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Conference 7.286::space

Title:Space Exploration
Notice:Shuttle launch schedules, see Note 6
Moderator:PRAGMA::GRIFFIN
Created:Mon Feb 17 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:974
Total number of notes:18843

206.0. "1633 Manned Rocket Launching" by EDEN::KLAES (It's only a model!) Fri Aug 15 1986 09:58

    	This article was in the August 15, 1986 edition of Vogon News:
     
    	"Norwegian and Turkish scientists are starting a search for
    a manned rocket launched in 1633 - it was powered by gunpowder and
    is believed to be under the water of the Bosphorus Starits at a
    depth of 100'.  The Turks developed rocket technology in the 15th
    century and the Ottoman Amry had a rocket division."
    
    	Does this mean humanity had flown a man on a rocket almost FOUR
    HUNDRED YEARS EARLIER than previously thought?  Though I doubt the
    early astronaut got anywhere near outer space, the fact that such
    a feat was attempted in the Seventeenth Century is incredible!
    
    	Does anyone know any more information about this Turkish manned
    rocket, and are they any other early examples of manned rocket flight?
    
    	Larry
    
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206.1Heard recently on the radioSKYLAB::FISHERBurns Fisher 381-1466, ZKO1-1/D42Fri Aug 15 1986 10:096
    There was a thing about this yesterday on either All Things Considered
    or Morning Edition.  I missed the beginning, but apparently the
    guy lived.  I, too, don't think he got much distance (but then, neither
    did Goddard on his first).

    Burns
206.2shot from guns!DSSDEV::SAUTERJohn SauterFri Aug 15 1986 16:436
    According to tradition, a favorite method of execution in the late
    middle ages involved tying the person to be executed to the front
    of a cannon, then shooting the cannon.  I imagine that a person
    might fly a considerable distance under these circumstances.
    Would that count?
        John Sauter
206.3OTHER EARLY MANNED ROCKET FLIGHTSEDEN::KLAESIt's only a model!Mon Aug 18 1986 10:4724
    	The two early (pre-1961) manned rocket flights I have read about
    were one in China around 1500 A.D., when a man named Wang Hu (?)
    strapped 47 rockets to a chair, then seated himself in it holding
    two kites in either hand.  At a given signal, attendants lighted
    all the rockets.  All the reports I have read about the results
    of this launch have been varied, but it appears that his rocket
    exploded and Wang Hu did go flying, albiet not as he planned and
    not alive.
    
    	The other attempt took place in Italy in the 1790's.  An Italian
    fireworks rocket manufacturer advertised their rockets by launching
    small animals attached to the rockets and parachuting them safely
    to Earth (one might look upon this as early testing of organisms
    in rocket flight).  The family had even built rockets powerful enough
    to launch a ram!  The police ended these flights when a young boy
    volunteered to be launched on one of the rockets, and they considered
    such a flight too dangerous for a human.
    
    	As I said in .0, any more information on any other pre-Space
    Age manned rocket flights, or more on the 1633 Turkish flight, would
    be greatly appreciated.
    
    	Larry
    
206.4Finally, some real information...MTWAIN::KLAESNo guts, no Galaxy...Mon Jan 30 1989 12:2669
Newsgroups: sci.space
Path: decwrl!labrea!agate!ucbvax!FNAL.BITNET!HIGGINS
Subject: Turks in Space, circa 1633
Posted: 27 Jan 89 23:05:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet
 
    Another recent issue of AEROSPACE HISTORIAN (Fall/September 1988)
had "Birdmen of the Middle East:  Early Attempts at Human Flight," by
Gary Leiser, a USAF historian specializing in Islamic history.  It's a
review of flight legends in the Arabic world, and among other things
it covers an incident not even whispered about in most Western books
on the history of rocketry, space travel, or science fiction. 
 
    Leiser quotes, and so will I, from a seventeenth-century account
by Evilya Chelebi.  This supposedly happened around 1633 in Istanbul.
(Arabic speakers, please pardon my slaughter of the transliterations!)
 
    "This Lagari Hasan had fabricated a seven-cylinder rocket using 50
okkas [about 64 kg] of gunpowder compound.  When the Sultan was at
Saray Point, he got on the rocket and his apprentices lit the fuse of
the rocket. Saying, 'My Sultan, I have recommended you to God. I am
going to speak with the Prophet Jesus,' and, praising and glorifying
God, he made his ascent to the highest heaven... At the roof of the
heavens, the powder of the great rocket was exhausted and when it
descended toward the earth, he opened the eagle wings that he had in
his hands and landed in the water in front of the mansion of Sinan
Pasha.  He swam from there and came naked to the Sultan. He kissed the
ground and began to joke, saying. 'My Sultan, the Prophet Jesus sends
you his regards.'" 
 
    Leiser doesn't believe a word of this, but he says, "Evilya's
account does show that the Turks had the ability to make large
rockets, that some Turks had contemplated human flight by means of
rockets as early as the seventeenth century, and that they may have
even experimented with such a flight." I find it interesting that this
account was written only a few years after Cyrano de Bergerac published 
his own account of rocket-powered spaceflight, in his VOYAGE TO THE MOON. 
 
    This issue also carried an article about the Army Air Corps/USAF
attempts to control erupting volcanoes in Hawaii by bombing to divert
lava flow. 
 
    AIR POWER HISTORIAN (formerly AEROSPACE HISTORIAN)
    $25/year (first two years for price of one for new members) from
    Maj. Gen. Ramsay D. Potts
    Publisher
    Air Force Historical Foundation
    Building 1413, Room 120
    Stop 44
    Andrews AFB, MD 20331

                                   Bill Higgins
                                   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
                                   [email protected]
                                   SPAN/HEPnet: 43011::HIGGINS

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