurface science, and a 1m-resolution camera system
for the orbiters.  All of this, including the return vehicles, is
contingent on a decision to use aerobraking for Mars-orbit insertion,
which would greatly boost the payload of the missions. 
                                                                 
    USSR is also thinking about missions further afield.  CORONA,
possible for 1995 launch, would do a Jupiter flyby to get within 5
million km of the Sun.  Also being looked at is a Titan probe mission,
including a surface probe and a balloon, possibly for 1999. 
 
    NASA would like to get both CRAF and CASSINI (Saturn orbiter,
Titan probe) into FY90 budget, on the grounds that they use similar
spacecraft and doing them together would save money.  [Don't hold your 
breath. - HS] 
 
"Noalias must go.  This is           |  Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
non-negotiable."  - DMR              | {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,utai}!utzoo!henry

    Mars 1994  from the Soviet Space Programs 1981-87
    101st Congress Committee report part 2
    
    The balloon woul dhave a active lifetime of 15-50 days covering
    100-400 km per day.   Suggested experiments included:
    a panoramic TV camera with one millimeter resolution,
    a 0.1 meter resolution TV camera fro surveying from an altitude 
    200 meters, a metorological package, a photometer, and instruments for
    electromagnetic sounding of the subsurface layer; studies of alpha
    backscattering and x-ray or gamma ray spectrometer; and differential
    temperature analysis and analysis of volatiles.
    
    There woud be "several" penetrators with a lifetime of 1-4 years and
    including a seismometer, instruments for soil composition analysis and
    thermal flux measurements, and a meteorological package.
    
    Th mission is referred to as simply as "the 1994 Mars Mission".  The
    mission would involve the use of French balloons similar to those used
    on the VEGA probes....
    
    The Soviets are proposing a another way.... a kite-mounded camera
    raising in tens of hundreds of meters into the air, called the SKYLIFT.
    A balloon or a system to pop micorcameras into the air are also being
    studied as alternates.  Tarnopolsky conceded that the SKYLIFT idea was
    "close to science fiction" in terms of it novelty.
    
    Another proposal that alos sounds like science fiction was discribed by
    Dr. Nikolay Umnov in 1987 called a 'HEXAPOD" it is a walking rover that
    could travel at speed of 80-100 kilometer per hour .  Studies of
    insects, including the cockroach are the most stable of insects led to
    the choise of six legs for the HEXAPOD.
    

re< Note 288.10 by PARITY::BIRO >

>    Another proposal that alos sounds like science fiction was discribed by
>    Dr. Nikolay Umnov in 1987 called a 'HEXAPOD" it is a walking rover that
>    could travel at speed of 80-100 kilometer per hour .  Studies of
>    insects, including the cockroach are the most stable of insects led to
>    the choise of six legs for the HEXAPOD.

Does this mean that the sov's have, or think they can have by 1994, an 
autonomus six legged rover that goes 80-100 killomerers per HOUR?  Or is 
it per day?

Tony

    re:11
    The prototype unit is working at 10 centimeters a second, bu tthe
    operational vehicle is design for 80-100 KM/hr, using pneumatic motors.
    The prototype is being tested at the Machine Enigineering Insttitue of
    the Soviet Academy of Sciences, it is a meter and a half long with six
    metal legs and it can step over obstacles like rocks...
    
    jb
    

This would be interesting to find more about the computers used. I've talked to
some of the people at MIT about robotic vision and there's a lot of CPU involved
in depth and edge detection and at the speeds you're talking, it'll be stepping
quite quickly. I know I wouldn't want to stub my toe at 80+ KPH several million
miles from the nearest "doctor".

    re .12
    
    I do know that at CMU, there was research being done one a VW sized
    hexapod walker, but it was designed to be piloted. I forget the
    speeds it was designed for (30mph?=50kph). The driver would point
    it; the computer worked on placement of the legs. 
    
    I'd suppose a cluster of microVaxes could handle it (one or two
    to process the video data, more to pilot based on that). In the
    event of a real problem, it could always just stop and send a picture
    to earth and request instructions.
    
    Heck, I'd settle for something covering 10-20 KM/hr.
    
    					-**Ted**-
    

    re. - several
    
      I suspect that must have been a misprint for 8-10 kph., if not
    even 0.8-1kph. This sounds much more reasonable and practical for an 
    automatic vehicle operating on an unknown surface a *VERY* long way
    from home. Especially if the prototype is travelling at 10cm/sec =
    0.36kph. The speed quoted would make it considerably faster than a
    galloping horse, and inevitably produce a somewhat rough ride. Even with
    intelligent real-time direction, travelling at that pace over unknown
    ground would be likely to result in a fall, probably  sooner rather
    than later. To say nothing of the mechanical stresses, and the greatly 
    increased fuel requirement. I doubt very much that solar cells,
    presumably the intended power source, could cope; it is difficult
    to get that much speed out of a solar powered wheeled vehicle, running
    on a good surface.
    
    Ken
    

    Since this is the Mars Ballon note, I'll reply to 276.52 (John Sauter),
    here.
    
     I wonder what the weight difference there would be between a
    transmitter and power supply that can transmit to Martian orbit,
    vs one that transmits to earth directly? If the weight differential
    is significant, I'd rather see more instrumentation rather than
    gagetry to transmit directly to earth. 
    
    Gregg

    I wonder too, but I suspect the difference isn't very large.  Remember
    that an Earth-based receiver hasn't any weight limits, whereas a
    receiver that orbits Mars does.  An Earth-based receiver can therefore
    be much more sensitive than one which orbits Mars, making the
    transmitter smaller.
    
    There's also the reliability concern.  You would like the lander to
    remain useful even if the orbiter fails.
        John Sauter

Note that the Viking landers had steerable dishes to contact Earth directly.
I doubt that you could get the degree of accuracy in steering required when
the lander is hanging from a balloon.  Betcha they have only omni's.

Burns

    	The balloons that the Soviet VEGAs dropped into the Venusian
    atmosphere in 1985 used omni directional antennae to transmit their
    data directly back to Earth. Of course the problem with using omni
    directional antennae is that unless you use a powerful transmitter
    (which would weigh a lot) or a very large receiving station (which
    cost a lot of money), the data transmission rates are VERY low. 
    Photos contain an ENORMOUS number of bits and a system like that
    used on the VEGA balloons (which at best transmitted only a few
    bits per second) would require hours or even days to transmit one
    photo.
    	The Soviets are fully aware of this and plan to use a transmission
    system similar to what was used on VIKING. A low power, omni
    directional transmitter would continuously transmit simple
    meteorological and engineering data directly back to Earth. Stations
    on the Earth would also use these transmissions (via interferometry)
    to track the position of the balloons much as they did with VEGA.
    The balloons would take photos periodicly and store them until an
    orbiting spacecraft was in the proper position. At that time, the
    balloons would transmit the photos and other data to the spacecraft
    which in turn would transmit it to the Earth. According to current
    plans, two Soviet mother craft would perform these duties and there
    is a good possibility that the upcoming MARS OBSERVER spacecraft
    would also be equipped with a reciever to perform the same function
    (based on the out come of the PHOBOS mission, that would probably
    be a good idea).
    
    				Drew
     
                                                                       

Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
Subject: Soviet Mars Mini-Rover
Date: 20 Jun 90 16:39:54 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Ron Baalke)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA.
 
                            Soviet Mars Mini-Rover
                               June 20, 1990
 
     The Soviet Union has announced a shift of strategy in the Soviet
Union's Mars '94 mission, a change that could mean addition of a
mini-rover on the robotic project.  A decision by the Soviet Space
Research Institute would decide this September whether or not to
include a mini-rover on the mission. 
 
     The current Mars '94 mission plan is to launch two spacecraft
aboard a Proton launcher in October 1994, with each spacecraft
carrying an orbiter and a balloon-borne science platform, portions of
which would be provided by the French.  The mini-rover could be added
to one of the balloon stages.  The mini-rover is still unofficial and
expected to cost nearly $14 million, the major impediment is to be
funding. 

       _   _____    _
      | | |  __ \  | |       Ron Baalke           |  [email protected]
      | | | |__) | | |       Jet Propulsion Lab   |  [email protected]
   ___| | |  ___/  | |___    M/S 301-355          |
  |_____/ |_|      |_____|   Pasadena, CA 91109   |

    APn  09/28/1990 0612  Mars Balloon
 
    By LEE SIEGEL
    AP Science Writer

   LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Giant balloons, built by the French to hop
slowly across Mars' surface during a Soviet space mission, are
undergoing field tests in California's Mojave Desert. 

   The six-day series of low-altitude tests being conducted by French,
Soviet and U.S. engineers started Thursday over dry lakebeds, lava and
boulder fields and sand dunes near Barstow and Desert Center. 

   Tests were scheduled today on lava fields about 40 miles southeast
of Barstow, after the successful half-mile test Thursday on flat
Coyote Dry Lake. 

   "It's a test of the system to see if it works over Marslike
terrain," said Harris Schurmeier, retired associate director of the
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and Mars Balloon project manager for
The Planetary Society. 

   The delicate balloon was intentionally destroyed after the test.
The French brought about 10 balloons for the test flights, Schurmeier said. 

   The 30-foot-tall, 10-foot-wide cylindrical balloons will be aboard
two spacecraft the Soviets plan to launch into orbit around Mars in a
1994 mission, Schurmeier said. 

   Each orbiter will deploy an entry capsule, which will parachute
toward the red planet, the fourth from the sun. Before landing, each
capsule will deploy a balloon. 

   "The results are very good," said Christian Tarrieu, Mars Balloon
project manager for the National Center for Space Studies in France. 

   The transparent, mylar balloons are designed to explore a large
area of Mars without having to negotiate difficult terrain. The
balloons are filled with helium and nitrogen, so they act as both gas
and hot-air balloons. 

   "During the day, the sun heats up gas in the balloon and the whole
thing lifts off the ground," Schurmeier said. "Then the winds blow it
around. When it cools at night, it goes back toward the ground." 

   He said the French and Soviets hope the balloons will operate for
10 days -- the life of the batteries they will carry -- covering a
distance of 600 to 900 miles. 

   A gondola hanging beneath each balloon probably will carry a
television camera and instruments to measure atmospheric temperature,
humidity and clarity, Schurmeier said. 
 

    Does this actually work?  It would seem to me that the Martian
    atmosphere is too thin to support much of a balloon.  According to the
    encyclopedia,  the Martian atmosphere has a pressure of about 8
    millibars at 200 degrees K and is almost all CO2 (molecular weight =
    44), versus the Earth's atmosphere of 1 bar, 290K and a molecular
    weight of about 29.  Put it together and you scale from the Earth's
    density of 1.23 kg/m^3 down to a Martian density of 0.017 kg/m^3,
    almost a hundred times less.  
    
    Say that the balloon is filled with helium (molecular weight = 4).  Its
    density at Martian pressures and temps would be 0.0016 kg/m^3.  The
    lifting capacity of a balloon is the difference in densities times the 
    volume.  For a 30' x 10' cylindrical balloon like the one described,
    the lifting capacity would be 65 m^3 * (0.017 - 0.0016 kg/m^3) = 1 kg.
    The total mass of the balloon can only be a kilogram?  Two pounds for
    the balloon itself, the radio, the batteries, the TV camera and all the
    sensors?  Doesn't sound reasonable.  /jlr

    Re:.22
    	The martian atmosphere has a density comparable to that of Earth's
    atmospher something like 20 miles above the surface. In my dim past I
    was involved in some DoD balloon projects and we could fairly easily
    get our balloons that high. On top of that, Mars has only 38% the
    gravity of Earth so that under identical conditions of atmospheric
    density, one could carry something like 160% more weight on Mars than
    on Earth using identical balloons. So in other words, yes, a balloon on
    Mars WILL work.
    
    				Drew
    

The formula in .-2 works dimensionally (sort of), but not logically.  The amount
that a balloon can lift is measured in weight, not mass.  The formula does not
take gravity into account anywhere.  (Or does it cancel out?  Is the lift lower
under lower gravity as well?)

Burns

    re: .-1
    
    Yes, the gravity cancels out because the buoyancy is determined by the 
    difference in densities between the balloon and the atmosphere, not by
    the absolute density.  The weight of a one kilogram balloon would be
    less on Mars than on Earth, but the weight of the gas it displaces is
    also less.
    
    re: .-2
    
    You're right, the density of air at an altitude of 20 miles is similar
    to that on Mars.  Do you remember how big the balloons were that the
    military was using?  After all, if you scaled this 30' x 10' balloon up
    by a factor of ten in each dimension, it could carry 1000 kg instead of
    1.  The weight of the balloon shell only goes up as the square of the
    balloon size, and the buoyancy goes up as the cube, so bigger is much
    better.  Maybe this 30' x 10' balloon is only a scaled down prototype.
    /jlr

From:	US1RMC::"[email protected]" "John Magliacane"  5-JAN-1994 17:30:05.25
To:	[email protected]
CC:	
Subj:	* SpaceNews 03-Jan-94 *

SB NEWS @ AMSAT $SPC0103 
* SpaceNews 03-Jan-94 *
 
BID: $SPC0103

                               =========
                               SpaceNews
                               =========
 
                        MONDAY JANUARY 3, 1994
 
SpaceNews originates at KD2BD in Wall Township, New Jersey, USA.  It is
published every week and is made available for unlimited distribution.
 
* SUPERPRESSURE BALLOON LAUNCH * 
================================
A cooperative group from Utah State University, Logan, Utah, members
of the Amateur Radio community, and Winzen International plan to
launch SuperBall 1-94 at approximately 10:00 A.M. MST (17:00 UTC) on
January 5, 1994 from the Logan Municipal Airport.  The nylon
superpressure balloon for this flight is 76 feet in diameter and was
manufactured and donated by Winzen International of San Antonio,
Texas.  The expected daytime float altitude of this helium filled
balloon will be 120,000 ft (36,660 meters), with some loss of altitude
expected at night.  Superpressure technology is capable of maintaining
a payload at such an altitude for long periods of time, potentially years. 
 
The initial track of SuperBall will depend on upper air conditions at
the time of launch, but is expected to be in the semicircle east from
Utah. Possible scenarios might then take it over the Atlantic Ocean or
into the polar regions within a few days. 
 
The payload will be limited to a gross weight of 4 kilograms, or 8.8
pounds. It will consist of the following subsystems: 
 
1) An instrument package containing a five channel Magellan GPS
receiver, an external air temperature sensor, an internal payload
temperature sensor, a battery voltage sensor, and a differential
pressure gauge. 
 
2) A 1/2-watt VHF MCW beacon operating on 145.871 MHz with the
callsign N7YTK.  Every minute it will transmit data from instruments
listed above. (This transmitter will also operate through the Russian
RS-10 Amateur satellite, which has a downlink frequency of 29.371 MHz,
plus or minus Doppler.) 
 
3) A one-watt CW 15-meter beacon operating on 21.229 MHz with a call
sign of WB8ELK.  Every five minutes it will transmit data identical to
that sent on the 145.871 MHz beacon.  (This signal will also be
relayed through the Russian RS-12 Amateur satellite, which has a
downlink frequency of 29.429 MHz, plus or minus Doppler.) 
 
4) An ATV system consisting of a black-and-white CCD camera and
associated one-watt transmitter operating on 434.00 MHz in continuous
bursts on command. 
 
5) A cutdown package containing a VHF command receiver, DTMF decoder
and barometric switch, and 
 
6) Several Lithium battery packs.
 
Depending on weight availability, two additional beacons are possible:
 
7) A one-watt VHF AFSK beacon transmitting ASCII data at 1200 baud on
145.968 MHz every two minutes in alteration with the beacon in (2)
above, with the call sign of WB8ELK (also operating through the
Japanese FO-20 satellite, which has a downlink frequency of 435.832
MHz), and 
 
8) A 60-milliwatt 10-meter CW beacon operating on 28.322 MHz every
minute, with a call sign of WB8ELK, transmitting pressure altitude,
internal temperature, external temperature and battery voltage.  Item
(8) will contain either a 9-volt lithium pack that should last a
month, or a 9-volt, 150 ma solar panel, lasting indefinitely. 
 
The purpose of the SuperBall 1-94 mission is to certify this
superpressure balloon technology for long-duration flight and to test
the ability to control and receive data from a high-altitude research
balloon for an extended period of time. 
 
The first plateau of success will be achieved if it is possible to
operate through a complete sunset/sunrise cycle at a constant pressure
altitude. The second plateau will be a flight lasting a week.  The
third plateau will be a complete circumnavigation of the globe. 
Anything after that is gravy. 
 
The float path of the balloon is very difficult to predict since the
polar breakout that usually occurs this time of year frequently
results in strong north-south currents.  Observers from the Jet
Propulsion Laboratory, Martin Marietta and Utah State University's
Space Dynamics Laboratory will be present at the launch.  These people
are potential users of the superpressure balloon for a future Martian
mission. 
 
An HF net will be conducted by John Luker, WB7QBC, (Internet:
[email protected]) on the day of the launch and subsequent
days on 7230 KHz +/- QRM.  This net will alert interested hams
downrange of the balloon's path, and coordinate the collection of
telemetry.  The Utah Balloon Team would appreciate the forwarding of
any telemetry copied to John's address along with pertinent
information, including the receiving station's location, UTC date and
time, signal report, and receiving equipment.  Video tapes of any
received ATV transmissions from the balloon would also be appreciated.
The camera is only expected to be turned on during the first two days
of the mission. 
 
Questions should be directed to Bruce Bergen, KI7OM, via his Internet 
address: [email protected].
 
[Info via N2NRD]
 
* FEEDBACK/INPUT WELCOMED *
===========================
Mail to SpaceNews should be directed to the editor (John, KD2BD) via any
of the following paths:
 
FAX      : 1-908-747-7107
PACKET   : KD2BD @ N2KZH.NJ.USA.NA
INTERNET : [email protected]  -or- [email protected]
 
MAIL     : John A. Magliacane, KD2BD
           Department of Engineering and Technology
           Advanced Technology Center
           Brookdale Community College
           Lincroft, New Jersey  07738
           U.S.A.
 
       <<=- SpaceNews: The first amateur newsletter read in space! -=>> 
 
--
John A. Magliacane, KD2BD   * /\/\ * Voice   : 1-908-224-2948
Advanced Technology Center  |/\/\/\| Packet  : KD2BD @ N2KZH.NJ.USA.NA
Brookdale Community College |\/\/\/| Internet: [email protected]
Lincroft, NJ  07738         * \/\/ * Morse   : -.-  -..  ..---  -...  -..

    
    Can someone explain "superpressure technology"?